Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:31 am

Hi Jim

In your last posting above (page 5) you wrote:
A few months back now (see page 4) you pondered where Michael Considine might have lived in Ennis and the location of his newsstand. In a letter written in 1873 to the Clare Journal, Michael Considine appears to have identified his ancestors as having lived in a house on Church Street in Ennis. Whether or not he ever lived there or was closely related to the Considine family living there in the 1860's and 1870's, is not very clear.
You go on to quote a piece from “Inchiquin, County Clare” by Dr. George U. Macnamara, in which he quotes from letter by Michael Considine published in the Clare Journal of January 10th, 1873. In that letter to the Clare Journal, Considine speaks of past times, and says, among other things:
"Patrick Sarsfield, passing from Aughrim to Limerick, slept in the house of Mr. J. Considine, Victualler, Church-street, which was a hotel at the time [the 17th century]. When that house was being repaired a few years ago there was found, in the old wall, a bill against Patrick Sarsfield for a dinner, bed, and breakfast, together with the brass barrel of a gun. It is to be regretted that those who found them did not place the proper value upon them, and preserve them."

"Inchiquin, County Clare" by Dr. George U. MacNamara (1837-1919), from The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquarians of Ireland, Volume XXXI (1901), footnote 6, pages 216-217,
Jim, in my opinion Michael Considine was not claiming (in that letter at least) to be related either to Mr. J. Considine, Victualler, or to Patrick Sarsfield. I think he was just saying where Sarfield was supposed to have stayed when going from Aughrim to Limerick. I’ve been looking at A Broad History of a Narrow Street: Abbey Street – Ennis, by Brian Spring, and see that on page 6, under the subheading “Folklore”, he says,
A bill charging Patrick Sarsfield for dinner, bed and breakfast along with the brass barrel of a pistol is reputed to have been found in the building 31-35 Abbey Street (Clare Journal, Christmas Supplement, 1873).
Later in the book, Brian Spring explains that the present day numbers 31, 33 and 35 were just one building at the time of Griffith’s Valuation. They were lot 15. The landlord at the time of Griffiths was Michael Finucane (Reps of) and John Considine was one of four tenants. This John Considine was the victualler and his son Michael and grandson John continued the business at 31 Abbey St. I think that when Michael Considine was relating the story of the bill and the gun barrel, he was just making it clear to the readers where those items were said to have been found. At the time that Brian Springs book was published (2013), Considines butcher shop (or “stall” as we used to say when I was young) had become Abracadabra – I don’t know what business is there now.

I think it would be a mistake to take from Considine’s letter that he and John Considine, Victualler, were related to each other.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Jimbo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:17 am

Hi Sheila,

The evidence that Michael Considine (1812 - 1884), shoemaker and secretary of the Trades, had a connection to John Considine of Church Street, or at least to this residence, was the 2014 Clare Champion article as I had noted directly after the Dr. G U MacNamara article (which quoted the Michael Considine letter).
The 2014 Clare Champion article "The man who helped O'Connell reign above Ennis" also mentioned that Michael Considine's "proud boast of the fact that Sarsfield had lodged with one of his ancestors was characteristic of the man."
https://astheywere.blogspot.com/2014/04 ... otten.html
Sheila, you introduced this article in your very first posting on Michael Considine. You noted that this article was written by local historian Larry Brennan, but since the article refers to Mr. Brennan in the third person, I don't think that is accurate. It is not very clear who wrote this article that refers to Michael Considine's nickname of "Dirty Mick" having a "romantic origin", the same term used by Bernard H Becker in "Disturbed Ireland" of 1881/1882.

I reread my last posting, and my conclusion was that for the various John Considine's presented on page 5 we don't know how or if they would be related to Michael Considine, the shoemaker — based upon the evidence presented to date. My top choice was John Considine, the news agent. Not John Considine, the victualler.

But your recent posting, the one that included the paragraph by Kieran Sheedy in The Clare Elections, has provided an important new clue. This has led me to reevaluate who was the John Considine reported as an 1841 repeal warden and who in 1844 wore a repeal button into the Ennis Saving Bank during the so called "button war". While this new clue might not resolve any family relationships of Michael Considine, it might take us a step closer:
Nominations for the borough election [of 1852] took place on Saturday 10 July. It was the first time that the new Courthouse was used for an election……In his speech, a somewhat defensive O Gorman Mahon accused Dean Kenny of “doing him grievous harm” and denied that he had adopted an anti-Catholic stance in Parliament, and he also strenuously denied rumours to the effect that he has spent two nights in an Ennis brothel. He claimed to have visited only the houses of John Considine and William Lardner and he pointedly asked Dean Kenny, “Which of these is a brothel?"
The John Considine who was one of the electors of Ennis invited to a meeting on 21 March 1859 to protest the burning of the effigy of the Righ Hon. J.D. Fitzgerald, was reported as being from Church Street. So this Ennis elector is definitely the victualler of Church Street, and son-in-law of William Rickards. William Lardner was also one of the electors invited to the meeting. I believe the electors of Ennis would all be considered "highly respectable gentlemen".

In April 1841, the list of repeal wardens (see page 4) was made up of the "respectable inhabitants" of Ennis and included both John Considine and William Lardner. Sheila, I agree with you that John Considine, along with fellow repeal warden William Lardner, were the same men as the Ennis electors from 1859. Previously, I thought the repeal warden was the news agent John Considine who got into trouble for selling the Irish People newspaper - but this is unlikely. It is not clear how old John Considine, the victualler from Church Street, would have been in 1841. Two men in 1875 named John Considine died in Ennis; one at the age of 60 and the other at 74, but the death records are not yet available. John Considine, the victualler, could have been born about 1801 or 1815; either way he would have been old enough to be one of the repeal wardens in 1841. A William Lardner, merchant, died in Ennis in 1872 at the age of 72, so born about 1800.

The John Considine who was the repeal warden in 1841 was likely the same John Considine, "highly respectable shopkeeper" and "staunch Repealer", who in 1844 wore a repeal button at the Ennis Savings Bank and was vice-president of the temperance society.

The O'Gorman Mahon in 1852 visited the homes of John Considine and William Lardner. These two men were also likely the same two repeal wardens in 1841 as well as Ennis electors in 1859.

Other evidence that John Considine, the victualler from Church street and Ennis elector, was highly respectable was the fact that in 1858 he married Susan Rickards, the daughter of the wealthy merchant and highly respectable William Rickards of Ennis.

In the 1881 Slater's Directory, William Rickards, Mill Street, was reported as a flour merchant. William Rickards was a substantial property owner in Ennis; the Rickards family estate papers are part of the McMahon Collection at the County Clare archives (pages 123 to 127):

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/archiv ... ection.pdf

Sheila, while you are correct in stating that there are not enough early church records in the parish of Drumcliff to determine some family relationships, there are newspaper articles and probate records. Catherine Rickards, of Mill Street, married, age 60, died on 14 November 1878. William Rickards, widower, wool merchant, of Mill Street, died on 24 June 1891 at the age of 84; informant Stephen Fitzgerald. The will of William Rickards would end up in a probate court in 1894 and provides details on his surviving children, two of whom married a Considine:

In the Probate and Matrimonial Division yesterday (before Judge Warren without a jury), the case of Considine v Rickards came on for hearing. The action was one brought to establish the solemn form the will, dated 8th August 1890, of the late William Rickards, who had carried on business in Mill street, in the town of Ennis, and who died at an advanced age in the month of June, '91. Probate of the will was granted in the same year in common form, and now, owing to an allegation that an alteration was made in the will by one of the legatees, it was sought to prove it in solemn form. The deceased started business in Ennis as a wool and skin merchant, and had amassed a considerable wealth before his death, and was the owner of some house property in the town of Ennis. At his death, the testator had surviving him three daughters and one son, and also the children of a daughter who predeceased him. The son, William Rickards, is the defendant in the present suit, and alleged that he was left by his father's will an annuity of £150 a year, but the figure was altered subsequent to his father's death so as to reduce his annuity to £100 a year. He now sought to have the will established with what he declared was the original figure in it.

Mr. Wright, Q C; Mr Seymour Bushe, Q C; and Mr W F Kenny appeared for the plaintiff [should be plural, the surviving Rickards sisters].

For the defendants [should be singular, the son, William Rickards], the Right Hon John Atkinson, Q C, and Dr Littledale (instructed by Mr. Denning).

Mr. Wright, Q C, in stating the case, said that the daughter Margaret Considine, the principal plaintiff, had been on the most intimate and affectionate terms with her father, and [with] another daughter [Mary Anne Rickards, not married as of 1891] had lived with him [on Mill Street] up to the time of his death ["Margaret Considine" was clearly a mistake, the affectionate daughter was Elizabeth Rickards Considine of Mill Street]. The third daughter was married [Margaret Rickards Nash of Dublin], the fourth daughter was also married, but had predeceased her father [Susan Rickards Considine died in 1881]. She, however, left some children surviving [including Michael Considine, the victualler], and these with the testator's own children were named legatees in the will. The son was of intemperate habits, and his father proposed only to leave him £50 a year, but he subsequently altered that to £100 at the request of Mrs [Elizabeth] Considine.

Mrs Considine, examined, said she saw her father's will when it was returned from the solicitor's office. Her father read it over and said Mr Daly had made a mistake in putting £150 a year for his son, Wm Considine [this should state Rickards], as £50 would be quite enough for him to spend in drink. Witness said that £50 a year would be very little, and said he should make it £100, and her father took the will to the lawyers to have it altered. He also agreed to give one of her sisters, Mrs [Margaret] Nash, £200 instead of £100 at witness's request. She had often heard her father complain of her brother's intemperate habits. The will was drawn up by an attorney's clerk named Daly, since deceased. The will, when completed, was to given to witness to keep. She sealed it up before her father's death and gave it to Mr Bunting, solicitor, to take charge of. She never altered the will or got anyone else to alter it. The best proof that she had not interfered with the will was that she herself did not get one shilling under it up to the present.

