Looking for McNamara information

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reets
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Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:47 pm

Looking for any information on family of Mary McNamara(dressmaker) married Denis Nolan 1877 in Ennis. Father John McNamara listed as a mason was dead by 1877. Denis Nolan died Ennis, Clare 1884. children: Elizabeth b. 1878; Mary b. 1884; Patrick b. 1885. Daughter Elizabeth Nolan married James Farrell 16 Jan 1899. She died 1901 Ennis, Clare.

Have not been able to find family in any census.
reets

murf
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Location: Qld Australia

Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by murf » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:49 am

Hi reets
This might help
Mary Nolan, widow aged 79, of 6 Market St Ennis, died 2 Oct 1944. Informant Mary McNamara of the same address.

Also check out voters numbered 1212 - 1215 on this 1934-35 voters list.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01re0/

murf

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am

These two records just add to the mystery, I’m afraid:

Elizabeth Nolan and James Farrell, who married in 1899, are parents of Mary Francis Farrell, born 9 May 1900 at Causeway, Ennis: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 763173.pdf
James Farrell’s occupation is Surveyor; his address is Cloghjordan (Co. Tipperary). Elizabeth registered the birth in July, giving her address as Market Street.
I can find no further records for Mary Frances Farrell, or for her father, James Farrell.

1901 census: Patrick Nolan, aged 15, Apprentice, staying at the house of Michael Leahy in Chapel Lane: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1069453/
I think this might be Patrick who was born in 1885, after his father, Denis, had died. But I failed to find Patrick in the 1911 census, when he would have been aged 25.

Sheila

reets
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:30 pm

Thank you both for your help. The Mary Nolan that died in 1944 is most likely the mother of Mary Agatha Nolan that married Patrick Joseph McNamara Ennis 1917. I wondered if this might be the same family. The marriage does list her father as Denis, but it does not mark him as dead and it list his occupation as an mechanic rather than a carpenter. It also has her living Park Ascot, Berkshire, England at time of marriage.

I also hit a brick wall trying to find James Farrell and daughter Mary after Elizabeth's death.
Now I believe the Patrick Joseph McNamara is the son of Patrick McNamara & Hanora Griffin of Market Street. Might anyone know what happened to him?
reets

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:58 am

The information in a marriage certificate/record was usually provided to the Registrar by the priest who officiated at the marriage ceremony. Some priests wrote “dead,” or “alive” under the father’s name. But there was no rule requiring this extra information and some priests did not give it. It’s possible that Mary Agatha was the daughter of Denis, the carpenter, and that she was unsure of his occupation; if Mary Agatha was the daughter of Denis, the carpenter, she was only 1 year old when he died on 15 December 1884. We need to keep an open mind as to whether Denis the carpenter and Denis the mechanic were the same man, but also take into consideration that Nolan was not a very common name in Clare, so there can’t have been many Denis Nolans about the place.
A Daniel Nolan was best man at the marriage of Elizabeth Nolan and James Farrell in 1899; I feel sure he was a relative of Elizabeth’s, but, again, I could find no further records for him. And I could find no record of the death of Edward Nolan, who was still alive in 1877 according to the record of the marriage of Mary McNamara and Denis Nolan.

Yes, Mary Nolan, who died in 1944, may be the mother of Mary Agatha, and it may be that they were both living in England up to the time of Mary Agatha’s marriage to Patrick Joseph McNamara in 1917. That would explain their not appearing in the censuses. If Mary, who died in 1944, was the widow of Denis Nolan, Carpenter, the age given at death (79) should be 89: age 79 would mean that Mary was born in 1865 and aged only 12 when she married, but the record of her marriage gives her age as 22. People often made a guess at the age of the dead person, so her age at death is not enough to decide that Mary was definitely not the widow of the carpenter, but it is enough to raise a doubt about it.

