Carrigaholt registers

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fonziepage
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Carrigaholt registers

Post by fonziepage » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:55 am

Would anyone know if the Carrigaholt parish baptism link is still available, I have just spent many hours trawling the the marriage register and am in awe at the dedication and tenacity of those of you who take on the task of transcribing these records for us, I think priests and doctors should be made to print not write, it would certainly help chemists and family historians. Many thanks. Fonzie.

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:19 am

Hi Fonzie

I’ve only ever seen the original (made available to view online by the National Library of Ireland at https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0769). At one time it seemed that a transcription was going to be donated by Murray Michael Ginnane, but it never appeared – I think there was some difficulty with the format – see first page of topic “Parish Records – Transcribers Register”: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=6768

It surprises me that the priests bothered to keep records at all. The Synod of bishops in Thurles (1850) instructed priests to keep records, but I doubt that these records were ever inspected. When the bishop came to the parish I’m sure he wanted to see a nice dinner - not a pile of registers.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:31 am

Hi Fonzie

I’ve transcribed the first ten years (1853-63) of the Carrigaholt baptism register, which goes from 1853 to 1878, in order to help you find the records you are looking for. I will go on to transcribe the rest of the register, but these first 10 years are the most important as far as records are concerned – from 1864 onwards records of births can be found in the civil records: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/.
Bear in mind that my transcription will be full of mistakes – I move along quickly and don’t stop to think. It is a good idea to look at the mothers' surnames – this often shows up something that is not clear in the fathers' surnames, e.g. that McCarthy and Carty are used for the same person. And it is most important to check the original: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up

Sheila
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-63 by date.xlsx
(202.7 KiB) Downloaded 82 times
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-63 by mothers surname .xlsx
(209.79 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-63 by fathers surname .xlsx
(213.08 KiB) Downloaded 85 times

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:40 pm

I've now completed my transcription of Carrigaholt parish baptisms, 1853 - 1878 - see attached below. When I sorted the data, I looked (quickly) through it and found that I had made several errors in the above transcription of the first ten years. A close study would show up several more, I'm sure. So I'm advising researchers not to refer to it.
There will be many mistakes in this transcription too, but some of these will become obvious if both mother's name and father's name are checked. There are some names that I cannot tell apart, e.g Mary and Margt., and Mary and Norry. As for placenames (Residence), I could not tell Moneen from Moveen.

Sheila
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-78.xlsx
(405.48 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-78 by Father'sSurname.xlsx
(416.03 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
CarrigaholtBaptisms1853-78 by mother's surname.xlsx
(418.99 KiB) Downloaded 78 times

smcarberry
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by smcarberry » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:10 am

Kudos to you again, Sheila, for taking on this largely thankless task and completing it to the best of your ability (which is now far beyond the ordinary mortal's since you have done so many of these registers). I also applaud your frank and useful admission that some errors slip in anyway. Having likewise tackled handwriting as it appears on pages of that era, I understand that Regan can seem to be Ryan, which was one of my slip-ups, and I am sure that I also did the Margt-Mary one.

Could we have imagined back in 2010 that we in 2021 would have so many resources available ?

Sharon C.

P.S. I hope the Clare County Library's Local Studies Centre webpage listing all the transcriptions is updated quickly to reflect that this 1853-1878 register has been done; today it is reading 1853-1880 not done.

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:26 pm

Hi Sharon
Thank you. No, indeed, we could never have imagined that so many resources would become available. I hope the cut off point of 1880 (for the Catholic parish records) will be extended soon.

I almost forgot to do the other Carrigaholt* register Feb 1878 - Mar 1881. There are only 11 pages of baptisms (p 5 - p16) and the time span is so short that most couples had only one child baptised in that period.
Page 4 has this helpful information:
"Baptismal Registry kept in the parish of Kilballowen - which was disunited from Moyarta parish (or the Eastern side extending from Rahona to the Ferry) by the Most Rev James Ryan, Bishop, on Saturday the 16th February 1878. I came to take possession of the Kilballyowen (or Western side) on Wednesday, 20th February, 1878. [signed] John Vaughan, P.P., Kilballyowen."