Cross-examined by Dr Littledale — She could not say whether her brother saw the will, but he heard it read in Mr. Bunting's office. She did not know why no action had been taken up till now.

Dr. Thomas Coghlan, Ennis, deposed to the execution of the will by the testator. He signed the will as witness.

To Dr Littledale — He would not swear whether the alterations in the will were there when he signed it, as he did not read it, but just signed his name.

Mr. J H Harvey, Clerk of the Crown for Clare, identified the handwriting in the will as that of Patrick Daly, and said that Daly was in the habit of sending in documents to the Crown Office on which there were alterations made with chloride of lime or other acid, and he had remonstrated with him on the practice.

Mr. Wright said he had examined the alteration in the attestation clause of the will with a magnifying glass, and the word obliterated was "thereof," which it appeared the draftsman had written twice by mistake. Acid of some kind was used in the obliteration.

Dr Littledale, for the defendant, argued that the alteration in the will was not properly testified, and that his client [William Rickards] was entitled to the amount mentioned in the will prior to the alteration. He would not call any witnesses, because his client had relied on the evidence which would be given by Daly, who unfortunately had died on the 10th of the present month [per civil record, Patrick Daly, of the Causeway, Ennis, occupation clerk, died at age 75 of influenza and senile decay]. At all events, he would urge that the case was one in which investigation was necessary, and that his client should not be ordered to pay costs.

His Lordship made an order directing probate of the will to issue in solemn form. No order was made as to costs.

The Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 1 December 1894
William Rickards and Catherine Doherty of Mill Street had at least ten children in Ennis. I found it interesting researching an Ennis family of the merchant class. The Rickards family was very wealthy, and unlike the children of farmers or laborers who were likely to immigrate to America or Australia, several descendants left Ennis for Dublin. Also, their marriage partners appeared frequently to be of the same merchant class. Three grandchildren of William Rickards would marry into other flour merchant or victualler families.

Very likely, the John Considine married to Susan Rickards was a brother of Patrick Considine married to Elizabeth Rickards. Both men named their first born sons Michael Considine. Their occupations of victualler and cattle dealer would have been complimentary. Whether or not John and Patrick were brothers, their children were definitely first cousins since Susan Rickards and Elizabeth Rickards were sisters.

1.0 Susan Rickards was born about 1840, prior to the start of the Ennis baptism register in March 1841. Susan Rickards and John Considine, both of Ennis, married on 14 September 1858 at Ennis; witnesses Edward Sheehan and Mary Molony. In the 1870 Slater's Directory for Ennis, John Considine of Church Street was listed as a butcher. Two men named John Considine died in 1875 in Ennis, but civil death records are not yet available. In the 1881 Slater's Directory, Susan Considine of Church Street was reported as a butcher. Susan Considine, Church Street, widow of a butcher, age 40, died on 25 April 1881 by "visitation of God"; informant John Cullinan, Ennis coroner.

............ 1.1 Mary Catherine Considine baptized 18 December 1859, Church Street; sponsors Patrick Considine and Lizzie Rickards.

............ 1.2 Michael Considine baptized 11 September 1861, Church Street; sponsors Catherine Rickards and William Rickards. In 1882, the young victualler Michael Considine was returning to Ennis when he came upon John Delahunty who had been shot near Knockanean National School; he provided important testimony at the inquest and special investigation prior to the trial of Francis Hynes. Michael Considine, Church Street, butcher, son of John Considine (deceased, butcher) married Margaret Baker, of Barefield, daughter of Daniel Baker (farmer), on 29 April 1907; witnesses Thomas Duggan, Delia Frances O'Halloran. <Ennis, House 12 Church Street; House 31 Abbey Street>
......................... 1.2.1 John Considine (age 3 in 1911)
......................... 1.2.2 Patrick Considine (age 1 in 1911)

............ 1.3 Ellen Margaret Considine baptized 9 October 1863, Church Street; sponsors John Spellisy and Mary MacMahon. Died prior to 1867.

............ 1.4 Susanna Considine baptized 24 May 1865, Church Street; sponsors John Spellesy and Bid Finn. Married to Martin Stanislaus Honan, Flour Merchant, Jail Street, on 14 June 1887 in Ennis. <Ennis, House 32 Gaol Street; House 35 O'Connell Street>. Seven of nine children living in 1911.

............ 1.5 Ellen Considine baptized 9 April 1867, Church Street; sponsors John Cleary and Mary McMahon.

............ 1.6 John Considine baptized 9 July 1869, Church Street; sponsors James Ryan, and Mary Ann Rickards.

............ 1.7 Elizabeth Considine baptized 11 July 1871, Church Street; sponsors John McInerny and Margaret McMahon. Elizabeth Considine, of Ennis, daughter of John Considine, victualler, married John Butler, of Limerick, son of William Butler, victualler on 14 November 1893 at Ennis; witnesses J H Peel and K Considine.

............ 1.8 Frances Mary Considine baptized 17 September 1875, Church Street; sponsors Michael Considine, and Mary Kate Considine (most likely elder siblings of Frances Mary). Died 15 February 1881, age 5; informant mother Susan Considine (who died two months later).

2.0 Elizabeth Rickards, most likely born about 1840, prior to start of Ennis baptism register in March 1841. Her age of 55 years (born about 1846) in the 1901 census was clearly understated given her marriage in 1860. "Eliza Rickers" and Patrick Considine, both of Ennis, married on 25 November 1860 at Ennis; witnesses John McGrath and Mary Molony. In the 1881 Ennis Directory, Patrick Considine was listed as a cattle dealer. Patrick Considine, grocer, Mill Street, age 57 years, died on 17 March 1887; informant son Michael Considine. <Ennis, No. 2 Urban, House 9 Mill Street; House 14 Parnell Street>

............ 2.1 Ellen "Helena" Considine, baptized 17 February 1863, Mill Street; sponsors William Rickards and Kate Rickards. <Ennis, House 9 Mill Street; House 14 Parnell Street> Helena Considine, 15 Parnell Street, shopkeeper, age 77, died on 2 February 1943; informant J. Considine of 15 Parnell Street.

............ 2.2 Michael Considine, baptized 9 January 1866, Mill Street; sponsors William Rickards and Mary Anne Rickards. Michael Considine, shopkeeper, merchant of Ennis, son of Patrick Considine (dead), married Lily Cronin, of Ennis, daughter of James Cronin (dead, previously a victualler), on 25 April 1894 at Ennis Chapel; witnesses M J (blurry) and Helena A Considine. <Ennis, House 8 Gaol Street; House 24 O'Connell Street> Michael Considine was not living with his family at the 1901 census, but was living in Doonbeg, occupation shop keeper and cattle dealer, married, age 35.
......................... 2.2.1 Patrick Considine (age 16 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.2 Mary Considine (age 14 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.3 Margaret Considine (age 13 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.4 Catherine Considine (age 11 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.5 Ellen Considine (age 10 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.6 Veronica Considine (age 5 in 1911)
......................... 2.2.7 Francis Considine (age 3 in 1911)

............ 2.3 Patrick Rickards Considine, baptized 9 January 1870, Mill Street; sponsors John Considine and Margaret Rickards. <Ennis, House 9 Mill Street; House 14 Parnell Street>. Patrick Rickards Considine, Church Street, bachelor, merchant, age 60, died 17 April 1930; informant Louis O'Dea present at death O'Connell Street.

............ 2.4 Kate Considine, baptized 11 June 1872, Mill Street; sponsors Cornelius Nash (husband of Margaret Rickards) and Susan Considine. <Ennis, House 9 Mill Street; House 14 Parnell Street>. Kate Considine, Parnell Street, shopkeeper, age 56 (more like 64?), died on 25 August 1936; informant J. Considine, nephew of deceased.

............ 2.5 Mary Margaret Considine, baptized 12 May 1877; sponsors John Joseph Ryan and Helena Rickards.

3.0 Catherine Rickards, baptized 12 January 1842; sponsors Edward Doherty and Susan Carrole. Catherine Rickards, of Ennis, age 23, daughter of William Rickards (butter buyer), married Patrick Culleeny (or Culliny?), age 27, a draper, of America, son of Michael Culleeny, a draper, on 1 October 1868 at Ennis; witnesses Patk O'Brien and Susan M Crowe. Appears to have died prior to 1891 death of father William Rickards, as not listed in the will. Her husband at their 1868 marriage was reported as being "of America", perhaps this couple immigrated to the United States?

4.0 James Rickards, baptized 29 July 1844, sponsors Richard Malony and Mary Coyle(?). Appears to have died prior to 1891 death of father William Rickards, as not listed in the will.