Patrick Joseph McNamara and Mary Agatha Nolan, who married in 1917, were living in Market Street when their first child, Mary Josephine, was born on 17 June 1918; Patrick Joseph’s occupation: Soldier. The birth of their second child, Eileen Veronica, on 26 July 1920, at the Militia Barracks, shows that Patrick Joseph’s occupation had changed to Police Constable. I wonder if there are records for him as a member of the R.I.C.? I gather from a radio programme I listened to recently* that some ex-members of the Royal Irish Constabulary were recruited to the police force created by the new Free State.

I agree that Patrick Joseph McNamara may well be the son of Patrick McNamara and Nora, who are in the 1901 census living in Market Street. The 1901 census shows that Patrick and Nora had a son, Patrick J., who was aged 18 in 1901; occupation: watchmaker: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... _/1069809/.
If Mary Agatha was the daughter of Denis Nolan, Carpenter, she would have been aged 17 in 1901 - about the same age as Patrick J. The 1911 census shows that Patrick (senior) was a Stationer, along with being an R.I.C. pensioner; that would explain his being described as a merchant in the 1917 marriage record. I notice that one of the witnesses is Mary E. McNamara – she may be the Mary Eillen McNamara who is living at home in Market Street in 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001754070/. The Mary McNamara, who reported the death of Mary Nolan in 1944, therefore, could be either Mary Ellen, or Mary Agatha. I think if it was Mary Agatha she would have been described as “daughter” in the death record: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 230326.pdf. So we can’t be sure that Patrick remained in Ennis after the disbandment of the R.I.C. If he and Mary Agatha remained in Ennis, their deaths will be in the death records which now go to 1971. Searching for the deaths of Patrick and Mary McNamara between 1920 and 1971 is another day’s work!

* ‘The History Show’ broadcast Sun. 27 Feb 2022 – see “The Garda Mutiny” at no. 13 on this list: https://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podca ... ryshow.xml

Sheila

reets
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:57 pm

Wow, I am grateful for your help.
Denis Nolan was born in Portumna, Galway, son of Ned Nolan & Elizabeth Mary Hanly. I believe his sister Ann Nolan was my great grandmother. Both parents and brother, Edward, died before the census and I have not been able to find where his other two sisters may have gone. His sister Mary Nolan had a son Andrew Nolan baptized 1873 father listed as Andrew Briggs. The widow Elizabeth Nolan was put out of her house 1879 after the death of her husband. I was hoping following the McNamara line might provide me with some answers. McNamaras do show up as distant cousins in my DNA results.

I understand how unreliable records can be. It took me awhile to establish the family of Edward Nolan & Elizabeth Hanly of Ballycrissane because each record listed the parents names differently: sometimes Edward Nolan, sometimes Ned Nolan. His wife would be Elizabeth Hanly or Handley, sometimes Mary/Maria and in the case Denis Nolan, his mother was incorrectly listed as Catherine in the baptism record.
reets

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:20 am

Hi reets,

Thank you very much for that extra information. It changes things a bit – to my mind at least.
I imagined that Denis Nolan was from Ennis, but of course he was just living there at the time of his marriage in 1877 (and continued to live there until he died 7 years later). So the frequency of the Nolan name in Ennis is no longer a consideration. I now suspect that Denis Nolan, the carpenter, and Denis Nolan, the mechanic, are two separate people. And I suspect that Mary Nolan born in Ennis in 1873 is not Mary Agatha Nolan, who had an address in England at the time of her marriage to Patrick Joseph McNamara in 1917. I now think that Mary Agatha invited her mother to live with her in Ennis and that her mother was indeed aged 79 when she died there in 1944 (not 89).

