“Rebecca Arthur, Ashgrove, was this night married to Michael O’Donoghue of Rinanna[?] in [?] in the presence of John Arthur, Daniel Lynch [another illegible name] and William[?] Arthur – Sunday night Aug. 15th 1830 - Fr. Conway C.C.” - (Doora and Kilraghtis parish register)
This Rebecca lived in Stonehall, and died in 1854: a headstone in Kilconry Graveyard is inscribed: "Erected by Michael O'Donohoe in memory of his beloved wife Rebecca O'Donohoe who departed this life 18 November 1854 aged 44 yrs".
“Rebecca” was a name beloved by the Arthurs. There were a few families of Arthurs living in Kilraghtis in the 19th century and here are three Rebeccas who were baptised there:
10th Jan. 1845: Rebecca of John Arthur and Mary Verlin; sponsors: John Verlin, Eliza Arthur.
5th Jun 1848: Rebecca of John Arthur and Bidy Grady; sponsors: Honora Arthur, Pat Davis.
13th Jan. 1856: Rebecca of William Arthur and Mary Hogan; sponsors: Thomas Hogan, Margaret Normile.
This last Rebecca was a sister of William John Arthur, baptised 13th Apr. 1863; sponsors: John Froste, Catherine Arthur. William is living in Cregard, in 1901, and was one of the chief mourners at the funeral of Joe Considine in 1920 (see http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=6785). Rebecca married James Hanrahan, in Kilraghtis, on 16th June, 1893. Her son, William Hanrahan (who seems to be her only son), also attended that funeral.
A Rebecca Arthur, who married James Kelly, Bealnalicka, Ruan, about 1838, may have come from Kilraghtis, but I found no record of the marriage. Their youngest son, Jeremiah, was born in 1853. His son, Mortimer (“Marty” in 1901), became the owner of Morty Kelly’s bar in Ruan. A daughter of Morty was called Becky - maybe she was called after her great grandmother.
Sheila
Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
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Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Sheila,
That "10th Jan. 1845: Rebecca of John Arthur and Mary Verlin; sponsors: John Verlin, Eliza Arthur." caught my eye as my family is related to the Verlins in the 19th century. I put together some notes on the Verlin families at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... milies.htm
Paddy
That "10th Jan. 1845: Rebecca of John Arthur and Mary Verlin; sponsors: John Verlin, Eliza Arthur." caught my eye as my family is related to the Verlins in the 19th century. I put together some notes on the Verlin families at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... milies.htm
Paddy
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Paddy
I had read your piece on the Verlins before, and was interested to read it again - this time more appreciative of the amount of research that goes into even a short article. For some reason those families who died out are especially interesting - a story in themselves, with a beginning and an end. At least I imagine there are no Verlins in Clare now - there were only three families left in 1901 and 1911 - but that's more than enough to start a dynasty. And I sometimes forget that many families, who died out here, continued to thrive on the other side of the ocean.
Another Verlin sponsor, by the way, is Eliza Verlin - she was sponsor at the baptism of Thomas Brew on 30th June 1871.
I looked at the G.R.O. records to check for Verlins and saw that the death of a John Verlin was registered in Galway in 1892, but the "image" shows that he died, aged 17, in the workhouse in Tulla. For some reason some Tulla records are under "Galway". The marriage of Thomas Verlin and Mary Malone, in Tulla chapel, in 1884, also comes under Galway.
Sheila
I had read your piece on the Verlins before, and was interested to read it again - this time more appreciative of the amount of research that goes into even a short article. For some reason those families who died out are especially interesting - a story in themselves, with a beginning and an end. At least I imagine there are no Verlins in Clare now - there were only three families left in 1901 and 1911 - but that's more than enough to start a dynasty. And I sometimes forget that many families, who died out here, continued to thrive on the other side of the ocean.
Another Verlin sponsor, by the way, is Eliza Verlin - she was sponsor at the baptism of Thomas Brew on 30th June 1871.