5.0 Margaret Rickards, baptized 3 June 1850, Mill Street; sponsors James Flanagan and Mary Molony. Margaret Rickards, of Ennis, age 22, daughter of William Rickards (merchant), married Cornelius Nash (age 54 in 1901; age 64 in 1911), of Ennis, age 25, accountant, son of James Nash (merchant) on 23 April 1872 at Ennis; witnesses Daniel J Cullou (sp?) and Minnie (sp?) Carroll. The Nash family would first move to Limerick and by 1901 to Dublin; the occupation of Cornelius Nash was "wine merchant" in 1901 and "commission agent" in 1911. <Palmerston Road, Rathmines & Rathgar East, Dublin, House 337; Kenilworth Square, Dublin, House 82> Margaret Rickards Nash (age 50 in 1901) died prior to 1911.
............ 5.1 Cornelius Nash (age 29 in 1901, born in Ennis)
............ 5.2 James Nash (age 24 in 1901, born in Limerick City)
............ 5.3 Mary Nash (age 22 in 1901, born in Limerick City)
............ 5.4 William Nash (age 20 in 1901, born in Dublin)
............ 5.5 Helena Nash (age 28 in 1911) - where in 1901?
............ 5.6 Margaret Nash (age 23 in 1911) - where in 1901?
............ 5.7 Joseph Nash (age 12 in 1901, born in Dublin)

6.0 William Rickards, baptized 10 August 1852, of Mill Street; sponsors Richard (?) Molony and Margaret Molony. William Rickards, landlord, Ennis, son of Wm Rickards (deceased, land proprietor) married Harrietta Hoystal, of Clare Street, Limerick, daughter of Frederick Hoystal (deceased, miner), at Limerick Cathedral on 27 February 1892. <Aughrim Steet, Arran Quay, Dublin, House 26; House 26>. 1901 occupation "living on annuity".
............ 6.1 Frederick William Rickards (age 17 in 1911, born in Dublin City)

7.0 Edward Rickards, baptized 5 February 1855, of Mill Street; sponsors Pat'k Duffy and Anne Halloran. Appears to have died prior to 1891 death of father William Rickards, as not listed in the will.

8.0 John Thomas Rickards, baptized 18 November 1857, of Mill Street; sponsors William (?) Ryan and Susan Rickards. Appears to have died prior to 1891 death of father William Rickards, as not listed in the will.

9.0 Ellen Rickards, baptized 24 February 1863, of Mill Street; sponsors Patt Considine (husband of Eliza Rickards) and Mary Anne Rickards (most likely an older sister - see below). "Helena" Rickards was a baptism sponsor for niece Mary Margaret Considine in 1877. Appears to have died prior to 1891 death of father William Rickards, as not listed in the will.

10.0 Mary Anne Rickards [late edit; not in correct birth order], unknown baptism, most likely prior to 1841. First appears as baptism sponsor for younger sister Ellen Rickards in 1863, and for nephew Michael Considine in 1866. Upon death of father William Rickards, Mary Anne Rickards is listed as secondary beneficiary, with sister Eliza Considine as primary beneficiary. Appears to have been the unmarried daughter living with her father William Rickards at Mill Street in 1891, as referred to in the Freeman's Journal article "A County Clare Will Case" of 1894. Mary Anne Rickards, of Ennis, daughter of William Rickards (deceased merchant), married Patrick Tracey, of Ennis, widower, son of Patrick Tracey (deceased merchant), on 17 January 1894 at the Roman Catholic chapel of Ennis; witnesses Michael Considine and Margaret Walsh.

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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:26 am

Hi Jim

That is really wonderful work, especially on the Rickards family, but also on Patrick Considine of Mill St (later Parnell Street), whose public house is still there to the good, and on John Considine of Church Street (later Abbey St.). Whether Patrick and John are related to each other is not certain as you say (the family burial place of the Church Street Considines is Corrovorrin, while the family burial place of the Mill Street Considines is Drumcliff), but their wives were sisters, Susan and Eliza Rickards.
I think the John Considine who died in 1875 aged 60 must be the John Considine who was married Susan Rickards. If he was the John Considine who died in 1875 aged 74, he would be older than his father-in-law, William Rickards, who was born about 1807.
Some of the wills made by the Considines, both Mill/Parnell Street and Church/Abbey St. are in this list donated by Tom McDowell: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... lendar.htm, but John’s will is not among them (maybe he did not make one).
As you have shown, the Considines of 24 O’Connell Street are the same family as the Mill/Parnell Street Considines. The O’Connell Street pub became Hogans and then Brogans (now a restaurant and pub). But the public house in Mill/Street went to a son of the Michael Considine who was in O’Connell Street, so you could say they returned to their original place. The Louis O’Dea who reported the death of Kate Considine, was the husband of her O’Connell street niece, Mary Frances Considine. The marriage record for this couple (12 Jan. 1921) gives his name as John O’Dea for some reason, but the notice in the Clare Champion gives it as Louis: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... 4_n_od.htm
Here is something that puzzles me: Mary Margaret Considine, one of the daughters of Patrick Considine and Eliza Rickard of Mill/Parnell Street, was born in 1877 and died in 1879, aged 2. A headstone in Drumcliff is inscribed: "Erected by Patrick Considine Ennis in memory of his daughter Mary Margaret Considine. May she rest in peace amen. Born May 10th 1876. Died July 19th 1879". I assume from this that this grave is the burial place of the Mill Street Considines. Yet, when Michael Considine of O’Connell Street died in 1935, his death notice said that the funeral was to the family vault in Drumcliff graveyard. Does this mean that the Considine vault in Drumcliff dates only from 1935?
Jim, it was interesting to read about the will of William Rickards. As you say, his son-in-law Patrick Considine of Mill/Parnell Street died in 1887 aged 50. So Patrick was born about 1830 - about 15 years later than John Considine in Church/Abbey Street – if that John is the John who died in 1875 aged 60. It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that they were brothers, but I think we will never know. Patrick Considine’s will is listed in the Calendar of Wills: http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchiv ... _00438.pdf.
Patrick's son, Patrick Rickards Considine died in 1930, aged 60. He had remained unmarried. Patrick's daughter Catherine (Kate) died in 1936, aged 56, and his daughter Helena died in 1943, aged 77. The record of Helena’s death gives her address as 15 Parnell Street. Catherine and Helena had remained unmarried. An obituary for Kate (Kitty) was published in the Clare Champion on 29 Aug 1936. For anyone interested in Ennis of the 1930s, I give the mourners here:
Death of Miss Kitty Considine, Parnell St., Ennis.
The death took place on Monday last of Miss Catherine (Kitty) Considine at her residence, Parnell St., Ennis and evoked general regret….funeral to Drumcliffe …Chief mourners: Miss Helena Considine (sister), Mrs. Louis O’Dea, Mrs. Ed. Butler, Misses Vera and Rita Considine (nieces); Paddy, Jack and Frank Considine (nephews); Mrs. P. J. Considine, Miss Mona Considine, Rt. Rev. Mgr. Considine, Very Rev J. Considine; Mr. Jack Considine; Mr. Paddy Considine etc..
Mass cards were sent by - Her Loving sister Helena; Louis and May; Jack; Eddie and Nellie; Paddy and Tess; Rita and Vera; Frances and Pat; Agnes and Michael; Frank and Bunty; A friend to [??]; Joe and Maud Griffin; M. Morrissey; M. Collopy and A. Guerin; Mai and Francey Neylon; the Lalor family, Doora; A. Hogan and K. Faller; K. Moloney; Mr. Armstrong and family; Mary and Ernest Crimmins; Jack and E. Hassett; May[?] Wallace, Galway; L. and G. Downey; Mrs. Morrissey and family; Mr. and Mrs. D. H. McParland; Her old friend “Ellen”; Martin and Mrs. Shannon; [?] and Agnes Ahern; Susie Honan; Martin and Peg Lynch; Mrs. Mary Linnane, Jail Rd.; Dan and Mrs. Lynch; Mr. and Mrs. John O’Brien, Francis St.; Mrs. Lynch and family, Drumcarron; Dettie Roughan; M. L. Kennedy and Mary Anderson; F. Tuohy; the Casey family, Gortmore; “A friend”; Delia Begley; Johnny Donovan.
Jim, I don’t think you are claiming that any of these Considines, either Mill Street or Church Street, are relatives of Michael G. Considine. I think you are simply making a connection between the John Considine of the Repeal Button and the Church Street Considines – who were connected to the Rickards family. Thank you for pointing out that John Considine (of the Electors to the Borough) was from Church Street. I hadn’t noted that. And I agree that he is not John Considine the High Street newsagent.

About William Lardner: Griffith’s Valuation for Mill Street shows him leasing Lot 24 from Richard Stackpoole. This may have been near the birth-place of the O Gorman Mahon ( somewhere in Mill Street).

Later on I will give the few records I have put together on another Considine family – children of Lawrence Considine and Bridget Stapleton.

I am still doubting that we will ever find relatives of Michael G. Considine, other than his brother Joseph and Joseph’s descendants.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:12 pm

The following is not really relevant to the subject of this thread, but as promised (above) here are some records for another Considine family from Ennis – the family of Laurence Considine and Bridget Stapleton. This family seems to have left no descendants, but someone may be interested.

The Drumcliff parish records show the baptisms of three children of Laurence Considine and Bridget Stapleton, Borheen, Ennis:

28 Dec. 1849: Margaret of Lawrence Considine and Bridget Stapleton, Borheen; sponsors: James Purcel, Maria Quinn.
23 Mar. 1851: Richard of Lawrence Considine and Bridget Stapleton, Borheen; sponsors: James Corry, Margaret Linard(?)
06 Mar. 1853: Baptism of Luisa of Lawrence Considine and Bridget Stapleton, Borheen; sponsors: James Meere, Eliza Considine.

Griffith’s Valuation for Court House, or Gort-Road, Ennis, shows Laurence Considine leasing Lot 12 from Francis Gore. It is a house valued at £2 10s. His next-door neighbour is Edward Kerin who is leasing a house valued at £7.

Laurence died in Mill Street (later Parnell Street) in 1890, aged 75. The record of his death gives his occupation as Butler, but I think he was also a shopkeeper. The informant is Richard Considine, his son.
Bridget Considine (nee Stapleton) died in 1893, aged 70. The record of her death describes her as Widow of a shopkeeper. The informant is Richard Considine, her son. The burial place of Laurence and Bridget is Drumcliff and the inscription says: “Erected by Richard Considine Ennis in Memory of his beloved father Laurence Considine who died 27 July 1890 aged 75 years. May he rest in Peace. Bridget Considine died 15 Jan. 1893 aged 70 years. R.I. P.”

