GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

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Virginia Loy
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Alice Springs, Northern Territory, AUSTRALIA

GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Virginia Loy » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:06 am

Hi
I am researching our Guerin family history and would appreciate any help or direction that anyone could provide.
Patrick, Lawrence, Bridget, John and Catherine GUERIN all migrated on the ship "Hooghly" to South Australia in 1846 from Ireland departing from Cobh.
PATRICK born c 1814 Co Clare, Ireland, died 1900 Hackham, South Australia
married Winifred MULVIHILLE 6 Sep 1847in South Australia,
LAWRENCE born c 1820 in Co Clare, Ireland, died 24 Aug 1906 at Belton, South Australia
married Margaret LARKIN 16 Jun 1850 at Morphett Vale, South Australia
BRIDGET born c 1825 in Co Clare, Ireland, died 6 Feb 1903 in Yass, NSW
married Joseph O'BRIEN 9 Sep 1847 in Adelaide, Sth Australia
JOHN born c 1826 Co Clare, Ireland, died 1 Mar 1878 at Adelaide South Australia
married Bridget Agnes CONLON 11 Mar 1850 at Mt Barker, South Australia
CATHERINE born c 1830 in Co Clare, Ireland, died 2 July 1888 at Golden Point, Victoria
married James McNAMARA 9 Sep 1847 at Adelaide,
Records have indicated that they came from Co Clare in Ireland but I have found no definitive records indicating where in Co Clare.
We know that Catherine and Bridget are sisters and assume that they are all siblings although they may be cousins. Bridget and Catherine's father is recorded as John Guerin and family folklore suggests that their mothers maiden name was RYAN but there is discrepancy as to whether she is Catherine or Bridget.
Another group of Guerins Michael with wife Elizabeth nee GANDY/ GANDLEY and daughter Bridget Anastasia Conlon arrived in South Australia in 1840 on the " Birman" and they came from Kihaska in Co Clare Ireland. These two families certainly were in the same area in South Australia but I am unsure if they were closely related.
Thank you for your help!
Virginia
Any help or direction that you may be able to provide is much appreciated.
Have a great day!!

Margaret
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:31 am

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Margaret » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:43 am

My great grandmother was a Margaret Guerin who married a Robert Guerin 21st July 1867 (nee O'brien) from Moynoe Clare .Margaret Guerin died July 9th 1924 .They had 7 children Kate, Ellen ,John 1872 , Mary , Robert , Eliza and Julia.... before that she was married to John O'brien a they had 6 children. My great grandfather was Michael who came to NZ. :D

Virginia Loy
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Alice Springs, Northern Territory, AUSTRALIA

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Virginia Loy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:17 am

Hi Margaret
I was interested to read your post and have noted your family names.
It is interesting to note that my Bridget Guerin married a Joseph O' Brien here in South Australia. Often members of the same family migrated to different countries and New Zealand is very close to Australia!! I don't have any Robert's in my earlier Guerin ancestry but I will post again if I find a connection.
Happy family researching!!
Virginia
Any help or direction that you may be able to provide is much appreciated.
Have a great day!!

Jimbo
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Jimbo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:17 am

Hi Virginia,

Your request for information on the Guerins of County Clare is a bit of a "cold case". In the last 10 years a lot of Irish records have become available, including the transcriptions of the Tulla baptism records by Sheila on this forum, that might help solve this mystery. I had a theory, a poor theory, that the Gorman surname of Tulla may have morphed from the Guerin surname. Part of my reasoning was the Guerins of Tulla have mostly disappeared from the later Tulla parish registers. Again, this is incorrect, but in my search of the Guerin surname I came upon your posting which linked back (possibly) to the Guerin's of Tulla who have gone missing.

I believe your ancestors came from Rosslara and Lismeehan area of Tulla Parish. I only found Catherine Guerin in the baptism records. However, two siblings would have been baptized prior to 1819 (start of the register), and two others were born in years that the pages are missing from the register. The real clincher was the sibling Laurence Guerin who went to South Australia. I didn't find his baptism record, but I believe he is named after his Uncle Laurence Guerin who had five children baptized in the Tulla baptism records, and likely more as many pages are missing from the 1820's.

And this is key to providing further evidence of this theory: did any of the five Guerin children who left County Clare for South Australia name a son Dennis?

One issue with this theory is that on Australian death records for your Irish immigrants the father was listed as "John". You might consider though that it appears likely that their father died in Ireland prior to five Guerin's immigrating to Australia in 1846. You stated that the death records of the sisters who died in 1888 and 1903 reported "John". Could their descendants have reported their uncle "John" who died in 1878 by mistake?

Another thing to consider is that the Guerin's listed in the below family tree for Denis Guerin and Catherine Molony don't appear to have remained in Tulla parish - they are not reported in later Tulla marriage and baptism records. Where did they go?

Especially if your family has used the name "Dennis" I would highly recommend researching Australian records to see if more family members arrived in Australia.