I looked at the G.R.O. records to check for Verlins and saw that the death of a John Verlin was registered in Galway in 1892, but the "image" shows that he died, aged 17, in the workhouse in Tulla. For some reason some Tulla records are under "Galway". The marriage of Thomas Verlin and Mary Malone, in Tulla chapel, in 1884, also comes under Galway.
Sheila
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Sheila - in researching some Hehirs in Victoria, there is an Eliza Hehir (nee Kelly) who married Thomas Hehir in Drumcliffe 1874 before migrating to South Aus (and then Vic) later in the 1870's. Her death index (registered at Richmond, Vic) March 1935, shows father as James Kelly and mother as Rebecca Arth (ur) age 80 years.
Kerry
Kerry
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Kerry
Thank you for that piece of information. Eliza was one of the Kellys of Dysert whose family tree is the subject of this 2009 posting by smcarberry: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... mond+Kelly
The site shows the marriage of Eliza to Mr. M. Hehir: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hilaryr/ ... html#I2483 , but there’s no note giving further information (there are very informative notes of some of the Kellys) and there’s nothing on the couple’s emigration to Australia and nothing on their children, so your information fills a gap.
The marriage date is way out, but I think Raymond Kelly collected much of his information in the 1960s when obtaining records was so very much more difficult that it is now.
Sheila
Thank you for that piece of information. Eliza was one of the Kellys of Dysert whose family tree is the subject of this 2009 posting by smcarberry: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... mond+Kelly
The site shows the marriage of Eliza to Mr. M. Hehir: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hilaryr/ ... html#I2483 , but there’s no note giving further information (there are very informative notes of some of the Kellys) and there’s nothing on the couple’s emigration to Australia and nothing on their children, so your information fills a gap.
The marriage date is way out, but I think Raymond Kelly collected much of his information in the 1960s when obtaining records was so very much more difficult that it is now.
Sheila
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
I am a little unsure as to whether one should do this at night as confusion reigns - however, my Arthur antecedents have left little in the way of information but have discovered with all this material now available that my GG grandmother Margaret Arthur was born at Cragard and as everyone there appears to be Arthur can one assume they are related. I have been able to tie in two brothers Michael and Patrick and perhaps two others John and James - and a sister Catherine. This information I have cobbled together from Tithe Applotment, Griffiths, and baptism records. Should one do this or should one go to bed before all becomes messy. 
Anyone else related to these Arthurs - most of Michael's children came to Australia, one of Patrick's and the rest, goodness knows.
So the question remains - does this Rebecca belong to this lot of Arthurs - the name does not repeat- but the area is familiar.
Margaret Fullarton
Anyone else related to these Arthurs - most of Michael's children came to Australia, one of Patrick's and the rest, goodness knows.So the question remains - does this Rebecca belong to this lot of Arthurs - the name does not repeat- but the area is familiar.
Margaret Fullarton
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Margaret
Yes, there seems to have been number of Arthur families in Craggard. I know a little about the children of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara, who feature in the Doora-Kilraghtis parish register, but the family you belong to may not be the same one. These are the baptismal records for the children of Michael and Bridget:
7th Feb. 1828: Jacobus, Cragard, of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: John Arthur, Catherine Sheedy.
13th Nov. 1830: Margaret Arthur of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: Michl. McAuliff, Mary Hanlan.
21st April 1833: Margaret Arthur, of Cregard of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: Daniel McNamara, Ellen Kennedy.
6th Sept. 1835: Ellen Arthur of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: James McNamara, Catherine Arthur.
I’m sure that Michael and Bridget had several more children - I may have missed some and there is also a high omission rate in those records.
Ellen born in 1835 was of particular interest to me because her first husband, James Brew, features in my own family tree. A friend found some records for Ellen and sent them to me. One shows her passage to Australia in 1857. This gives “Kilrath” as her place of birth (“Kilrath” was given for “Kilraghtis” by others going from that parish – http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... rath#p7101). Two of Ellen’s brothers emigrated with her and two sisters emigrated afterwards.