The 1901 census shows Richard Considine living in Mill Street, aged 50, single, Publican and Writing Clerk, and his sister, Louisa, single, aged 48.
The 1911 census shows Richard now aged 60 and his sister Louisa (mistakenly transcribed as Honorea) aged 58. Richard’s occupation is now Writing Clerk – Land Agency.

Richard died in Mill Street on 14 Jan. 1929, aged 78. The record of his death gives his occupation as Merchant (the informant is M. Lynch, District Nurse, Causeway, Ennis). His sister Louisa died a couple of months later on 23 Mar. 1929. I haven’t found a record of her death, but the headstone for Richard is inscribed: “Richard Considine Parnell St. Ennis died 14th Jan.1929 aged 77. His sister Louie died 23rd Mar. 1929 aged 64”.
An obituary for Richard was published in the Clare Champion on 19 Jan. 1929, and an obituary for Louisa was published on 30 Mar. 1929:
Clare Champion 19th Jan. 1929:
Mr. R. Considine, Ennis.
It is with deep regret we announce the death of Mr. Richard Considine, which took place at his residence, Parnell Street, Ennis on Monday last…..For many years he was Estate Agent for Mr. R. J. Stacpoole, of Edenvale, and during his entire term of office the relations between him and the tenants were always of the most cordial description. …interment took place at Drumcliffe cemetery. [no relatives mentioned]

Clare Champion 30th Mar. 1929:
Death of Miss Louisa Considine, Parnell Street, Ennis.
We regret to announce the death which occurred on Saturday last, of Miss Louisa Considine, Parnell Street, Ennis. The deceased who had reached the fine old age of 76 years, was daughter of the late Mr. Laurence Considine and a member of one of the most respected families in the district. Her brother, Mr. Richard Considine, died in January last at an advanced age, and, in the person of Miss Considine, the last of the family has disappeared. In the circumstances, the arrangements for the funeral, etc., were undertaken by Mr. E. F. Kerin, Co. C., godson of the late Mr. Richard Consdiine, who, prior to his death , asked him to take control of the household affairs. Funeral to Drumcliffe on Sunday was attended by a representative concourse of mourners, including Mrs. Hogan, Miss Jane McGrath, Misses Guerin, Mrs. M. Collopy, Mrs. Arthur, Limerick.
An article entitled “Landscape and Settlement in the Townland of Drinagh, part III” by Martin Barry, in The Other Clare, Vol. 39 (2015), mentions Richard Considine. The townland of Drinagh, in the parish of Rath, was part of the estate of the Stackpooles of Cragbrien (near Ennis). Barry says that by 1860 Richard Stackpoole of Edenvale was the agent for the estate:
Richard Stackpoole, it would appear, visited the estate very infrequently and instead this job fell to his bailiff Michael Cunningham from Ennis. Cunningham would travel to the estate periodically, meet the tenants and relay their grievances back to the land agent. These grievances were usually about the cost of rent or a tenant’s failure to receive abatements or allowances for improvements. Occasionally tenants such as Mrs. Hogan from Drinagh might go to Edenvale in person in the hope of seeking a meeting with Mr. Stackpoole, but such visits were discouraged and generally business was transacted through his solicitor, Mr. Cullinan, at Ennis [note 68: Evidence by Michael Cunningham, Ennis, to the Land Commission Court, pp. 46-47]. Rent was paid twice-yearly at Ennistymon on ‘gale days’ – 20 November and 5 June, dates traditionally set aside for the purpose. This transaction was usually overseen by Michael Cunningham and the estate clerk Richard Considine [note 69: Evidence by Richard Considine, Ennis, to the Land Commission Court, pp. 47-48]
Martin Barry’s article is most interesting and, reading it, I doubt that the tenants themselves were entirely happy with their situation, but I think Richard Considine’s role was just Clerk and not Agent, despite the description of him as Agent in the Obit.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:12 am

Hi Jim,

I am still doubting that we will ever find any more relatives of Michael G. Considine, and anyway it was the man himself, rather than his relatives, who interested me. But I came across a Margaret Considine when I was reading Brian Spring’s book, A Broad History of a Narrow Street: Abbey Street – Ennis, and was tempted to explore. So I wasted some time (quite happily) and found nothing that shows she’s a relative of Michael, but at least she was a contemporary and close neighbour of both Michael G. in High Street, and of John Considine the newsagent. So I will give what I’ve found here.

In his book, Brian Spring takes each shop (as it was in 2013, the time of publication) and gives the corresponding lot in Griffth’s Valuation, plus later changes to lessors and tenants (using the records usually called the Cancellation Books available in the Valuation Office in Dublin). Having dealt with the right-hand side (the premises between where the old Courthouse stood in the Square and Abbeyfield House at the end of the street), Brian Spring starts on the left-hand side at the height of the street where the Bank of Ireland stood (now Carraig Donn) and deals with each premises on that side of the street right down to the Club Bridge. He includes advertisements and photographs revelant to each one. After Carraig Donn, he moves to the shop that many people will remember as Seymour’s chemist shop. He doesn’t write about any of the lanes, so he skips over Brewery Lane and moves on to No. 2 (lot 49), No. 4 (lot 48), No 6 (lot 47), which had a rear unit (lot 46) and to No. 8 (lot 45B). Both No. 6 and No. 8 were occupied by a Thomas McMahon, and, in later years - about 1886 - No. 8 was occupied by a Patrick Considine.
Brian Spring explains that Thomas McMahon’s wife was Margaret Considine: “Margaret McMahon, dressmaker and milliner, Margaret née Considine, lived next door to a butcher’s run by Tom McMahon. Her brother was Pat Considine.” Brian Spring qualifies this a little later when he says that Patrick Considine is possibly Margaret’s brother (p 83). Thomas McMahon, Church Street, was a butcher and it seems that Margaret had her own dressmaking and millinery business next door to the butcher’s shop. Brian Spring includes an advertisment for her business which appeared in the Clare Almanack of 1868.

Then I looked at the baptisms of the children of Thomas and Margaret, hoping that the sponsors would supply some clues (Ennis Parish Genealogy* in conjunction with Drumcliff Parish register of baptisms**).
04 Dec 1848: Mary (no address) of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine; John Considine, Margaret Dwyer.
09 Sep 1853: John, Brewery Lane, of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine; Pat Considine, Anne Curtin.
21 Aug 1855: James, Church St., of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine; Michael Considine, Honour Gately.
18 Jul 1859: Thomas, Church St., of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine; Pat Halloran, Anne Meehan.
21 Nov 1860: Elizabeth, Church St., of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine; sponsors: Stephen Fitzgerald, Jane Daly.

* https://www.ennisparish.com/genealogy/
** https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up

So it seems that Thomas McMahon and his wife Margaret Considine lived in Brewery Lane at the time of the birth of their son, John, in 1853. They then moved to Church Street where James was born in 1855. Griffith’s Valuation shows Thomas McMahon leasing Lot 47, Church-Street, Clonroad Beg (House, offices, and yard valued at £15). Thomas McMahon is also leasing part of Lot 1 in Brewery Lane, jointly with Patrick McNamara. There’s also a Thomas McMahon* leasing Lot 11 in High-Street from Patrick Barry. (Note: Patrick Barry is also the lessor of Lot 10 next door where Michael Considine and Francis Walker are jointly leasing a house and cellar). I should explain that High Street was a continuation of Church Street, and the Bank of Ireland (mentioned above) was built when High Street was demolished (to make way for a junction). Living in High-Street at the time of Griffith’s Valuation were (among others) John Considine, possibly the Newsagent; he is leasing Lot 5 (valued at £19), and Margaret O’Dwyer (Lot 14). These names may explain a couple of the sponsors at the baptisms of the children of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine.

* According to Séan Spellissy in The Merchants of Ennis an 1856 Directory (Slater’s?) lists a Thomas McMahon as a Tobacconist in High Street.

Later records:
22 Dec 1882: Death of Thomas McMahon, Church Street, Ennis, aged 64, Butcher; informant M MacMahon, wife.

1901 Census: Margaret MacMahon, aged 63, Manageress of (servant’s?) registry office, widow, and her daughter Margaret A. McMahon aged 24, born in Co. Dublin.

20 Jan 1907: Death of Margaret McMahon, Church Street, Ennis, aged 89, widow of a butcher; informant: Margaret MacMahon, daughter.

1911 Census: Margaret McMahon, aged 29, is boarding at the house of Minnie Roughan, Dressmaker, O’Connell Street, Ennis. Her birthplace is Dublin.

I suspect that the age given for Margaret McMahon (nee Considine) at her death in 1907 (89 years) is closer to reality than the age given in the 1901 census (63 years). I think Margaret (junior) may be her granddaughter rather than her daughter. If Margaret (senior) was aged 89 in 1907, then she was born about 1818 – about the same time as her husband, Thomas McMahon.
I was interested in the Patrick Considine who lived in No. 8 for a while after Thomas McMahon died (a new tenant had replaced him by 1887, according to Brian Spring), so I searched for the death a Patrick Considine, who might fit . But I didn’t find any Patrick who suited.

