Grogan and Quinlivan of Kilrush and Limerick

[Sduddy]

Hi all

It has taken me a couple of days to come around to accepting that women did not attend funerals in the late nineteenth century. I've been talking to a few people and one person says that this practice continued in Donegal until well into the twentieth century. I think Murf is right in saying that by 1909 women were beginning to attend. Here is a report on the funeral of Michael Glynn which was published in The Clare Journal January 18th, 1909. Michael's wife was Hannah Teresa Kennedy of Limerick which accounts for the number of Kennedys among the mourners. The report includes a few women mourners.

Sheila

[mgallery]

Thanks for posting that. I see my gt grandfather David Gallery on it. His daughter married a Knockaderra Glynn. Who was Michael Glynn of Ennis. Was he the Knockaderra Glynns or another Glynn family. I believe they are all related although the Knockaderra Glynns say they are not related to the Kilrush Glynns but married into them

[Sduddy]

Yes, I am fairly sure that Michael was a younger son of Denis Glynn and Anne (Nancy) McNamara of Knockaderra.
Doora-Kilraghtis parish records (which include baptisms for Templemaley) show the baptisms of two older sons, Bartley (of Denis Glynn and Nancy McNamara) on 22nd August, 1837, and Denis (of Denis Glynn and Nancy McNamara) on 21st September, 1839.
A headstone there in Corrovorrin is inscribed “Erected by Mrs. Anne Glynn of Knockaderra in memory of her beloved husband Dennis Glynn P.L.G. died 20th March 1882 aged 76 years”.
The only evidence I have that Michael is a brother of Bartley is that Bartley's house, "Greenhills", and land in the townland of Cahircalla More, Drumcliff, transferred to Michael on the death of Bartley about 1880.

Sheila

[mgallery]

I assume Bartley is a form of Batholemew which seems to be a Glynn name and is the only way I know that there may be a connection with the Kilrush Glynns

I will ask my Glynn cousins who probably know some of whom (Niamh ) still live in Knockaderra. Denis (Dinny) Glynn married Josephine Gallery daughter of David Gallery, her sister Mary also married a Glynn I forget the name but Dinny's brother. they are mentioned in the funeral report and I assume if my gt grandfather went Michael was fairly closely related to them. I know Declan Barron of Newpark house had an interest in Glynns but apologies we are hijacking the thread which should be in three at this stage as there are three seperate topics on it.

Margaret

[mgallery]

Correction that was D, Gallery Lahinch so probably a Daniel Gallery from the Ennistymon Lahinch branch. My gt grandfather was either dead or very old then (I forget which). His sons in law are there or sons in law to be.

[pwaldron]

Seán Glynn of Knockaderry, son of Thomas Glynn and Mary Gallery, shares a grave with Michael Glynn of Jail Street:

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ptions.htm
In Fond and Loving | Memory | of Michael Glynn | Jail Street Ennis | who died on 12th January | 1909 aged 56 year | also of his children | Thomas Agnes and Francis | May they rest in peace | Mary Glynn (nee Dillon) | died 12 Jan 2001 | Sean Glynn | Knockaderra | died 7 May 2006 aged 85 yrs

[mgallery]

I gave the Glynns a call and got one cousin, others know more they said. Declan Barron told me before he has a copy of Mary Glynn nee Gallerys obit which probably explains a lot. Thomas Glynn who married Mary Gallery was born in Knockaderra house which is a bigger farmhouse and was the landlords house. Thomas lived at Knockaderra which was a cottage His son was Christy who had sons Sean and Tony. If you go to Knockaderra then I think the cottage Thomas and Mary lived in is gone. Mico and Mae Glynn lived in Knockaderra house, Francie and his wifeTess lived in Ennis. Tess died lately. The house got left to Mae who gave it to Noel Glynn (Francies son, who sold it after some years for building). I think Noel lives in Limerick.
Francie, Mico and Mary were first cousins of Tony (of Glynns coaches) and Sean Glynn so whoever owned Knockaderra house was Christy's brother.