In 1884, her brother, James Arthur, died leaving his farm in Bendigo to Ellen. This was allotment 57 in the parish of Leichardt, a freehold of 92 acres, 1 rood, 24 perches, “fenced all round with choc and log fencing and post and rail, forty acres ploughed and sown, two roomed weather-board house an kitchen, cow yard. The whole being valued at £277” – also allotment 65 in the parish of Leichardt, a freehold of 20 acres, “fenced and cleared”, valued at £60. The contents of the farm was valued at £112: the fencing was valued at £15; eight tons of hay @ £1 unhussed was valued at £8; one old wagon - £10; one horse rake (old) - £4; reaping machine (old) - £4; pair of harrows - £2. 10s; plough - £2; dray - £2; three horses valued at £3, £7 and £20 respectively - £30; harness - £1; thirteen head of cattle at two pounds per head - £26; five calves - £2. 10s; furniture - £5.
Ellen married Francis James Brew, in Sandhurst, Bendigo, Victoria, on Mar. 3rd 1886 (it’s a mystery why James was recorded as “Francis James” - his brother Francey was alive and well at home). The record states that Ellen is from Co. Clare, aged 36; parents: Michael Arthur, Farmer, and Bridget McNamara. The witnesses to the marriage were James Guthrie, Margaret Carroll. Ellen’s true age in 1886 would have been 50, but “ all’s fair in love and war”.
James died in Arthur’s Bridge, Leichardt, Shire of Marong, County of Bendigo, Victoria, on 16th May 1896, aged 56. The record states that he was without issue. Ellen married again two years later. Her second husband, Patrick Griffey, predeceased her. She died in 1915 leaving her farm and savings to her three nieces.
Does any of this tally with your findings?
Sheila
Yes, there seems to have been number of Arthur families in Craggard. I know a little about the children of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara, who feature in the Doora-Kilraghtis parish register, but the family you belong to may not be the same one. These are the baptismal records for the children of Michael and Bridget:
7th Feb. 1828: Jacobus, Cragard, of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: John Arthur, Catherine Sheedy.
13th Nov. 1830: Margaret Arthur of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: Michl. McAuliff, Mary Hanlan.
21st April 1833: Margaret Arthur, of Cregard of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: Daniel McNamara, Ellen Kennedy.
6th Sept. 1835: Ellen Arthur of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara; sponsors: James McNamara, Catherine Arthur.
I’m sure that Michael and Bridget had several more children - I may have missed some and there is also a high omission rate in those records.
Ellen born in 1835 was of particular interest to me because her first husband, James Brew, features in my own family tree. A friend found some records for Ellen and sent them to me. One shows her passage to Australia in 1857. This gives “Kilrath” as her place of birth (“Kilrath” was given for “Kilraghtis” by others going from that parish – http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... rath#p7101). Two of Ellen’s brothers emigrated with her and two sisters emigrated afterwards.
In 1884, her brother, James Arthur, died leaving his farm in Bendigo to Ellen. This was allotment 57 in the parish of Leichardt, a freehold of 92 acres, 1 rood, 24 perches, “fenced all round with choc and log fencing and post and rail, forty acres ploughed and sown, two roomed weather-board house an kitchen, cow yard. The whole being valued at £277” – also allotment 65 in the parish of Leichardt, a freehold of 20 acres, “fenced and cleared”, valued at £60. The contents of the farm was valued at £112: the fencing was valued at £15; eight tons of hay @ £1 unhussed was valued at £8; one old wagon - £10; one horse rake (old) - £4; reaping machine (old) - £4; pair of harrows - £2. 10s; plough - £2; dray - £2; three horses valued at £3, £7 and £20 respectively - £30; harness - £1; thirteen head of cattle at two pounds per head - £26; five calves - £2. 10s; furniture - £5.
Ellen married Francis James Brew, in Sandhurst, Bendigo, Victoria, on Mar. 3rd 1886 (it’s a mystery why James was recorded as “Francis James” - his brother Francey was alive and well at home). The record states that Ellen is from Co. Clare, aged 36; parents: Michael Arthur, Farmer, and Bridget McNamara. The witnesses to the marriage were James Guthrie, Margaret Carroll. Ellen’s true age in 1886 would have been 50, but “ all’s fair in love and war”.