Cross (Kilballyowen) baptisms1878-1881.xlsx
(72.35 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
Sheila

* P.S. As a result of Paddy Waldron's posting below, explaining that this 1878-1881 baptism register is not for the Catholic parish of Carrigaholt, but, rather, for the Catholic parish of Cross (Kilballyowen), I have edited this posting to change the titles of the attachments from Carrigaholt to Cross (Kilballyowen).
Last edited by Sduddy on Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

fonziepage
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by fonziepage » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:34 am

Hello Sheila, I have not been back to the Library site for some time and received a wonderful Xmas present to see that you have transcribed the Carrigaholt Baptism Registers, I have no idea how you can do all this without going mad, just trying to read the registers makes my head spin. It is so much easier to find the ancestors in the format you have used and I have just found both my GG grandmothers and most of their siblings thanks to all your hard work and would like you to know I am very grateful to you for all you do, it is our National day here today and I am sure you have given a gift to all of us researchers downunder, May God bless you with happiness and good health. Fonzie

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:38 am

Hi Fonzie,
Thank you. I’m very pleased you found those ancestors. Happy Australia Day and good luck with the rest of your research.
Sheila

pwaldron
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by pwaldron » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:32 pm

Sheila

You have really gone beyond the call of duty in repeating Murray Ginnane's efforts and giving us another version of the Carrigaholt registers. Many thanks.

One small point - the microfilm containing baptisms from 19 Feb 1878 to 29 Mar 1881 and marriages from 5 Mar 1878 to 30 Apr 1881 at
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls0 ... 1/mode/1up
is mis-labelled "Carrigaholt" by the National Library and is actually for the western parish with churches at Cross and Kilbaha, which is more or less coterminous with the civil parish of Kilballyowen - the townlands of Bellia, Cloonconeen, Killeenagh, Killinny and Knocknagarhoon, along with parts of Trusklieve and Tullig, are in Moyarta civil parish but in Cross Catholic parish (Paul Murphy, Cuchulain’s Leap (Loop Head): A History Of The Parishes Of Carrigaholt & Cross (1st ed., Carrigaholt & Cross Heritage Group, 1992), p. 243.) For more details, see my article at
http://pwaldron.info/KilrushPLU.htm

None of the registers for the smaller Carrigaholt parish (the eastern end of the original parish) after the separation of the parishes in 1878 have been microfilmed.

So you should probably rename the post-1878 spreadsheets to something other than Carrigaholt - Kilballyowen or Cross or whatever you prefer.

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:33 am

Hi Paddy

Thanks for that help – I had no idea that I had mis-labelled Kilballyowen/Cross as Carrigaholt and will certainly change the title of my transcription of the 1878-1881 baptisms accordingly.
Thanks for your article on the boundaries; I remember reading it some time ago, but of course I’d forgotten to refer to it.

Can you help me a bit more, please: you say that I have repeated Murray Ginnane’s work on Carrigaholt. I knew of Murray Ginnane’s transcription of the Marriages, available under Donated Material. And I knew that Murray Ginnane had done much work on the baptisms (this work is referred to a few time in the postings to this forum), but I never saw the finished product. I did not want to step on toes by going at the job myself, but finally gave up waiting for the work to appear and went ahead (without consulting anyone, I should say). My feeling, when I read your reply, where you say “by giving us another version,” is that Murray Ginnane’s work on the baptisms was already available. I’m a bit puzzled.

It seems pity that the real Carrigaholt register from 1878 is not available on microfilm, but if a transcription of the actual register is included in that work by Murray Ginnane mentioned by you, that’s very good.

And that leads me to a more general question, which arises from a posting made by Sharon Carberry in 2007. Replying to Paddy Casey on the topic “Clare baptism records on microfilm: are they complete?” (http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28), she quotes Antoinette O’Brien of the Clare Heritage Centre as saying, “it is important to remember that out of a total of 47 Parishes in Co. Clare only 4 have registers pre-dating 1820.” The only pre-1820 registers I’ve transcribed are Rath-Kilnaboy and Tulla; another is Cratloe, transcribed by Jeff Fitzsimmons; but where does the fourth one belong to? Is it Kilmanaheen?