Sean Glynn son of Thomas had no chidren had a farm he sold (I thought it was closer to Ennis) and some of his nephews built houses on sites they bought from him. (Paul Glynn). So we do know they are all related.
Corrovorin where Michael Glynn died 1909 is buried is out near knockaderra. As Sean Glynn is buried in the grave as well Micahel must have come from knockaderra

I suspect from the 1909 obit that John Glynn was Thomas's father, you seen Denis Thomas's his brother mentioned (who married Mary Gallerys sister Josephine Gallery and lived on Jail street in Ennis - they had a hotel/[pub/shop/boarding house). They had no children. Pat and Michael are also mentioned so one of those brothers must have got knockaderra house

rgds

Margaret

[mgallery]

I just noticed this in a previous post


NEGHS database:
Springfield, Massachusetts, Marriage Records 1910
No. 470 marriage date: June 21, 1910
groom: Edward McNamara age 28, occupation: driver, b. Ireland, residing Springfield, parents: John McNamara, Bridget Clune
bride: Margaret Glynn, age 32, residing 22 Queen St., Springfield, occup: at home, b. Ireland, parents: Dennis Glynn, Margaret M. Kelly
by whom married: James P. Curran, Priest

[mgallery]

Also this mentioning rev P Glynn

http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... lynn#p1757

and http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... lynn#p1173

and one mentioning General John Glynn

http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... lynn#p1173
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... =108434892
I wonder if he is the same family born 1841 in Clare

irth: May 22, 1841
Death: Apr. 5, 1913

Biography of Glynn, Gen. John Jr., Orleans Parish, Louisiana
Submitted by Mike Miller September 2000

**********************************************
Copyright. All rights reserved.
http://usgwarchives.net/copyright.htm
http://usgwarchives.net/la/lafiles.htm
**********************************************

Gen. John Glynn Jr., secretary of the eastern system and general agent for the Queen & Crescent railroad, was born in Ireland, County Clare, in the year 1841. At the age of five years he came with his parents to New Orleans, La., where he was reared and finished his education in 1858. He
commenced his career by entering the counting house of Horrell, Goyle & Co., where he remained until the outbreak of the war. He at once offered his services to his country, and entered as a private with the Orleans guards of light artillery. The battery operated with the western army through the campaign battle of Chickamauga, after which, by the request of General Beauregard, this battery was transferred to Charlestown to operate as an effective light battery. Our subject actually served three and
one-half years, and 365 days in the year, doing constant and active service, not even being sick or wounded, or at any time away from his post, for 1,283 days. He took part in the engagements of battery of Farmington, Perryville, Chickamauga, Bentonville, etc. After hostilities ceased he
entered the employ of B. M. Horrell & Co., and finally succeeded the firm, doing a general grain and produce business. Conducting a successful business until 1879, he retired and was elected administrator of public accounts of New Orleans, under the bureau system of city affairs, which office he filled with distinction and satisfaction for ten years. After this he became connected with the Northeastern railroad in construction as general agent, and for the last three years has been the resident agent of
the Queen & Crescent railroad, of which the Northeastern is the southern division. He subsequently was elected secretary of the same road. He took an active part in organizing the Louisiana field artillery of Battery C, of
which he was appointed captain in January, 1882, and later colonel of the regiment. He was appointed major-general in command of the First district.
In 18- Mr. Glynn was united in the bonds of matrimony with Miss Marie Ermence Viguard,
sister of Henry Viguard, secretary of the American legation at Paris. Socially Mr. Glynn is a member of the Pickwick club.

Biographical and Historical Memoires of Louisiana, (vol. 1), pp. 446-447.
Published by the Goodspeed Publishing Company, Chicago, 1892.

[mgallery]

see new thread on Glynns

[pwaldron]

Back to the original topic of this thread ...

I finally made it to the National Archives this week and saw the two administration packets for Mary Grogan née Quinlivan.

All of Mary's children predeceased her, including Edward and Mary, whom I had not previously accounted for. Her surviving next of kin included her brother Edward in Minnesota. He was back in Ireland on 12 February 1906, staying at Baltard House with their father's first cousin Fr. Laurence Browne. However, he gave power of attorney to administer his sister's estate first to Fr. Browne and after the latter's death to another possible relative, Michael Killeen, solicitor.

Fr. Laurence Browne swore in his oath for administrator on 1 Aug 1906 that `Mary Grogan late of Market Square Kilrush in the County of Clare Widow, deceased, died intestate and a widow without husband child grandchild greatgrandchild or other descendants surviving and without father or mother but leaving as her only next of kin Edward Quinlivan of Saint Pauls City Minnesota U.S. America her sole lawful brother and the children of her deceased brother Patrick Quinlivan some of whom I believe reside in Australia [but whose names or present addresses I do not know]'. The part which I have typed in square brackets was struck out. The back of the oath was endorsed `We hereby certify that it will be necessary to administer the estate of the deceased in the chancery division of the High Court of Justice in Ireland as there will have to be an enquiry to ascertain the next of kin. The grant to be impounded as administrator unable to give security. This 14th Augt. 1906. Bennett Morrisson & McLaughlin' [solicitors].