James died in Arthur’s Bridge, Leichardt, Shire of Marong, County of Bendigo, Victoria, on 16th May 1896, aged 56. The record states that he was without issue. Ellen married again two years later. Her second husband, Patrick Griffey, predeceased her. She died in 1915 leaving her farm and savings to her three nieces.
Does any of this tally with your findings?
Sheila
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Goodness me Sheila - I don't need to tell you anything - how on earth did you get all this info - I have only just discovered Ellen's will!! I am called after one of her nieces, Margaret Ellen Patterson Hackett who is my g grandmother. I found out that Ellen had married again from another McNamara researcher and while I spent my teenage years not far from these towns I had no idea we were so entrenched in the area. I know from some old letters that they all took care of each other and helped each other to settle but what a rude awakening it must have been.
Margaret and Mary Arthur arrived in 1854 and then the cousins (Mcnamara from Crusheen and Arthur) arrived together and some went to live with Margaret and then she married a Scotsman named Duncan Patterson and you say all is fair in etc - well Duncan had left 2 wives behind in Glasgow and said he was a bachelor. Oh for the good old days!
I am interested in Patrick Arthur and Elizabeth McNamara as their son Patrick died not long after arriving in Melbourne so perhaps they had more children. And of course, Arthur's Bridge where James Brew died is called after James Arthur. I am not sure if it is still around. I shall do a little tour now I am retired!
Thank you so much for all this info - It is a blessing finding all these generous genealogists around!!
Margaret Fullarton
Margaret and Mary Arthur arrived in 1854 and then the cousins (Mcnamara from Crusheen and Arthur) arrived together and some went to live with Margaret and then she married a Scotsman named Duncan Patterson and you say all is fair in etc - well Duncan had left 2 wives behind in Glasgow and said he was a bachelor. Oh for the good old days!
I am interested in Patrick Arthur and Elizabeth McNamara as their son Patrick died not long after arriving in Melbourne so perhaps they had more children. And of course, Arthur's Bridge where James Brew died is called after James Arthur. I am not sure if it is still around. I shall do a little tour now I am retired!
Thank you so much for all this info - It is a blessing finding all these generous genealogists around!!
Margaret Fullarton
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Margaret
Ellen’s fib about her age pales to whiter than white when compared with Duncan’s trigamy.
So the family I described is yours. After writing to you, I looked again at the Doora-Kilraghtis baptisms and found the baptism of Catherine of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara, on 18th Jul. 1825, and I began to think it must be the same family.
Also I realised that you were the person who had contributed information on the Arthurs and McNamaras to the database donated to clarelibrary.ie http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ataset.htm. The information on that site is very helpful - thank you very much for your contribution to it.
I had to invade your family in order to find out about my own relative. I’m sorry if I made it look like James Arthur described his farm in minute detail in his will; the valuation was attached to the will and I thought it would interest people to hear about a farm in Australia for a change.
To get a will made in Victoria, go to http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/wills-and-probate and follow the instructions. It’s free up to 1926 but slow to download.
Melbourne Cemeteries have a very good way of showing their records once you figure it out.
GMCT stands for The Greater Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust, so: Google "GMCT"
Click on "Deceased Search"
Select the cemetery from the drop down list. Enter surname. Leave “Given Names” blank. Click “accept conditions” and “search”. Scroll down. If you find the name you want, click “Show Map” over at the right. On the right hand side of that page you will see “Deceased Details” with little arrows at each side. When you click on those arrows, you will find all who were buried in that grave.
I’m afraid I know nothing about Patrick Arthur and Elizabeth McNamara, but I would like to know more. I gather that Elizabeth was a sibling of Bridget McNamara and that several of their children went to Australia. When did Patrick Arthur arrive in Melbourne?
I’m also curious (because of a query I got from another source) about the McNamara family from Crusheen whose details you have entered on that data base: they are the children of Patrick McNamara and Bridget Hogan: Catherine, Ellen, James, John, Margaret, Mary, Patrick and Thomas, all born in the 1830s, four of whom sailed on the Grand Trianon (James, Catherine, Mary and Margaret) arriving in Melbourne on 25th May 1857. I assume that the parents, Patrick and Bridget, remained at home in Crusheen. Is that Patrick (senior) also a sibling of Bridget McNamara? Is there a possibility that the four who sailed in the Grand Trianon belong to another McNamara family from Crusheen?
