Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

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PhilDon
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:05 pm

Hello Kerry,

Thanks again for your help here …. and please be assured that I certainly thoroughly read the contributions you guys are kind enough to provide.
I have been very fortunate to have visited the St John’s Catholic Church cemetery you speak off and others around the Bakers Flat, Kapunda, Spalding, Burra, Peterborough, Wilmington and Gumbowie areas of South Australia ….. around the year 2011.. I think.
During our visit to St Johns I actually helped another gentleman to turn over the headstone of your relative … Bridget Agnes (Kierce) Donnellan. It had fallen off the plinth face forward onto the grave and unfortunately smash into many pieces. I have a photo or two somewhere; but there are much better ones now doing the rounds on the internet and Ancestry.
The headstone indicates that Bridget is buried with her husband John, and three sons …. James, Thomas and Michael Donnellan. There is also a Francis Kierce interred with them.

The Patrick on the “Ernestine” is the Patrick Donnellan who married Maria O’Loughlin and passed away in Spalding, South Australia in January 1911.

The grave of Thomas O’Loughlin, you refer to, is actually Maria’s father. Thomas and his wife Mary (Davorin) immigrated from Co. Clare to South Australia …. Arriving on the “Elgin” in September 1849.
They had ten children …. so no doubt there would have been a few descendants.

I’m quite certain that because of your ties with the Kierce family you are pretty much across this area of the family ….. but don’t hesitate to ask if you have any queries …. I may be able to help.

Once again, thanks for your help and interest

Cheers Phil D.

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:05 pm

Hi Phil

About the transcriptions: It was Murf who initiated and coordinated the transcription project and maybe he will want to respond to your query regarding usage, but, for myself, I must say that I posted my transcriptions in the full knowledge (and expectation) that people would take them and slice them and dice them to suit their own needs. I just hope people realise that my transcriptions are full of mistakes. For instance, I have the date of James’ baptism as 12 Feb 1864 when it should be 12 Mar 1864.
Thanks for sending all that information on the children of Andrew and Mary. I’ve noted that the Matthew who applied for Naturalization in 1906 was not your Matthew. And that the Elizabeth who is in the 1880 census is not your Elizabeth.
A couple of corrections: “Buthane” is Rushane, a townland in Kilnamona parish, and Knockatemple is also in Kilnamona parish. I feel sure that Elizabeth was born in Kilnamona parish – and not in Inagh parish. The civil parish of Inagh and the civil parish of Kilnamona both belonged to one Catholic parish (Inagh and Kilnamona) – yes, it’s all very confusing. Here is Kilnamona: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... nemona.htm

Sheila

murf
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Location: Qld Australia

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by murf » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:20 am

I agree with Sheila's comment re the transcriptions.
We continually make the point that the transcriptions should not be regarded as a primary information source. They are not, and on all occasions researchers are advised to refer back to the parish registers on microfilm.
But the transcriptions are a great finding tool, and having the records in spreadsheet format that can be manipulated in various ways to reveal certain aspects (such as mispellings or indeed mistranscriptions) can equip the user with a powerful research tool.
Yes, Phil there was a huge amount of effort went into the County Clare Transcription project involving many volunteers, and especially due to the great work of Sheila in the last couple of years the whole of County Clare is now virtually complete. But I'm sure Sheila would agree that much satisfaction derives from the knowledge that the results of all the hard work are now freely available to maybe thousands of Clare researchers.
murf

Sduddy
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Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:07 am

Murf, thanks for that fuller explanation, which is really good and clear. But in the early hours I woke up and suddenly realised that it should be stated that there were some transcriptions donated to clare library prior to the beginning of that particular project (2016) – transcriptions by John Mayer, Jim McNamara, Marie Crowley, Sharon Carberry, Paddy Casey and Diane Culhane, Clare Roots Society, Murf himself, plus others that are not coming to my mind at the moment. I got up really early to say that.

Sheila

smcarberry
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Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by smcarberry » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:05 am

Well, Sheila, here I am up early too and feel compelled to note that, while there were some early ones of us who felt like kids at Christmas when the NLI provided online images of the parish book films, the doing of one or a few transcriptions is a mere candle in the wind compared to the huge spotlight you have provided to the genealogy community with your superhuman job of transcribing dozens. As any of us can say who have faced page upon page of the filmed images, we are grateful for the amount of preserved knowledge but highly aware that our transcriptions are merely a best effort, due to any number of reasons like faded ink, poor page images, scrambled or missing sections in the original book, cramped handwriting, etc. To see our best efforts turn into something good for a current descendant who can now realize who all his or her family was back in those harrowing times -- that's truly the reward, not merely getting credit and seeing copyright being honored. And you, Sheila, are a very worthy recipient of such payback.

deirdre carroll
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:30 am

Hello,

I have sent a few messages in recent days but because of a computer fault these have not gone through. This is a test to see if this one gets through and if so, will later today try and resume,

Deirdre C.

Sduddy
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:11 am

Hi Sharon - Thank you very much. Yes, I’m really pleased to have done that work, but would never have ventured upon it unless I was led by others.