Sheila

pwaldron
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by pwaldron » Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:26 am

Hi Sheila

It was not you but the National Library who mislabelled the 1878-80 Kilballyowen microfilm!

I have a link from
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/visiting/about-moyarta
to Murray's 2013 version of the Carrigaholt baptisms at
http://www.facebook.com/groups/countycl ... 053791424/
which appears to be available only via Facebook.

Murray also worked from the microfilms (before they were even available online), so doesn't have anything that you don't have. He is still very active on Facebook but may have been neglecting this forum.

John Grenham is the best authority on surviving church registers:
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/cou ... 20Catholic
Quin and Parteen/Meelick (which straddles the boundary with county Limerick) both appear to have some surviving pre-1820 records, which brings the total of such parishes in Clare to about four and a half.

Paddy

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:13 am

Hi Paddy

Thanks very much for that reply. I’m not a member of facebook, which explains why I did not see Murray Ginnane’s transcription. I’m only a member of this forum; there’s so much of interest in it, it keeps me busy enough, and I love it.

Thanks for the link to the piece on Moyarta – it is excellent.

And thanks also for the link to John Grenham’s chart of the parishes. I looked at it and I think that the Quin register, starting at 1816, must be the fourth pre-1820 register. I realize now that I transcribed that one back in 2017. I remember noticing that the priest often gave the home parish of the groom - what a thoughtful priest that was :). I agree that Parteen-Meelick should count as another pre-1820 register.

I’d wondered about Kilmanaheen ever since I noticed the posting by Bob Cusack, where he mentions finding a record dated 31 Aug 1822, http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=5520, and I see now that there is a Kilmanaheen register dating from 1823, but it is in the Clare Heritage Centre and people must pay for the information in it. I would love to be transcribing that register, but must resign myself that I never will – c’est la vie!

Sheila

smcarberry
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by smcarberry » Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:25 am

I am going to horn in on this thread, not because I have anything to say on the involved registers but just to reflect on the continuing value of this Forum and its members' insights. On other message boards (such as Reddit) nearly every week someone complains how frustrating Irish genealogy is "because all the records were burned." Many of those people are accustomed to the push-button ease of collecting data on Ancestry.com, so declaring a brickwall occurs after maybe a month of effort, total.

It is so refreshing and supportive of my continuing effort to learn what happened to my family after its Dec 1849 eviction, to see how other family historians here continue the effort to know the resources available and to disseminate that knowledge. A part of that is rising above the differences that would usually divide us, in order to provide information when it is needed despite someone''s not being on FB or in a specific interest group. As this thread shows, even in this great Internet age of digital resources, there are old jurisdictional and territorial niches that hold onto valuable data, resisting free access for the sake of monetization or similar self-serving purpose.

All I can say is thank you for your tolerance and deep devotion to furthering knowledge about Clare's early history/people.

Also, since I am still intent on writing an article on my family's PP Rev. Patrick Quaid, who started the parish book in 1835 which eventually included the county's only RC death register, please know that I now have enough data on his activities to prepare a basic article. I am hesitate to start writing because I feel I don't have a sense of how his level of activism compares to other parish priests of his era and setting. I read every comment on this Forum containing insights into clerical attitudes of the time, so kindly keep noting what you observe, and, if you know of books or articles on the topic, let us know. TIA !

Sharon Carberry

Sduddy
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Re: Carrigaholt registers

Post by Sduddy » Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:51 pm

Hi Sharon

I remember you mentioning that you were embarking on an article on Fr. Quaid and it’s good to hear that you now feel you have enough data for one. I think it is bound to be interesting, especially as he was so active in the 1850s, a decade we hear very little about. Sharon, I don’t want to go too far from Carriagholt and the subject of parish registers, so you will find the rest of my reply under the topic of “Fr. Patrick Quaid.”: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... 263#p14263

Sheila

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