Margaret McMahon’s (née Considine) Dressmaking and Millinary business was quite an established one:
She is listed among the Dressmakers and Milliners in Guys Directory 1893. She is in Church Street, while K McMahon is in Jail Street and Miss Roughan is in the Causeway: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... chants.htm
Margaret McMahon, Church St., and Honoria Roughan, Causeway, are the only two listed in Slaters Directory 1881: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... s_1881.htm
Margaret is the only milliner in Bassett’s Directory, 1880: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... trades.htm (Jim, this postcard of Church Street shows John Considine’s butcher shop in the distance– it has an awning over the front, essential for keeping the place cool in Summer).
She is also listed in Bassett’s Directory, 1875: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... /ennis.htm
(Jim, this is Church Street at the lower end; the view from this end shows John Considine’s shop nearby on the right-hand side. It is in the two-storey building, where there’s also another shop plus the front door of a public house that wraps around the corner into the causeway).
Margaret is also in Slater’s Directory of 1870: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... s_1870.htm, as is her husband, Thomas McMahon: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... s_1870.htm. Thomas is listed in Bassett’s 1875 and in Slater’s 1881, but not in Guy’s 1893 (he had died). None of his sons, it seems, took over the business, but a Pat Considine occupied the shop for a while about 1886, according to the Cancellation books. In modern times No. 6 became Brookses sweetshop and No. 8 became Meade’s Fruiterer, Florists and Seedsman.

I doubt very much we will ever know if Margaret Considine was related to either Michael G., or to John Considine the Newsagent. All we know is that she was a contemporary, a close neighbour and might be related to a Pat Considine.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:11 am

A note on Thady Lynch:

The speech made by Michael Considine in Feb. 1863 at the raising of the last stone on the column of the monument to Daniel O’Connell (reported in The Freeman’s Journal, Sydney, on 20 May 1863) is quoted by Jimbo on page 2 of this thread, and contains a reference to Thady Lynch: "I am sure that honest Irishman, Thady Lynch, who is this evening absent, will stand by him as one of his fellow-labourers in the noble cause, and that if he is an Irishman in the dungeon or on the scaffold, he would never deny he loved the Irish green."

Thady Lynch is also mentioned by Kieran Sheedy, in The Clare Elections, as being among the group who met Parnell when he came to Ennis to support James Lysaght Finigan's bid for election as member of parliament for the Borough of Ennis in 1879: "he [Parnell] returned to Ennis with T. D. Sullivan M.P., having arrived on the 4 a.m. Mail train. On the platform to meet him were Stephen Meany, Michael Considine, St. George Joyce (Editor, Clare Journal), Thady Lynch, Francis Tuohy, and John Burgess…” (p. 260).

And a diary-entry by P.J. Dillon (a draper in Church Street) quoted by Kieran Sheedy, in “Soft Dull Day – Trade Blue” in The Other Clare, Vol.18 (1994), mentions Thady Lynch: “July 13 [1865]: The mob set drunk by Stacpoole. Tar barrels out and a great value for C.B. Molony. I was pressed hard to address the crowd out of Thady Lynch’s window but prudently declined.” (p. 61)

That window was in Church Street (later Abbey Street):
Thady Lynch was not in Church Street at the time of Griffith’s Valuation (1856); that Valuation shows Thady Lynch leasing Lot 6, Clonroad Beg. The townland of Clonroad Beg contains a large part of the town of Ennis, but Lot. 6 lies at the more rural end of the townland, behind the Gaol. (the Gaol is listed under Gaol Road). But soon afterwards Thady Lynch opened a Bacon Dealing business in Church Street: Brian Spring, in A Broad History of a Narrow Street: Abbey Street – Ennis, writes of the present day No. 25 (an optician’s at the time Spring was writing in 2013) and says that it was a John O’Brien who was leasing it at the time of Griffith’s Valuation (1856), and the next occupant was Thady Lynch (from the late 1850 – 1897).

Thady Lynch appears in Slater’s Directory in 1870: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... n_1870.htm
And in Bassett’s Directory 1875: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _bacon.htm

Brian Spring says that Thady Lynch was married to Johanna Brennan; their children were: John 1842, Mary 1844, Thady 1846, Michael 1847, John 1849, Pat 1851. (p. 63).

23 May 1891: Death of Thady Lynch, Church Street, Ennis, aged 74, Widower, Victualler; informant: Michael Lynch, brother, Church Street.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:28 pm

A note on Gaol Road (mentioned just above) as presented in Griffith's Valuation:

I think that the entries for couple of the tenants in Griffith’s Valuation are repeat entries. Placed at the beginning of the list of tenants for the townland of Clonroad Beg, in Drumcliff parish, are those tenants who occupied the more rural end of that townland. There are only 9 tenants and among them are Thady Lynch (Lot 6) and John Leary (Lot 7). John Leary is subletting a house valued at 15s to a Patrick Considine and a house valued at 15s to a William Wright. The corresponding map shows that Lot 7 is the field beside the county jail, and there are three houses close together and close to the jail marked a, b, and c. These are the houses of John Leary, Patrick Considine and William Wright.
Then, in the urban part of the townland of Clonroad Beg, we come to Gaol Road, and find the same tenants: John Leary is subletting houses to William Wright and Patrick Considine (plus out-offices to Giles D’Arcy who was governor of the jail). The value of the houses are the same as before. And so I think they are the same tenancies as the ones already listed.
I’ve been reading “The Heavy Metal Guv’nor: Giles D’Arcy (1821-1903), Governor of Ennis Jail” by Declan Barron: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _darcy.htm, where Barron says that the inmates of the jail received instruction in various trades, and I wonder if Patrick Considine and William Wright were among the instructors, or if they had some other form of employment within the jail. A son of William Wright, Ed. Wright, was married in 1881. The record of the marriage gives Ed’s occupation as Smith and his father William’s occupation as Coach Builder. I have failed to find any children, or any marriage for Patrick Considine. Reading the article on Giles D’Arcy, I see that Giles was at first employed by his father as the jail clerk. I wonder if Patrick Considine fulfilled this role after Giles took over as Governor.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Jimbo » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:41 am

Hi Sheila,

Greater knowledge of the siblings of Michael G Considine, the shoemaker and secretary of the trades, would tell a great deal about the man himself. The "Dirty Mick" origin myth that is emphasized in most writings provide only a caricature of the man. Plus, any research of Considines that turn out not to be related at least provides interesting information about the town of Ennis and the era that Michael G Considine was living in.

What type of dog, if any, Michael Considine was the owner of might also tell you more about the man himself. In checking the Irish dog license register, there was a Michael Considine, of Ennis, who was issued a dog license for a female Black & Tan Terrier on 27 March 1877. Living in Ennis there were no doubt several Michael Considines at that time; later dog registers provide a street address and make a better census substitute. For example, Susan [Rickards] Considine, of "Church Street Ennis", was issued a dog license for a male Black Terrier, on 29 March 1881, just one week prior to her sudden death.

The information you provided on Margaret Considine, the dressmaker, married to Thomas McMahon, the victualler, was very interesting. Your below comment about the Patrick Considine who was a tenant of Thomas McMahon for a short time and was replaced by 1887, well surely, this was Patrick Considine, the cattle dealer, married to Elizabeth Rickards, who died on 17 March 1887. Highly likely that Margaret Considine McMahon and Patrick Considine are siblings:
I was interested in the Patrick Considine who lived in No. 8 for a while after Thomas McMahon died (a new tenant had replaced him by 1887, according to Brian Spring), so I searched for the death of a Patrick Considine, who might fit. But I didn’t find any Patrick who suited.
With regards to the children of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine that you have listed out, I would also consider the children of Thomas McMahon and Mary Considine recorded in the Ennis baptism records. It is easy to confuse a "Mary" with a "Marg" by either a priest or a transcriber. I doubt it is a coincidence that the baptisms with Mary Considine listed as the mother, Patrick McMahon (14 March 1850), Margaret McMahon (19 January 1857), and Michael McMahon (25 May 1862), fit in perfectly with those you have listed with the mother as Margaret. I couldn't find the marriage of Thomas McMahon to either Margaret Considine or Mary Considine.

And I agree with you that John Considine, the victualler of Church Street, and husband of Susan Rickards, was more likely the 60 year old who died in 1875. John Considine, the victualler of Church Street, and Patrick Considine, the cattle dealer of Mill Street, who I thought likely were brothers, upon further reflection, are most certainly brothers. While no baptism records are available to prove this relationship, the evidence is in both their social status and linked occupations. The fact that they both named their first born sons Michael is also an important clue.

William Rickards, a wealthy merchant of Ennis, would have only permitted his daughters to be married to a man of the same merchant class. So while Considine is a common name in Ennis, there were not so many men, such as John Considine, who was an elector in Ennis prior to his marriage, that were men of property. Patrick Considine, who was later named a Town Councilor of Ennis, would have been of equal social status to his brother.

The most compelling reason that John Considine and Patrick Considine were brothers is that the elder brother was a victualler and the younger brother was a cattle dealer. This occupational relationship is one that we see repeated several times in Ennis, for example, with the children of John Spellissy and Catherine Considine.

In the 1870 Slater's Directory for Ennis, the two cattle dealers listed are John Spellissy of Cork Alley Lane, and Patrick Considine of Mill Street. The elder son of John Spellissy and Catherine Considine, Patrick Spellissy, was a victualler in 1901; their younger son, James Spellissy, was a cattle dealer in 1901. This was the same occupational relationship as between John Considine and Patrick Considine. In order to learn the victualler trade, Thomas Spellissy, the eldest son of cattle dealer James Spellissy, was reported as an assistant in the 1901 census to Michael Considine, the victualler of Church Street. John Spellissy was also a baptism sponsor for two of Michael Considine's younger sisters in 1863 and 1865 . These relationships not only show that John Considine and Patrick Considine were likely brothers, but also that Catherine Considine married to John Spellissy was likely their sister.