Lismeehan is now known as "Maryfort" or "Mary Fort" on maps and records. It is home of the O'Callaghan Estate, here is more on that:

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _house.htm

In the below family tree, I included the information you provided on the five Guerin's who immigrated to Australia with the four recorded in the Tulla baptism records (only one overlap), plus added a first born son Dennis, named after their possible father "Denis Gueran" reported in the 1827 Tithe Applotment books for Rosslara.

"Denis Gueran" of 1827 Tithe Applotment Books for Rosslara: either the father of Denis and Laurence Guerin, or the Denis Guerin married to Catherine Moloney

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... la_tab.htm

1.0 Denis Guerin
(likely born in 1790's) and Catherine Molony (likely born in 1790's) have four children recorded in the Tulla baptism register between 1821 and 1830. However, they most likely married prior to 1819 (start of the Tulla parish records) and have other children (including your Patrick and Laurence?). Also, the Tulla baptism register has many missing pages during the 1820's where other Guerin children would have been recorded (including your Bridget and John?):

............ 1.1 Denis Guerin??? (about 1816?)
............ 1.2 Patrick Guerin (about 1817?) married Winifred Mulvihille 6 Sep 1847 in South Australia, died 1900 in Hackham, South Australia
............ 1.3 Laurence Guerin (about 1818?) married Margaret Larkin 16 Jun 1850 at Morphett Vale, SA died 24 Aug 1906 at Belton, SA
............ 1.4 Mary Guerin (baptized 26 March 1819, residence Ruslara), baptism sponsors Laurence Guerin, Mary Dugan
............ 1.5 Susanna Guerin (baptized 4 August 1821, residence Ruslara), baptism sponsors Daniel Doyle, Catherine Griffey
............ 1.? missing baptism register (March 1822 through August 1825)
............ 1.6 Bridget Guerin (about 1822?) married Joseph O'Brien 9 Sep 1847 in Adelaide, SA,
died 6 Feb 1903 in Yass, NSW
............ 1.? missing baptism register (June 1826 through May 1827)
............ 1.7 John Guerin (about 1826?) married Bridget Agnes Conlon 11 Mar 1850 at Mt Barker, South Australia, died 1 Mar 1878 at Adelaide South Australia
............ 1.8 Martin Guerin (baptized 5 November 1828, residence Ruslara), baptism sponsors John Keefe, Bridget McNamara
............ 1.9 Catherine Guerin (baptized 16 June 1830, residence Ruslara), baptism sponsor M(?)y Leo. Catherine married James McNamara on 9 Sep 1847 at Adelaide, died 2 July 1888 at Golden Point, Victoria


2.0 Laurence Guerin (likely born in 1790's) of Lismeehan married Honora McNamara (likely born in 1790's) of Lismeehan on 4 October 1819 at Tulla Parish; witnesses Martin Cunningham of Glandree, Thomas Fahey of Glandree, Margaret McNamara of Lismeehan.

............ 2.1 Mary Guerin (baptized 18 August 1820 in Ruslara)
............ 2.? missing baptism register (March 1822 through August 1825)
............ 2.? missing baptism register (June 1826 through May 1827)
............ 2.2 Denis Guerin (baptized 26 December 1830 in Cragroe) sponsor Anne Grady. Possibly Dennis Gerin who married Margaret Griffy on 4 February 1856 at Tulla Parish.
............ 2.3 Bridget Guerin (baptized 7 February 1834 in Cragroe) sponsor Michael Howard
............ 2.4 Margaret Guerin (baptized 18 December 1838 in Cragroe) sponsor Anna Cavanagh
............ 2.5 Nory Guerin (baptized December 1839 in Cragroe) Nelly Keliher

A Johanna Guerin of Maryfort married Bartholomew McNamara on 22 July 1859 at Tulla Parish. Johanna might have been baptized on a missing Tulla register page in 1841.

Virginia, in the last 10 years have you made any progress on the James McNamara who married Catherine Guerin in Australia? If your ancestors are indeed from Lismeehan as I suspect, then there is a good chance that this James McNamara might be related to the Honora McNamara of Lismeehan who married Laurence McNamara in Tulla in 1819 - perhaps a nephew?

Virginia Loy
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Alice Springs, Northern Territory, AUSTRALIA

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Virginia Loy » Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:40 am