Sheila
Ellen’s fib about her age pales to whiter than white when compared with Duncan’s trigamy.
So the family I described is yours. After writing to you, I looked again at the Doora-Kilraghtis baptisms and found the baptism of Catherine of Michael Arthur and Bridget McNamara, on 18th Jul. 1825, and I began to think it must be the same family.
Also I realised that you were the person who had contributed information on the Arthurs and McNamaras to the database donated to clarelibrary.ie http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ataset.htm. The information on that site is very helpful - thank you very much for your contribution to it.
I had to invade your family in order to find out about my own relative. I’m sorry if I made it look like James Arthur described his farm in minute detail in his will; the valuation was attached to the will and I thought it would interest people to hear about a farm in Australia for a change.
To get a will made in Victoria, go to http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/wills-and-probate and follow the instructions. It’s free up to 1926 but slow to download.
Melbourne Cemeteries have a very good way of showing their records once you figure it out.
GMCT stands for The Greater Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust, so: Google "GMCT"
Click on "Deceased Search"
Select the cemetery from the drop down list. Enter surname. Leave “Given Names” blank. Click “accept conditions” and “search”. Scroll down. If you find the name you want, click “Show Map” over at the right. On the right hand side of that page you will see “Deceased Details” with little arrows at each side. When you click on those arrows, you will find all who were buried in that grave.
I’m afraid I know nothing about Patrick Arthur and Elizabeth McNamara, but I would like to know more. I gather that Elizabeth was a sibling of Bridget McNamara and that several of their children went to Australia. When did Patrick Arthur arrive in Melbourne?
I’m also curious (because of a query I got from another source) about the McNamara family from Crusheen whose details you have entered on that data base: they are the children of Patrick McNamara and Bridget Hogan: Catherine, Ellen, James, John, Margaret, Mary, Patrick and Thomas, all born in the 1830s, four of whom sailed on the Grand Trianon (James, Catherine, Mary and Margaret) arriving in Melbourne on 25th May 1857. I assume that the parents, Patrick and Bridget, remained at home in Crusheen. Is that Patrick (senior) also a sibling of Bridget McNamara? Is there a possibility that the four who sailed in the Grand Trianon belong to another McNamara family from Crusheen?
Sheila
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Sheila
last question first - those are our McNamaras - Patrick being the brother of Elizabeth and Brigid Arthur. Yes, they came in waves and helped each other as they settled. I am uploading a couple of letters you might enjoy - Patrick's granddaughter called her house in Bendigo Krusheen and she lived with all those McNamara and Arthur people all her life. She mentions the Hacketts and I would never have even thought these illiterate settlers to have wills but my distant cousin Joanne who is a descendant of a Hackett/Patterson as am I, told me about one of the Tipp Dowling ancestor's will ( where we discovered the interchangeable use of Johanna/Judith ) and now you with James Arthur's will and then found Ellen Arthur Griffey's will which then led me to looking for the parish maps of Leichardt and Derby and there are their little plots of land with their names on them - so exciting for me! So all this extrapolation pays off in the end. I've even got my sister interested in a little tour of farms and cemeteries. We are in awe of them all because we know what the country is like! (Paterson Hackett on Ancestry and Hackett Antecedents on My Heritage for any McNamara info I have)
I do know that Patrick Arthur, son of Patrick died about 3 years after arriving and he is buried with his cousin Margaret ARthur Patterson and the lively Dunc in Melbourne GC - named as brother in law, and wondered if there were any more but haven't found any. Your finding Catherine was a bonus as in Ancestry it says mother Honora but looking at the scan you can see it is Brigid.
So James Brew - his name I cannot find on the map so was he a farmer - he did not leave a will but it seems Ellen Arthur did not let any grass grow under her feet - so maybe she just took over. Do we know a little of his history - someone did contact me but she had far more info than I and then I heard no more.