In the High Court of Justice in Ireland, Chancery Division on 21 Jan 1907 (1906/No. 1322), Mr. Justice Barton made an order in the matter of the estate of Mary Grogan deceased, Rev. Laurence J. Browne, Plaintiff, and Summerland Quinlivan and Ors., Defendants, that the personal estate of the sd. decceased should be administered under the direction of said court. It was directed that enquiries be made as to the next of kin and assets of said deceased. It might be worth looking for a report of this order in the newspapers of the time. The person on duty in the National Archives this week did not think that it would be possible to find the papers for this High Court case, but it might be worth asking again.

The chief clerk's certificate was filed on 23 Jul 1909.

Michael Killeen swore in his oath for administrator on 13 Jan 1910 that `Mary Grogan late of Market Square Kilrush Co Clare Widow, deceased, died intestate a widow without child, grandchild or other descendant or parent her surviving' and `letters of administration of her personal estate were granted to the Reverend Laurence J. Browne the lawful attorney of Edward Quinlivan the lawful brother and next of kin of said deceased.'

As Patrick Quinlivan in Australia used Neville as one of his middle names, I am fairly happy that Mrs. Grogan was a daughter of another Patrick Quinlivan and his wife Eliza Neville, who were married at St. Mary's in Limerick on 15 October 1830. If so, then her age was overstated in 1901 (70) and when she died in 1905 (80). rootsireland.ie reports her "Date of Birth" [sic] from the baptismal register of St. Michael's as 14-Jul-1836, but I haven't been able to verify that at
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0895
If anyone else finds the original record from which the rootsireland.ie extract was taken, I would appreciate it if a link to the relevant page could be posted here.

I have verified Edward's baptism on 24 December 1831 at
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls0 ... 4/mode/1up
He appears to have been the oldest child, born just over a year after the parents' marriage. I have found him in a lodging house in St. Paul in the 1900 U.S. census, but have so far found no record of his 1906 visit home to Ireland.

rootsireland.ie does not appear to have any record of Patrick Quinlivan junior's baptism, but Australian descendants give his birthdate as 17 June 1836, impossibly close to rootsireland.ie's date for Mary the following month.

Patrick had two wives and 16 children in Australia. These are widely documented, e.g. at
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin ... d&id=I2862
or
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1084920281
or
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 0992751167
or
http://genforum.genealogy.com/australia ... /2181.html
or
http://www.sellstrom.net/sims/pafg07.htm#217

One puzzle solved, but lots of other interesting questions raised!

[Jimbo]

Paddy, will try my best not to stray from your main topic. From the annual St. Paul City Directory we can learn a bit more about your Edward Quinlivan. His occupation was the clerk at the Cavalry Catholic Cemetery in St. Paul. Most likely having so many relatives who were Catholic priests back in Ireland helped Edward secure this position. He is in the St. Paul City Directory starting in 1890 where his occupation is just listed as "clerk", but in later years it states "Calvary Cemetery" and living at 24 College Road - the same residence as the 1900 census. He is listed in the city directory through 1912. Unfortunately, the 1913 or 1914 directories were not available, and by the 1915 directory he is not listed.

In both the 1900 and 1910 census reports for St. Paul, Edward Quinlivan is listed as a widower, and in the 1910 census it states he immigrated to America in 1886:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M93X-VWH
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M2PC-CS8

In 1886, Edward would have been 54 years old. I think to immigrate to America at that age it would be probable that he had some relatives already living in Minnesota. In the St. Paul City Directory there was only one other Quinlivan, also named Edward who arrived in 1881. I think there is a fair chance that this Edward could be the son of your Edward who is listed in the admin packet for Mary Grogan. Fortunately, the younger Edward upon becoming an American citizen in 1890 was extremely unique for an American as he applied for a U.S. passport (see below). This provides details on his birth as 15 August 1857 in Limerick, Ireland.

With this birth date, it would be worth confirming if his father was indeed the Edward Qunilivan who is listed in the Grogan inheritance. Can you check if his birth appears on rootsireland to see if this theory is correct?

The younger Edward Quinlivan first appears in the St. Paul City Directory in 1881 as a carpenter. He would eventually become the superintendent of construction at Standard Oil in St. Paul, and then in later years the chief jailer at the county jail. If he is indeed a descendant of your Quinlivan family, you can obtain more information from the census reports in St. Paul through 1940.

The senior Edward Quinlivan would have been about 74 years old when he returned to Ireland in 1906. From the 1900 and 1910 census reports, Edward was a U.S. citizen. Could find no passport application for him - but I am not sure how strict of a requirement this would have been to travel overseas in 1906. I also had a look for immigration records for his return to the U.S. but came up empty. His circumstances as a boarder do not appear to have changed over the years despite being listed as Mary Grogan's surviving kin. Is there any record in the admin packet of who actually received the inheritance?