I think there are two separate stories: (1) the Nolans, Brewery Lane; (2) the McNamaras, Market Street. I found the record of the death of Patrick Joseph McNamara, 1937; it gives his occupation as Newsagent, so we can assume that he continued to live in Market Street after his marriage in 1917. It states that he was married, which shows that Mary Agatha was still alive in 1937: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 282077.pdf
The deaths (online) only go to 1971, but I decided that if Mary Agatha, perchance, was Mary Nolan born 1873, I would find her death sometime between 1937 and 1971. I failed to find her death, which makes me think she was not Mary Nolan born 1873. I found the death of a Mary McNamara, Market Street, in 1943: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 242928.pdf, and thought at first she might be a the sister of Patrick Joseph, but the death was reported by her sister Margaret and I think now she belongs to the family of Michael McNamara, who was a baker in Market Street. So the question of whether it was Patrick Joseph's sister who reported the death of Mary Nolan in 1944 still remains.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:03 am

Hi reets,

You may have noticed that I made a mistake there when I gave a birth year as 1873, when it should be 1884.
I turned my attention away from Mary Agatha Nolan and towards Mary Nolan, whom we know was born in Ennis, Dec. 1883 (registered Jan. 1884).
If Mary Nolan survived infancy and was aged 17 in 1901, she must have been living in another county or country – I failed to find her in the 1901 census. It's possible that she did not give Co. Clare as her birthplace. Then I looked at the 1911 census and found a Mary Nolan, aged 24, from Co. Clare, a servant to Isabelle Desonza [De Souza], in Bray town (Co. Wicklow): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ce/892160/. There are only three other options for a Mary Nolan born in Co. Clare 1884-1887: Mary Anne Nolan, b. 1885, to Thomas Nolan, Victualler, and Mary Liddane, Kilkee; Mary Ellen Nolan, b. 1887, to the same parents; Mary Nolan, b. 1886, to Patrick Nolan, Farmer, and Maria Considine, Benvoran. So there's a good possibility that this is your Mary. I thought she might have married soon afterwards, in Wicklow, and that I would see her father's name, but I had no such luck.

Sheila

reets
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:53 pm

Mary Nolan,living with Isabelle De Souza, is characterized as a lady's maid or companion. She is still single when Isabelle dies in 1913, and is listed as Molly Nolan, the beneficiary of Isabelle. I don't think this is my Mary Nolan. My Galway Nolans were a little rough around the edges. They seemed to have had a hard life so I don't think my Mary would have had the skills to be a lady's maid, nor the temperament to be a companion.

Maybe I should start further back and see if I can identify any of Mary McNamara Nolan's family. Her father John McNamara was deceased by 1877, when she married Denis Nolan. His occupation was listed as a Mason
reets

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:54 am

Hi reets

Yes, I'm sure you are right about Mary Nolan in Wicklow.

Do you think the father of Mary McNamara might be Tom rather than John ?:https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 085035.pdf. I notice that Bassett's Directory, 1875-6, lists a Thomas McNamara under Masons: https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/cocla ... trades.htm

I am a bit doubtful - having looked at the Drumcliff parish (Ennis) baptisms and noting that Thomas McNamara and Anne Daffy of Clonroad had at least six children baptised, including a Mary baptised in Jan 1845 - that Mary doesn't fit with Mary who was 22 when she married in 1877.

Also I note that the Drumcliff Marriages shows that one of the witnesses at the marriage of Thomas McNamara to Anne Daffy, in 1841, was a John McNamara. So maybe John was a brother of Thomas and involved in the family business.

Sheila

reets
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:50 pm

Mary's father's name was John. I located a marriage record for her brother Daniel McNamara & Susan Reddan which has John McNamara, Mason, dead by 1870. Daniel & his family move to New Zealand where he died 1885.
reets