Another example, with a slight twist. Michael Considine, the son of John Considine, of Church Street, was a victualler in 1901. Michael Considine, the son of Patrick Considine, of Mill Street, was a cattle dealer in 1901. While first cousins, their relationship may have been as close as brothers. Both parents of Michael Considine of Church Street had died by 1881, leaving children as young as nine years old orphaned. These children appear to have been raised by Patrick and Elizabeth Considine of Mill Street; also at the same address were their grandfather William Rickards and aunt Mary Anne Rickards. Sheila, the evidence of this, besides being the most natural outcome, was the obituary for Kitty Considine in 1936 that you provided. Mrs. Ed Butler was reported as a niece, when in fact, she was the daughter of Kitty's first cousin, Elizabeth Considine married to John Butler. Similarly, the informant "J. Considine" reported as a nephew on the death record for Kitty Considine; he was most likely John Considine, the son of Kitty's first cousin, Michael Considine.

Not sure why Michael Considine, of Mill Street, was living away from his family as a cattle dealer in Doonbeg at the 1901 Irish census. Michael Considine was one of 22 cattle dealers who were boarding in Doonbeg on 31 March 1901. Was there a special cattle fair in Doonbeg on that date? Were they selling their cattle for shipment by sea from Doonbeg to England? This gathering of cattle dealers at Doonbeg was not there in the 1911 census.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/s ... ageSize=50

If John Considine (1815 - 1875), Margaret Considine McMahon (1818 - 1907), Catherine Considine Spellissy (1822 - 1877), and Patrick Considine (1830 - 1887) were indeed siblings, the Considine family would have dominated the butcher and cattle market of Ennis. Unfortunately, the Spellissy family didn't have another brother that was a shoemaker. It's looking doubtful that Michael G Considine (1812 - 1884) and Joseph Considine (no dates) of Brewery Lane were additional siblings. Although, Sheila, your latest research did include the 1855 baptism of James McMahon, son of Thomas McMahon and Margaret Considine, with a baptism sponsor named Michael Considine. The baptism sponsors for two other McMahon children were John Considine and Patrick Considine.

John Spellissy and Catherine Considine were married in Ennis on 6 January 1844; witnesses were Patrick Ghent (sp?) and Mary Haire. In the 1846 Slater's Directory for Ennis, John Spellissy of Jail Street was reported as one of 12 butchers with a "Jail Street" address. Also in 1846, reported as "In the market", James Spellissy, Jeremiah Spellissy, and John Spellissy were listed among 26 butchers. John Spellissy had died prior to the marriage of his son Patrick in 1874. There are two Ennis death records for a John Spellissy: one died in 1864 at the age of 78, and another died in 1870 at the age of 63 years old; the records are not yet available online. Since John Spellissy of Cork Alley Lane was reported as a cattle dealer in the 1870 Slater's Directory, he must be the 63 year old who died in 1870. Catherine Considine Spellissy appears to have died in 1877 in Ennis at the age of 55 years old; the death record is also not yet available online. John Spellissy and Catherine Considine had six children reported in the Ennis baptism records:

1.0 Mary Spellisy baptized 6 November 1844, sponsors James Hanrahan (?) and Mary (?)

2.0 Anne Spellisy baptized 4 November 1846 per index, could not find on original register

3.0 Patrick Spellisy baptized 24 April 1849, sponsors Michael Spellisy and Mrs (?) Spellisy. Patrick Spellissy, age 24, victualler, son of John Spellissy, deceased victualler of Ennis, married Catherine Ryan, daughter of John Ryan, victualler (alive), of Ennis at the RC Chapel at Ennis, on 26 January 1874, witnesses Michael Mc (sp?) and Minnie (Winnie?) McInerney. Although reported at his 1874 marriage and in the 1901 Census as occupation victualler, Patrick Spellissy was not included in the 1881 Slater's Directory for Ennis as a butcher. <Ennis Urban, House 65 Gaol Street; Ennis No.4, House 57 O'Connell Street>.
............ 3.1 Mary Spellissy baptized 6 December 1874, Mill Street, sponsors John Spellissy and Mary Kate Ryan. Age 26 in 1901 census.
............ 3.2 John Spellissy baptized 12 December 1875, Mill Street, sponsors John J Ryan and Margaret McInerny.
............ 3.3 Joseph Spellissy baptized 23 February 1877, Mill Street, sponsors James Ryan and Bridget Ryan. Age 24 in 1901 census, occupation victualler.
............ 3.4 Patrick Spellissy baptized 14 March 1878, Mill Street, sponsors James Spellissy and Mary O'Halloran. There is a note on the baptism record, that he was married in Stratford, London on 23 April 1919 (maybe 1909).
............ 3.5 Elizabeth Spellissy baptized 11 July 1879 (age 21 in 1901 census)
............ 3.6 James Spellissy baptized 31 July 1881 (age 19 in 1901 census)
............ 3.7 Vincent Spellissy baptized 22 July 1882, twins
............ 3.8 Francis Spellissy baptized 22 July 1882, twins
............ 3.9 Bernard Spellissy baptized 23 October 1883 (age 17 in 1901 census)
............ 3.10 Gertrude Spellissy baptized 21 October 1884 (age 16 in 1901 census)
............ 3.11 Catherine Spellissy baptized 5 January 1886 (age 15 in 1901 census)
............ 3.12 Agnes Spellissy baptized 7 May 1887
............ 3.13 Francis Spellissy baptized 17 May 1888 (age 12 in 1901 census)

4.0 Catherine Spellisy baptized 19 September 1850, of Cork Alley Lane, Michael Spellisy and Bridget Spellisy.

5.0 James Spellisy baptized 25 January 1854, of Cork Alley Lane, sponsors Michael Spellisy and Eliza Molony. James Spellissy, age 23, cattle dealer, son of John Spellissy, cattle dealer of Ennis, married Jane Galvin, daughter of John Galvin, farmer, of Kilnamona at the RC Chapel at Kilnamona (Inagh Parish), on 21 January 1879, witnesses Charles McInerney and Mary O'Keeffe. The 1881 Slater's Directory for Ennis appears to have mistakenly reported James Spellissy as his deceased father "John Spellissy of Cork Alley Lane" when reporting him as a cattle dealer. Age 51 in 1901 census; occupation cattle dealer. <Ennis Urban, House 49 Gaol Street; Ennis No. 4, House 78 O'Connell Street>.
............ 5.1 Mary Spellissy (age 20 in 1901 census)
............ 5.2 Thomas Spellissy (age 17 in 1901 census, assistant victualler to Michael Considine of Church Street) <Ennis No. 3, House 12 Church Street; Ennis No. 2, House 5 Pound Lane>.
............ 5.3 Anne Spellissy (age 18 in 1901 census)
............ 5.4 Michael Spellissy (age 15 in 1901 census)
............ 5.5 Ellen Spellissy baptized 2 January 1889
............ 5.6 Margaret "Gretta" Spellissy (age 8 in 1901 census)
............ 5.7 John Spellissy (age 7 in 1901 census)
............ 5.8 James Spellissy (age 4 in 1901 census)
............ 5.9 Catherine Spellissy (age 2 in 1901 census)

6.0 Mary Spellisy baptized 24 July 1857, of Corcory Lane, sponsors Pat'k McMahon and Bridget Spellisy.

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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Hi Jimbo,

It was only when I was doing a search of Clare Past Forum for mentions of Thady Lynch for my recent posting (above) that I discovered that only mentions in ordinary text are shown and not any that are within quotes. So in future, if I am quoting and want a name within the quote to be searchable, I will use ordinary quote marks.

Jimbo, you may be right in saying that the Patrick Considine, who in 1886-1887 was leasing the building that is now No. 8 Abbey Street, was Patrick Considine of Mill Street. As I continued to read Brian Spring’s book, I noticed that the landlords of the next building (now No. 10) were William Ryan (at the time of Griffith’s Valuation), then Lizzie Considine, then Miss Considine. I think this Lizzie Considine might Elizabeth née Rickards, the wife of Patrick Considine of Mill Street.

Jimbo, I am still not sure that Patrick Considine of Mill Street was a brother of John Considine of Church Street, but I think your best argument for it is that William Rickards would have looked for a prosperous family for his daughters. If he was happy with John Considine, he might have decided that Patrick Considine would also be suitable husband. But the obituary for Patrick’s daughter, Kitty, published in 1936, doesn’t show that Patrick and John are brothers. Mrs. Ed. Butler (one of the mourners) is not the daughter of John Considine, Church Street, who had married John Butler in 1893; Mrs. Ed Butler is Nellie Considine, the daughter of Kitty’s brother, Michael of O’Connell Street. She married Edward Butler in 1926: Edward Francis Butler, Bank Official, Ennis, son of John Butler, Farmer, married Nellie Considine, Ennis, daughter of Michael Considine, Farmer, in the church of St. Joseph, Limerick; witnesses: Patrick J. Butler, Collin’s Barracks, Cork, and Rita Considine, 24 O’Connell St., Ennis. So all of the nieces and nephews belong to the O’Connell street family of Michael Considine. Maybe some of the other mourners belong to the Abbey Street Considines.