And this Rebecca Arthur - any relation to the above lot? Sorry to have taken up so much of your time Sheila - where are you?
Margaret Fullarton
OK can't upload but if you want I can send them via email
Margaret
last question first - those are our McNamaras - Patrick being the brother of Elizabeth and Brigid Arthur. Yes, they came in waves and helped each other as they settled. I am uploading a couple of letters you might enjoy - Patrick's granddaughter called her house in Bendigo Krusheen and she lived with all those McNamara and Arthur people all her life. She mentions the Hacketts and I would never have even thought these illiterate settlers to have wills but my distant cousin Joanne who is a descendant of a Hackett/Patterson as am I, told me about one of the Tipp Dowling ancestor's will ( where we discovered the interchangeable use of Johanna/Judith ) and now you with James Arthur's will and then found Ellen Arthur Griffey's will which then led me to looking for the parish maps of Leichardt and Derby and there are their little plots of land with their names on them - so exciting for me! So all this extrapolation pays off in the end. I've even got my sister interested in a little tour of farms and cemeteries. We are in awe of them all because we know what the country is like! (Paterson Hackett on Ancestry and Hackett Antecedents on My Heritage for any McNamara info I have)
I do know that Patrick Arthur, son of Patrick died about 3 years after arriving and he is buried with his cousin Margaret ARthur Patterson and the lively Dunc in Melbourne GC - named as brother in law, and wondered if there were any more but haven't found any. Your finding Catherine was a bonus as in Ancestry it says mother Honora but looking at the scan you can see it is Brigid.
So James Brew - his name I cannot find on the map so was he a farmer - he did not leave a will but it seems Ellen Arthur did not let any grass grow under her feet - so maybe she just took over. Do we know a little of his history - someone did contact me but she had far more info than I and then I heard no more.
And this Rebecca Arthur - any relation to the above lot? Sorry to have taken up so much of your time Sheila - where are you?
Margaret Fullarton
OK can't upload but if you want I can send them via email
Margaret
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Aaaand - why no naming patterns as in Tipperary family or Scottish family - no Michael, no Brigid - is it not normal in Clare? Any ideas? Also learnt a little geography since adding to the emigrant list - Cashel? naughty moi - it was the Hacketts who were from that area.
Margaret F
Margaret F
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smcarberry
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Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Such an interesting thread, with echoes of what I have been finding in other research on Clare families. The observation on the interchangeable use of Johanna and Judith is seen also for a Moroney woman in the mid 1800s, Parish of O'Callaghan's Mills. The younger Verlin men from that parish emigrated to Rockford, Illinois, where likewise a Hehir grandson of my family's Bridget Carberry lived out his life.
I have not a lot to add of use, other than to report that I am currently following a McMahon man who left the Dysert area for a civil service position in Dublin, married Church of Ireland woman in 1887, and proceeded to have children baptized in both RC and COI churches, only some of whom later used their names listed in their baptism records. One had the apparent reason to avoid being confused with her aunt of the same personal name, likewise named after the matriarch of the McMahon bride's family.
Remember that infant mortality removes some names from later family records, at least where the parents don't reuse the names.
I look forward to reading your continued findings.
Sharon Carberry
I have not a lot to add of use, other than to report that I am currently following a McMahon man who left the Dysert area for a civil service position in Dublin, married Church of Ireland woman in 1887, and proceeded to have children baptized in both RC and COI churches, only some of whom later used their names listed in their baptism records. One had the apparent reason to avoid being confused with her aunt of the same personal name, likewise named after the matriarch of the McMahon bride's family.
Remember that infant mortality removes some names from later family records, at least where the parents don't reuse the names.
I look forward to reading your continued findings.
Sharon Carberry
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Sharon
yes, some of the names are reused but in this family there is no naming for mother/father/grandparents etc. It makes me a bit wary about committing findings to paper - at least my software alerts me to the more glaring mistakes such as dates but with names confusion reigns.
Oh well, as I said before, the generousity of fellow searchers makes a huge difference!