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:42 am

Hi reets

That record of the marriage of Daniel McNamara and Susan Reddan in 1870 was a good find. I see that there were at least three children born to them before they emigrated – all born in The Causeway.
I am wondering if he is the Daniel who was born to John McNamara and Honor McCarty and baptised on 26 May 1841. “McCarty” was often spelled “Carty” and I see that that John and Honor had at least 6 other children baptised between 1841 and 1860.
The Drumcliff parish marriages shows that John and Honor were married on 29 June 1838, but, whereas the marriage register begins at 1837, the baptism register does not begin until 1841, so they probably had a child in 1839 whose baptism is not recorded. I see that a daughter, Mary, was baptised on 3 November 1846. She doesn’t fit with Mary who was aged 22 in 1877. It’s possible that Mary b. 1846 died in infancy and that another child was called Mary. I see no baptism record to support that theory, but not every baptism was recorded. Another child, Stephen, baptised 30 December 1850, must have died – a later child born 3 June 1853 was also called Stephen.
I think this Stephen b. 1853 must be the Stephen McNamara who married Margaret Howard in 1879: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 046431.pdf Stephen’s father is John McNamara, dead, Labourer. “Labourer” was used to cover a multitude and it may be that John had been a Mason, but, as time went on, was able to diversify. Stephen and Margaret had two children born to them in Ennis: John Thomas born 17 December 1879 (address: Turnpike), and Daniel born 1 April 1882 (address: Mill Street). I found no further records for this family, and I am wondering if they too emigrated. I am also interested in Daniel’s age when he died in 1885 in New Zealand; if it is about 45, the chances of him being the Daniel who was born to John McNamara and Honor McCarty in 1841 are much increased.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:02 am

Hi reets

Put that last posting in the bin. I see now that John Mac[Namara]and Honour Carthy had a son on 23 August 1855 who was called Daniel: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 6/mode/1up . The first Daniel (b. 1841) must have died. This second Daniel would have been only 15 in 1870, so he is not the Daniel who married Susan Reddan that year.
If only that second Daniel was a daughter called Mary, she would have fitted beautifully!

I'm still interested in the age at death of Daniel who went to New Zealand.

Sheila

reets
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by reets » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:25 pm

Daniel was 46 when died in 1885. There was a memorial on find a grave for him so I provided the information I found on his family. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/144 ... l-mcnamara. I came across a possible baptism for Daniel 20 May 1838, Kildysart; parents John McNamara & Ann King, but no record for Mary McNamara with these parents.
reets

Sduddy
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Re: Looking for McNamara information

Post by Sduddy » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:09 am

Hi reets

Thanks for that information from Daniel’s headstone. The three sons, John, Francis and Michael, whose names are included, were born in The Causeway, Ennis: John in 1871, Francis in 1872 and Michael in 1873. All three records describe Daniel as Builder.
I think New Zealand death records are good and often give the names of both parents, but, since Mary Nolan’s people do not belong to your own (Nolan) family, you may not intend sending for the record.
So back to Co. Clare, and, since this Daniel was not the son of John McNamara and Honor Mc/Carthy, you may be right in thinking he was born in some other parish (not Drumcliff). But I think Daniel was living in Ennis before his marriage (1870): a Dan Mack is one of the sponsors at the baptism, on 6 April 1868, of Mary Anne Reddan, daughter of John Reddan* and Margaret Joyce, Causeway. I think Susan Reddan was also living in Ennis at that time – a Susan Reddan was sponsor at the baptism of Patrick Reddan, on 20 March 1866, son of Patrick Reddan and Margaret Mac, Corovorin.
* In 1901, John Redden, his wife, Margaret, and daughter, Honor, are living in Coor (Ennis Rural); John’s occupation: Mason: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... r/1069113/. I suspect that John Redden was working with the Clonroad McNamaras at the time of the birth of his daughter, Mary Anne. Susan Reddan might be his sister.

There is a connection between the Clonroad McNamaras and The Causeway: the record of the death, in 1888, of Thomas McNamara, Mason, shows that he died in The Causeway; his son, John, is the informant. This John is living in Clonroadmore in 1901; occupation: Stone Mason: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1069942/. In 1911 he is described as Mason (builder), aged 56. I strongly suspect that John is a first cousin of Daniel in New Zealand. And, if Daniel is indeed a brother of Mary Nolan née McNamara, then Mary is also John’s first cousin.

When Denis Nolan died in 1885, Mary was left with three small children to support, and I wonder if she married again. But I can find no record of such a marriage in Ennis.

Sheila

P.S. Worth remembering is that the birth of Mary Francis Farrell, granddaughter of Mary Nolan née McNamara, took place at The Causeway (May 1900): https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 763173.pdf
Mary Francis died in August of 1900 in Cloghjordan, Co. Tipperary; the informant was her father, J. Farrell: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 624565.pdf

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