Jimbo, I am going to introduce you to a Pat Considine who is probably an ancestor to some of the Considines in Clare, but it will probably be “Hello and Goodbye” because he was born sometime in the second half of the 18th century so I’m not even going to try to link him to any descendants. I will give the mention of him that I found, but first bear with me while I give some background information:
James Patrick Mahon (The O’Gorman Mahon) was born in 1802 to Patrick Mahon and Barbara O’Gorman. Patrick and Barbara had married in 1798. Barbara’s family (O’Gormans) had a business in Mill Street, Ennis, where No. 40 is now. Declan Barron gives a lot of detail in his article donated to clarelibrary, “James Patrick “The O’Gorman Mahon”: His Early Life and Influences”: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... n_main.htm
Then, last year, Declan Barron contributed an article entitled “Newpark House and the Mahon Family”, to The Other Clare Vol. 43 (2019), and in this he gives a small crumb of information which is not in the earlier article: he says, “Patrick Mahon’s sister, who had been married to a shopkeeper in Kilrush (who to confuse things was also named O’Gorman), had trouble with her marriage and went to live with her brother, Rev. James, in Kerry [note 27: Ennis Chronicle, Apr. 1825]. Another sister married Pat Considine [note 28: National Library of Ireland, Michael Lysaght, A Brief History of the O’Gorman family, 9 January 1861; National Library of Ireland, Dunboyne Cuttings, Mss 3321-3379]. I am curious about this Pat Considine, but I suspect that if Declan Barron had any more details regarding Pat Considine he would have given them. We must remember that a sister of Patrick Mahon would not have lived in Mill Street. Patrick Mahon, himself, seems to have lived in Snugville in Kilmaley, or at least he was based there. So the Pat Considine his sister married might be someone from that parish. And there are a lot of Considines there.

Last edited by Sduddy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:13 pm

Well, when I said that there were a lot of Considines in Kilmaley I was thinking of the Kilmaley parish baptisms and marriages, which certainly do show a lot of Considines, but I think now that Kilmaley Catholic parish boundaries must have encompassed a great deal of area beyond the boundaries of the civil parish.

When I looked at the information for civil parish of Kilmaley under Civil Parishes in Research Support: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ilmaly.htm, I found that there were practically no Considines in Kilmaley, apart from a couple shown in the Tithe Applotment books, i.e Laurence Considine in Cahermore and Denis Considine in Ballyvow: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ey_tab.htm
And there are no Considines in Griffith’s Valuation for Kilmaley.

So I looked again at the baptisms and I saw that Laurence Considine and Margaret Leo of Cahermore had four children baptised between 1834 and 1844, but Laurence is not in Griffith’s Valuation. And Dennis Considine of Ballyvoe doesn’t appear in the baptisms.
And then, while looking through the addresses of the other Considine families, I realized that most of them belonged to townlands that lay outside the civil parish. The Considine families whose addresses are Sleaveen, or Cragnagour, or Cragleigh, or Kilquane, all belong to Drumcliff civil parish.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:47 am

I was looking in the Tithe Applotment Books for a Patrick Considine who might be comfortably off enough to qualify as a husband for the sister of Patrick Mahon, and I found a Patrick Considine in the townland of Drumcliff, Drumcliff, who held a farm of 200 acres (as far as I can make out). But I was pulled up short when I saw a headstone in Drumcliff graveyard inscribed: "Peace and rest be to the soul of Patrick Considine late of Drumcliff who dept this life on the 22 of March 1839 aged 59 years. Erected by his wife Eliza Considine alias Kean For her and posterity". So this very suitable Patrick was not the husband of Miss Mahon after all.
Patrick’s neighbours in Drumcliff were Thomas Purcell and Ralph Cullinan: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarc ... _00406.pdf
This sparked a memory of the Patrick Considine, Cincinnati, who contributed to the Friary at Willowbank, describing himself as a cousin of the Messrs Cullinan. I think now that Patrick in Cincinnati must be a son of Patrick whose headstone is in Drumcliff. I’ve mentioned him already on page 17 of the topic “Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree”:viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6965:
The Considines in Cincinnati seem to have been well connected too. Among the "Newspaper Extracts relating to Clare 1778 – 1920" donated by Lucille Ellis: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _ellis.htm, is this item published in the Clare Journal of 28th Jan 1858: "Franciscan Church Willowbank. Receipt of £10 from Mr. Patrick Considine, Mount Erin, Cincinnati, America. Mr Considine is first cousin to the Messrs Cullinan, Thomas, Ralph and James". These Cullinans were gentlemen farmers and belonged to the higher echelons of society.

The Considines in Cincinnati gave some land for the building of Mount Saint Mary Seminary there. The following notices of their deaths show that they had remained unmarried, so maybe there are no descendants:
31st Jan. 1875: Considine – At Mt. St. Mary’s Seminary, Jan. 30, at 10.20 P.M., Mr. Michael Considine in the 70th year of his age. A Solemn High Mass of Requiem will be sung on Monday morning at 9 o’clock, for the repose of his soul, in the Seminary chapel, after which the funeral will take place. All friends of the Considine family are invited to attend. Cincinnati Daily Enquirer (Ohio)
12 June, 1873: Considine – On Wednesday, the 11th inst, at the residence of her brother, Mr. Patrick Considine, in the Twenty ? Ward, Mary Considine. The funeral will take place on Friday morning at 10 o’clock. Cincinnati Commercial Tribune (Ohio). (These newspaper notices I found some years ago when I was subscribing to genealogybank. com)
As I said in that piece, the Cullinan were gentlemen farmers, or at least Ralph Cullinan was. He features in the Devon Commission as a farmer of 1,200 acres at a rent of £1500 a year: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _clare.htm

Patrick Considine, Michael Considine, Honora/Hanna Considine and Mary Considine settled Storrs Township, Hamilton Ohio, at first. The US 1850 shows them there: Patrick aged 36; a farmer, Michael Considine aged 38, Honora Considine aged 40 and Mary Considine aged 32. All born in Ireland.
In 1860, Patrick, aged 52, and Michael aged 48 are still in Storrs Township.
In 1870, Patrick aged 67, Michael aged 64, Hannah aged 69 and Mary aged 60 are living in 21st Ward, City of Cincinnati, County of Hamilton. Next door are Patrick Hogan, aged 50, farm labourer, Mary Hogan aged 40, born in Ireland, and their children, born in Ohio, Hannah aged 6 and Ellen aged 2. I don’t know if there is any relationship between the Considines and the Hogans.
Patrick Considine died in 1873. Or at least his will was filed on 12 Sept 1873; residence Cincinnati; Box 30; Case No 17849; Executor: Edward Purcell; Beneficiaries: Michael Considine, Mary Considine, Honora Considine.
I think Thomas Cullinan was in Cincinnati at the same time as Patrick. Among "Biographical Notices of Clare-born in ‘The Brooklyn Daily Eagle’, New York, 1879-1954", donated by Marie Crowley: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... 9_1954.htm is this notice:

CULLINAN: Dr Thomas, died Friday at the home of his son Dr Henry J. Cullinan of Linden Avenue of acute heart trouble. He was born August 6, 1841 at Ennis, Co. Clare, Ireland, came to this country in 1853 and settled first in Philadelphia, subsequently going to Cincinnati, where most of his life was spent. He was a member of Company D, One Hundred & Thirty-Seventh Ohio Volunteer Infantry during Civil War, and at one time president of the Friendly Sons of St. Patrick of Cincinnati. Dr Cullinan took up his residence in Flatbush in 1893, since when as ‘Major’ Cullinan he has been well known, to most of its people. He was a widower, his wife Frances Ann Molyneux having died in 1897. Dr Cullinan is survived by one daughter and five sons and made his home with his daughter Charlotte M. Cullinan and his son Dr. Henry M. Cullinan.
7 March, 1910. Page: 3


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:15 pm

Well, I’m no longer so sure that Patrick Considine in Cincinnati is the son of Patrick Considine, Drumcliff. Tithes also shows a Patt Consadine in Erinagh Beg, Dysert, with neighbours Roger Cullinan, Patt Cullinan, Tim Roughan, Martin Roughan: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarc ... _00394.pdf. Maybe this is the Considine family who went to Ohio. The name of the townland (Erinagh) may have been the inspiration for “Mount Erin”, the address given by Patrick Considine when he made the donation to the Francisan Friary. The Ruan-Dysert baptisms show two baptisms for the Erinagh Beg Considines:
(1) Honor Considine of Patt Considine and Catherine Cullinan, Erina, on 02 Jul 1846; sponsors: (?) Quealy, Bridget Cullinan.
(2) Bridget Considine of Patt Considine and Catherine Cullinan (no address), on 17 Jul 1847; sponsors: Jeremiah O’Brien, Biddy Cullinan.

There are no Considines in Erinagh Beg by the time of Griffith’s Valuation.
The townland of Erinagh Beg is at the southernmost tip of Dysert Parish and is adjacent to the townlands of Drumcliff and Fountain in Drumcliff parish.

I’m afraid I have drifted a long way from Michael G. Considine.


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:12 am

Hi Jimbo

We have found very few records for John Considine, mentioned in the Directories for Ennis as Tobacconist and Newsagent in High Street, but we know that he was still alive when his son Michael died in Dec. 1881 at age 49 (John was granted administration of Michael’s estate). We have no record of John’s own death. All we can say is that he must have married by 1830.
Now, here is the marriage of a Maria Considine in 1870, daughter of a John Considine. Could this John be the newsagent, I wonder?:

01 Nov. 1870: Marriage of Pat Shaw, Ennis aged 24, Merchant, son of John Shaw, Merchant (alive), to Maria Considine, aged 29, Shopkeeper, Ennis, daughter of John Considine, Shopkeeper (alive), in Ennis chapel; witnesses: John Considine, G.P. Considine.
Pat Shaw and Maria had two children baptised:
21 Jan 1873: John Joseph of Patrick Shaw and Maria Considine, Mill St.; sponsors: E(?). P. Considine, Eliza Considine.
17 Apr. 1874: Mary Angela of Pat J. Shaw and Maria Considine, Mill Street; sponsors: John Kean, Mary Kate Meehan. (Drumcliff parish register).
The civil records for the births of John Joe and Mary give the occupation of Patrick Shaw as Corn Merchant.
Maria died on 17 July 1874, at Millview, just a couple of months after the birth of Mary Angela, and the record of her death gives her age as 41 – which is a long way out from the age given at marriage (29). Which means she could have been born as early as 1833.