Hi Jimbo
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I am sorry that I only recently saw your post.
I know very little about James McNamara who married Catherine Guerin. He perhaps had a brother John but it is unproven. Unfortunately their marriage does not record parents.Their first child was Dennis McNamara born 1848 Black Forest South Australia died 1916 Sydney New South Wales. His third son was named Daniel Denis but called Vincent!!!James Mc and Catherine Guerin’s other sons were Michael, John, James, Lawrence, Edward, Patrick, James, Thomas, Daniel, Peter so all of Catherine’s brothers who came with her to Australia were covered ( Patrick, John and Lawrence)
Do you know if there are accessible records of application for passage?
All of my Guerin records just say Co Clare as a place of origin.
If you send me vloy@astravel.com.au your email I’ll send you a copy of the Guerin approval for passage letter.
Both Bridget Guerin and Catherine Guerin’s death registrations record father as John. Informants were Catherine’s youngest daughter Sarah Jane McN and Bridget Guerin’s informant was her middle daughter Catherine. Whilst I appreciate that death registration information is only as good as the informants oral history knowledge Bridget Guerin (O’Brien) s death registration is quite informative specifying from Co Clare, 6 years in South Australia, 21 years in Victoria and 20 years in New South Wales. Bridget Guerin’s first son is John which fits with her father being John, Patrick Guerin only had one son named John.Lawrence Guerins first child was John and John Guerin’s first son was a James but second son John so I think that the Hooghly Guerins father was John Guerin.
Once again thank you
Virginia
Any help or direction that you may be able to provide is much appreciated.
Have a great day!!

Jimbo
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by Jimbo » Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:02 am

Hi Virginia,

No need to apologize. My last posting from 2019 was a decade after your original posting. It would have been better form on my part if I had sent you a message that your thread had been updated.

If I was writing to you today with the theory that your Guerins might have been from Tulla parish, I would be a lot less confident. A "remote responsibility" would be my description. It was the name "Lawrence" that got me thinking there might be a connection. And I suspect a thorough research of the Irish civil records, particularly the death records which have come on-line, might disprove my Rosslara theory altogether.

Since you posted in 2008 there is a lot more information available on-line. Especially helpful would be the available baptism and marriage registers for Clare which have now been transcribed my a team of volunteers (Sheila, Sharon, Murf et al) and are at the Clare Library website, see link below. You mentioned other Geurins who immigrated to Australia were from Kihaska townland. I had to look that up in a listing of Clare townlands to learn that this is in Corrofin parish in Killaloe diocese. From the Clare library website it looks like Corrofin/Kilnaboy has baptism records starting 1819-1881:

https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/libra ... ecords.htm

And if you haven't already, search the Guerin surname on Griffith Valuation on the askaboutireland website. Then go back to see what church records are available. Or, since your ancestors left in 1846, just check every baptism register from County Clare, sorted by father's name, as there aren't that many with records from the first decades of the 1800's:

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

Regarding your question, I'm not sure what records are available from the 1840's for application for passage. I wasn't aware that early free immigrants in the 1840's to Australia had any records other than the passenger listing. Perhaps others on this forum can provide more help with this.

I did do a search of "Guerin" on the British Newspaper Archives. Discovered a few both for a "Denis", but the search was for "Guerin". I don't believe either would be connected to your family, but perhaps might be of interest to other Guerin researchers:

1) A long listing of names from 1839, all stating that they were "ten pound" leaseholders, I believe to register to vote, included a Denis Guerin from Glandree. (source: Clare Journal, and Ennis Advertiser, 20 September 1839)

2) Another reference to a Denis Guerin in an 1861 obituary who moved from Ennis to Geelong. Not clear how many years this Guerin had been in Australia:
OBITUARY NOTICE.—On the 20th March [1861], at Batesord, Geelong, Mr. Denis Guerin, late of this town [Ennis]. The deceased was at one time connected with the CLARE JOURNAL, and, from the fact of his unobtrusive and unassuming character, he was respected by all those who were acquainted with him. He subsequently emigrated to Australia, where he became proprietor of the Derwent Hotel, Batesford, and was eminently successful in life. The news of his death will be received with regret by his numerous friends in Ennis. The Geelong Advertiser makes the following complimentary observations, in recording his decease:—"Yesterday, the mortal remains of Mr. Denis Guerin, proprietor of the Derwent Hotel, Batesford, were conveyed to their last home. To show the respect in which the deceased was held, it is only necessary to state, that the hearse was followed by over fifty vehicles, and a large cavalcade of horses."

Clare Journal, and Ennis Advertiser, Thursday, 23 May 1861
Virginia, best of luck with your research.

kbarlow
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Re: GUERINS Co Clare to South Australia 1846

Post by kbarlow » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:10 am

I have a Hehir relation in SA who married a Phyllis Monica Guerin, related to the John Guerin on "Hoogly". There were Guerins (Michael & wife, nee Ganly according to your info) on the Birman, whom I believe were related to the Hoogly Guerins. The Birman ship was commissioned by the famous Captain Bagot (land agent for Bindon Blood) who brought many Clare families (who had possibly been asked to clear their tenancies) with him on that ship. Bagot lived at Rockforest, civil parish of Kilkeedy. A lot of the Clare people brought with him worked on his large property near Kapunda or in his copper mine nearby. I think I have traced the Guerins to the RC parish of Rath/Killinaboy using the Ganly connection. There is a John Guerin in the Tithe App Book (their father?) at Knocknaslinna (Rath) near townland Cahaska (renting from Neptune Blood, Esq), with a Denis Ganly & John Costello also there. By the time of the Griffiths Val, this townland I believe then called Kihaska (just SW of Corrofin).
Let me know what you make of my surmising!

Kerry

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