On a side note, were the Quinlivans known for being exceptionally tall? On the younger Edward 's passport application in 1890, his height is listed as over 7 feet. But then it states "Inches, Eng."? Not sure if back in the 19th century there was a conversion from "English feet" to the standard 12 inches??

[pwaldron]

Hi Jimbo

You found several bits and pieces that I had missed! In particular, I had not found the 1910 census with the 1886 migration year.

rootsireland.ie currently has no birth matching ed quinlivan from 1851 to 1863 inclusive. The younger Edward Quinlivan of St. Paul may have been born in a parish for which records have not survived.

The contents of the administration packet are slim as the estate was administered by the court. I still hope that I may find details of the court administration on a future visit to the National Archives. If there was anything left over out of the £ 1,877 16s. 4d. after the lawyers had helped themselves, then it had to go 50% to Edward (if he was still alive) and 50% in equal shares to the children of his brother Patrick.

I too wondered about the height of the younger Edward. Your query reminded me that the older Edward's uncle "Mayor Quinlivan was a man of imposing personal appearance and colossal build (being over six-feet-four in his stockings)" (Irish American, 30 Jul 1887).

I was on Scattery Island on Monday and photographed the Grogan vault.

There are other unaccounted for Edward Quinlivans, in particular Edward Quinlivan of Limerick, merchant, son of Patrick Quinlivan, merchant, deceased, who married Elizabeth Johnston in Cork on 23 July 1879. Edward lived at 7 Cecil Street, where his brothers-in-law John and William Johnston(e) died in 1881 and 1882 respectively.

http://www.limerickcity.ie/webapps/Trad ... x?ID=50862
Surname Quinlivan
Forename Edward
Trade (not stated)
Address 7 Cecil Street
RegYear 1886
Directory Guy
Page 630

Edward was therefore still at 7 Cecil Street in 1886 but was gone by Ashe's directory of 1891/2. There's no sign of his death in Ireland, so he must have emigrated.

I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to fit Elizabeth Johnston's husband to the younger Edward Quinlivan of St. Paul, but when I look at the date that he disappeared from Limerick and the date that the older Edward Quinlivan says he emigrated, and his father's name, I'm starting to think that Elizabeth Johnston's husband may be the Edward baptised in 1831. If so, then he was 47 when he married.

I have submitted a query at
http://www.catholic-cemeteries.org/buri ... quest.aspx
to see if there is any record of Quinlivan burials at Calvary or the other Catholic cemeteries of St. Paul.

\pw

[Jimbo]

Paddy, had a second look at the St Paul city directories. Previously must have searched specifically for "Edward" and didn't pick up "Edw". From the 1913 directory (see below), Edw Quinlivan died 20 May 1913 at the age of 75. Although the age is off by abowt 7 years, this must be the Edward Quinlivan you are looking for.

Searched the Minnesota death register for any Edward who died in 1913 and was born between 1830 and 1840, and found Edward transcribed incorrectly as Qumlivan and Grunlivan:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FD91-2J8
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FD4N-538

Also, after some more research the younger Edward is unlikely to be the son of the senior Edward. In the 1889 St Paul directory, Edward Quinlivan is living with a John J. Quinlivan - most likely his brother. From the 1910 census, John J. is living in Folsom in Traverse County in the far west of Minnesota with his wife and six children. He was born about 1870 in Ireland.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M2PS-X8R

Here is the same John Quinlivan (born 1870) in the 1885 state census living in Folsom with his parents Daniel and Mary A. Quinlivan. One daughter was 5 years old born in Ireland, and the youngest daughter was 4 years old and born in Dakota Territory. So this Quinlivan family immigrated about 1880 - the same year stated by the younger Edward Quinlivan of St Paul in his 1890 passport application. Looks like the younger Edward of St. Paul is the son of Daniel and Mary A Quinlivan.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQF8-VRV

[pwaldron]

Thanks, Jimbo.

I got this from the Office Manager, Calvary and St. Mary's Cemeteries:

Edward Quinlivan was buried on February 6, 1941, at age 78, in Section 78 Block 15 Lot 12 Grave 2. Buried next to him is Matilda E Quinlivan, who was buried on October 6, 1954, at age 80.

Eliza Quinlivan was buried on July 26, 1891, at age 40. She is buried in Section 27, which is a potter's field.

I am not sure these are the people you are interested in, but I do not have any one else with the name Quinlivan buried here.

Eliza's death is registered as Quinlan:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XPXT-Y5S

I wonder in how many more ways the surname may have been garbled. I'm about to write back and ask the cemetery to check for Quinlans.