Margaret F
yes, some of the names are reused but in this family there is no naming for mother/father/grandparents etc. It makes me a bit wary about committing findings to paper - at least my software alerts me to the more glaring mistakes such as dates but with names confusion reigns.
Oh well, as I said before, the generousity of fellow searchers makes a huge difference!
Margaret F
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Hi Margaret
Yes there was a naming pattern, which is explained by P Waldron a couple of times on this forum – but I can’t find those explanations right now.
As smcarberry indicated, we can never be sure that the child who bore one of the “required” names did not die in infancy. For instance, there may have been a Michael Arthur, called after his father, and a Bridget Arthur, called after her mother, but both may have died soon after birth. Also there is a possibility that there was a Michael who remained at home, but did not live long enough to have his death registered (after 1864) - and even then some deaths were not registered. Likewise with Bridget. It was very possible to live and die and leave no trace at all – at least no trace that has survived.
I gather from what you’ve said about Catherine that she also went to Victoria. Am I right in that? I ask because there is a Kate Arthur who married Tom McNamara on 22nd May 1847: witnesses: Pat McNamara, John (illegible) (Doora and Kilraghtis parish register).
No, I haven’t found a Rebecca in your family. The William Arthur and Mary Hogan, who were the parents of Rebecca born in 1857, lived in Cragged, but I have no way of knowing for sure which of the Arthur families from Cragard this William belonged to. I suspect he was the William Arthur, who is shown in Griffith’s as leasing Plot 1a: House, offices and 135 acres, from Col. George Wyndham. The rateable value of the house was £4. 10s, which means that it was a substantial house by comparison with the houses around.
I must tell you that what you call “a little plot” - a farm of 92 acres - would have been considered a very comfortable farm in Ireland. By our standards, James Arthur did very well for himself in Australia.
I am sending you a Private Message with my email address. Thank you for kind offer to send those letters.
Sheila
Yes there was a naming pattern, which is explained by P Waldron a couple of times on this forum – but I can’t find those explanations right now.
As smcarberry indicated, we can never be sure that the child who bore one of the “required” names did not die in infancy. For instance, there may have been a Michael Arthur, called after his father, and a Bridget Arthur, called after her mother, but both may have died soon after birth. Also there is a possibility that there was a Michael who remained at home, but did not live long enough to have his death registered (after 1864) - and even then some deaths were not registered. Likewise with Bridget. It was very possible to live and die and leave no trace at all – at least no trace that has survived.
I gather from what you’ve said about Catherine that she also went to Victoria. Am I right in that? I ask because there is a Kate Arthur who married Tom McNamara on 22nd May 1847: witnesses: Pat McNamara, John (illegible) (Doora and Kilraghtis parish register).
No, I haven’t found a Rebecca in your family. The William Arthur and Mary Hogan, who were the parents of Rebecca born in 1857, lived in Cragged, but I have no way of knowing for sure which of the Arthur families from Cragard this William belonged to. I suspect he was the William Arthur, who is shown in Griffith’s as leasing Plot 1a: House, offices and 135 acres, from Col. George Wyndham. The rateable value of the house was £4. 10s, which means that it was a substantial house by comparison with the houses around.
I must tell you that what you call “a little plot” - a farm of 92 acres - would have been considered a very comfortable farm in Ireland. By our standards, James Arthur did very well for himself in Australia.
I am sending you a Private Message with my email address. Thank you for kind offer to send those letters.
Sheila
Re: Rebecca Arthur - married by moonlight?
Further to the Eliza Hehir (nee Kelly), whose parents were James and Rebecca Arthur of Ruan: after her immigration to SA, then Vic, they had their 2 children at Sandhurst (near Bendigo). It is highly likely she is related to the other Kellys living in that district, given the very common practice of chain migration to Australia.
a list of those Kellys arriving also in 1876 may ascertain if other Kellys travelled with the young couple:
http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/sites/def ... _J-K_0.pdf
cheers, Kerry
a list of those Kellys arriving also in 1876 may ascertain if other Kellys travelled with the young couple:
http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/sites/def ... _J-K_0.pdf
cheers, Kerry