Patrick was married secondly to Mary Emily Rose (in Limerick), in 1877, and the record of the marriage gives his occupation as Gentleman. He and Mary Emily had more children. He died in 1883. The record of his death gives his age as 36, and this accords with the age given at marriage.

Whether Maria was born in 1833 (in line with her age at death) or in 1841 (in line with her age at marriage), she was born years before John Considine of Church Street married Susan Rickards (1858). That's why I’m wondering if she is a daughter of John the newsagent. But there may be another John Considine in the mix: The Tithes applotment books for the town of Ennis, Easter 1833, show a John Considine in Mill Street: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarc ... _00479.pdf


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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Jimbo » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:00 am

Hi Sheila,

With regards to your comment about "doing a search of Clare Past Forum for mentions of Thady Lynch for my recent posting (above) that I discovered that only mentions in ordinary text are shown and not any that are within quotes." Your posting on "Thady Lynch" using the quote feature was written on 10 October 2019; I also mentioned "Thady Lynch" using the quote feature on 25 September 2019. As you may recall, the search function was broken from June 2019 through about 16 October 2019. While the search function now works, there is an issue that the search results never include anything posted between June 2019 and 16 October 2019 (irrespective of using the quote feature). I've sent a message under "Announcements" to Clare Admin notifying them of this issue. It is okay to still use the quote feature — this was not the root cause of the problem you identified.

The Maria Considine who married Patrick Shaw in 1870 is an excellent choice to be the daughter of John Considine, the news agent (shop keeper). Again, we see the importance of occupations and class when the son of a shopkeeper marries the daughter of a shopkeeper.

My previous discussion on the relationship between older/younger brother and victualler/cattle dealer was not very clear (and perhaps not very good). Patrick Spellissy (born 1849) was a victualler; his younger brother James Spellissy (born 1854) was a cattle dealer. Michael Considine (born 1861) was a victualler; his younger cousin Michael Considine (born 1866) was a cattle dealer. Their relationship could have been as close as brothers given that after parents John Considine and Susan Rickards died young, all the Considine children were likely raised in the household of grandfather William Rickards. Continuing with the "occupational" theory: John Considine (1815 - 1875) was a victualler; Patrick Considine (1830 - 1887) was a cattle dealer. Hence, John Considine and Patrick Considine were brothers.

Thanks for the correction regarding the identity of Mrs. Ed Butler reported on the 1936 obituary for Kitty Considine. I mistakenly assumed she was somehow connected to the Elizabeth Considine, daughter of John Considine, (1.7 in the Rickards family tree) who married John Butler of Limerick. Their marriage is another example of a daughter of a victualler marrying the son of a victualler. Upon further research I realize now why it had been challenging to find this couple in the 1901 Irish census:

We regret to announce the death of Mr. John Butler, Victualler, Bedford Row, which occurred unexpectedly this afternoon at his private residence in Catherine Street. A few days ago Mr Butler was seized with an attack of paralysis, from which he never rallied. The occurrence is rendered exceptionally sad by the fact that his marriage took place only a few months ago. Mr Butler was greatly respected in the city, and his death at the early age of 32, and under the singularly melancholy circumstances, will be heard with deep regret.

Limerick, 26 June 1894
From the funeral report it would appear that Elizabeth Considine had married into a wealthy and prominent family in Limerick:

The funeral of the late Mr John Butler, victualler, Bedford Row, whose peculiarly sad demise, at the early age of 32 years, we recorded in our last issue, took place to-day. This cortege was very large and representative, the utmost of sympathy being everywhere expressed with Mr Butler's widow in her great affliction. There were many members of the Limerick Amateur Opera Company present to pay a last mark of respect to one who took the greatest interest in it since its formation, and who was held in the highest esteem by a very large circle of friends in the city. The chief mourners were Messrs John and Pierce Butler (uncles); Charles Ryan [married to deceased's sister], Martin Honan [married to Susanna Considine], and Michael Considine, Ennis (brothers-in-law). Amongst the general public were — The Rev Dr Hallinan, Adm, St Michael's; Rev Fr O'Grady, CC, do; Rev Fr O'Donnell, CC, do; Rev Fr Hanway, OSF; Rev Fr Hanrahan, OSA; Rev Fr Dunlon, OSA; The Mayor, Messrs James O'Mara, J P; John Guinane, J P; M Spam, T C; P O'Malley, John Clune J P; David Begley, J O'Halloran, F Van eesbeck, J Foran, J P M'Namara, Patrick Herbert, T C; Alderman Riordan, J Anglim, T C; J P Hogan, Michael Clancy, Martin M'Guire, J Wallace, Robert McDonnell, J P, Town Clerk; Joseph Gaffney, T C; Stephen Hastings, John Coffey, E Tobin, Michael O'Halloran, George street; Edmond Barry, Stephen Hall, J Buckley, William O'Connell, Thomas Buckley, Peter Cronin, John Portley, Walter Brazier, Michael O'Brien, Bernard Skinner, Joseph Peel, Daniel Donovan, Joseph Bourke, E G Long, Michael Ryan, Cornelius Devane, R Devane, Edmond O'Connell, Patrick Collins, R Turner, Daniel Tucker, M McDonnell, TC; Oliver Ray, William Bateman, Patrick Kelly, Michael Halpin, John Halpin, Wm O'Connell, Christopher Troy, Patrick O'Connor, James Forrest, David Gilligan, Stephen Sullivan, John O'Neill, James Wallace, John O'Donnell, Owen Org?n, M Monahan, E M E McCartie, Catherine-street; William Higgins, Bartholmew Hurley, Thomas McCarthy, Wm McNamara, Thomas McSweeney, J Delaney, George-street.

Limerick, June 1894
The above newspaper clippings were from a Butler family tree on ancestry with little information on Elizabeth Considine (parents listed incorrectly).

John William Francis Butler, 7 Catherine Street, was born on 10 October 1894 to parents John Butler, deceased, victualler, and Elizabeth Considine. Their son died on 25 December 1895. Not sure where Elizabeth Considine Butler was recorded in the 1901 and 1911 census. A widow of a farmer, Elizabeth Butler, of Trinity House, 31 Catherine Street, Limerick, died on 15 December 1968 at the reported age of 94 years.

The marriage of Elizabeth Considine, the daughter of John Considine, into a prosperous Limerick family of victuallers, does highlight the importance of class in 19th century Ireland. I reckon it is looking increasingly likely that John Considine (1815 - 1875), Margaret Considine McMahon (1818 - 1907), Catherine Considine Spellissy (1822 - 1877), and Patrick Considine (1830 - 1887) were indeed siblings. Under this scenario, the two Considine sons married into a wealthy merchant family; the two Considine daughters married into victualler families. Something to consider: despite it being extremely common for the son of a victualler to marry the daughter of a victualler, the children of John Considine (1815 - 1875) and Patrick Considine (1830 - 1887), did not marry the children of Margaret Considine McMahon (1818 - 1907) and Catherine Considine Spellissy (1822 - 1877). Why? because they were first cousins.

It will be interesting when the death record for the Michael Considine who died in Ennis in 1864 at the age of 70 years becomes available on-line. Born about 1794, this Michael Considine would be a good age to be the father of John Considine born in 1815. The occupation, marital status, location at death as well as informant reported on the death record might provide some interesting clues.

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Re: Michael G. Considine and Daniel O'Connell

Post by Sduddy » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:53 am

Hi Jimbo

Thank you for explaining why I failed to find those mentions of Thady Lynch. I would never in a hundred years have thought of that explanation myself.

About the relationship between Margaret McMahon (nee Considine), Catherine Spellicy (nee Considine), John Considine, Church Street, and Patrick Considine, Mill Street, Jimbo, I’m still not convinced. It would have helped if one of the witnesses at the marriage of Catherine to John Spellicy in 1844 had been a Considine. And there’s no Considine among the sponsors at the baptisms of their children. But, yes, John Spellisy was sponsor at the baptisms of two of the children of John Considine in Church Street (Ellen in 1863 and Susanna in 1865) and I accept that that is good evidence of a relationship.
I think it’s likely enough that the sons and daughters of victuallers and cattle dealers would marry the sons and daughters of others in that line of work. The fathers would have met in the course of their work and would have a good insight into who showed promise and who did not. I am not discounting the evidence you have produced, by any means, but, being a doubting Thomas, am holding back a bit. I do think, for instance, that the fact that none of the children of Pat, John, Margaret and Catherine marry each other is good evidence that they were related.

So far, Patrick in Mill Street and John in Church Street seem to be the most comfortably-off and prosperous Considines in the Ennis of the mid-nineteenth century. Jimbo, if you can’t bear to hear about any more Considines, stop reading now. But if you can, I will introduce you to a John Considine who lived in the latter part of the 18th century and who was definitely very comfortably off. He may be the same John Considine who appears in the Tithe Applotment Books for Ennis (1833) as living in Mill Street (see my last posting above):
The 1813 marriage contract between a Margaret Considine of Ennis and a William Arthur is described (at great length) in an account of the Arthur family of Limerick and Ennistymon: http://thearthurfamilyoflimerickandclar ... tymon.html (scroll down).
Margaret’s father, John Considine, must have been quite prosperous at the time, but if he was a trader who was benefitting from the increased prices brought by the Napoleonic wars, he might have suffered a change of circumstances soon afterwards. William Arthur (of the marriage contract) may be one and the same as the William Arthur Esq of Mill Road (not Mill Street) shown in the Tithe Applotment books for Ennis 1833: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarc ... _00630.pdf

Jimbo, I will send for the record of the death of Michael Considine who died in Ennis in 1864 at the age of 70 years. I expect it will take a couple of weeks to arrive.


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