Hi Phil
Catholic parishes were generally much larger than civil parishes, and often embraced part of an adjoining civil parish. The Catholic parish of Kilmaley took in some of the civil parish of Drumcliff. So when I was looking, this morning, at the numbers of Donnellans in the parish of Kilmaley, I began to realise that some of those Donnellan families actually belong to Drumcliff civil parish - for instance all those whose address is Cragnagour, Ivy Hill, or Kilquane. Well, I was gripped with a fear that I might have misrepresented Andrew Donnellan as coming from Kilmaley, but the fear was dispelled when I saw that his address is given as Corrin. I believe this is the townland of Carncreagh, which is “Corrancreagh” in the Tithe Applotment Books. Carncreagh is at the western end of the parish (see No. 18): http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... nlands.htm . and you will see that it’s quite a distance from Garrynagry, but it is an upland area and, at the time of Griffith’s Valuation (1855), some of the farms there were very large, so maybe Andrew was working as a herd there. I’ve attached a slice of the Kilmaley baptisms to show that the priest often wrote “Corrin” rather than Corrancreagh.

Sheila
Carncreagh Kilmaley.xlsx
(56.29 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

deirdre carroll
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm

Hello Phil,

I went back to some old notes I had kept of the Valuation Records for parts of Crusheen (they tracked property and land occupation post Griffith's valuation up to c. 1970s). There were in fact two Donnellan families close to my Drumumna O'Connor family BUT they were first cousins. One (the people I came across) lived across the road from the O'Connors in Drumumna and the other lived in Gortaficka. A flash of memory returned when I recalled getting to know for a brief time an old school friend of my father, May Donnellan/Cullinan, on a brief visit to Crusheen in the late 1980s. She was very informative and indeed a very inspiring person. She was from the Gortaficka Donnellan family.

The records show a Patrick Donnellan coming into Drumumna c. 1894 to plot number 2, previously occupied by Patrick Hehir. Soon after a Thomas Donnellan becomes the occupier, presumably the son. Mary Mangan, my Great Aunt is at 2(b). She left soon afterwards for Holyoke, USA. Her sister Bridget was married to James O'Connor, living across the road in plot 12. Thomas is there till at least 1934, his son Michael (my father's friend) replacing him. There was another son in that family called James, who sadly drowned. Nearby in Gortaficka plot 38 to 42 is occupied by another Patrick Donnellan. May Donnellan told us the two Patricks were first cousins.

It seems likely that these two Donnellans are the former Donnellans from Gurtnamearacaun, which is also in Crusheen. You will recall also that one of your ancestor's children was baptized in Crusheen so it is likely/possible that perhaps the brother? of your Andrew moved to Crusheen from Kilmaley for work. There are no Donnellans there during the Tithes.


Regards,

Deirdre C.

smcarberry
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Location: USA

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by smcarberry » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:08 pm

Very good reading for us Donnellan descendants, on the families in and around Crusheen. I have more info on the Cragnagour ones, as some went to Western New York and thrived there, with much mention in newspapers. However, very early in my Donnellan research, I went to the Registry of Deeds (Dubln Four Courts) and took notes that include what I have been regarding as the early history of the later Ennis family which uses the names Michael and Patrick a lot (as did all the D. families of Clare, actually). I have a bit more on men named Michael, resident in Ennis during the 1800s.

Just so we all have the same early data, I attach my file note on an 1803 deed involving Kilquane, and here is another old posting by a descendant on a board no longer functioning:
"Michael Donnellan born c1810 near Ennis, Co. Clare married Mary McMahon c1835. The couple had seven children, five sons and two daughters. In 1865 three sons, John, Patrick and Thomas migrated to South Australia, the rest of the family followed in 1866."

And then a brief mention of a Kilquane family:
8/03/1837: Limerick newspaper, Library donated database
Mrs. Donellan, wife of Mr. Patrick Donnellen, of Kilquane, county Clare.

[attachment=0]D. of Kllquane, 1803 deed.JPG[/attachment
Attachments
D. of Kllquane, 1803 deed.JPG
D. of Kllquane, 1803 deed.JPG (45.68 KiB) Viewed 1032 times

PhilDon
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:00 pm

Hello again everyone,

Again I say thank you so much for all this assistance.
Must say one thing I have learned here, as a very "amateur" genealogist, is that when I make notes I
need to be a whole lot more informative for myself.
The days of a little nugget of info', written on a scrap of paper, opening up a world of memory is ...I'm afraid to say, for me ... long gone !!
So I have spent the last two days spreadsheeting and cataloguing and getting better organised.
Still a long way to go ... but getting there.

Well, here I go, back to the task at hand .... trying to join the dots
I believe that our Andrew Donnellan who married Mary Conole had at least 3 male siblings.
I believe the Four brothers may have been named … ( surprise …surprise ..!!!) …
Andrew, Thomas, Patrick and Michael.
There may have also been at least two girls. No surprises there either … Bridget and Mary.
But sadly, I do not have sufficient information to confirm their existence ……let alone list them chronologically.
I have also been unable to establish/confirm the names of their parents …..
But I do have written in my notes ….. Andrew of Patrick Donnellan and Bridget …1807 ??.
But not sure where I got that from…
As for the sons …

Andrew Donnellan (1807 ?)… married Mary Conole …..
No marriage documents, but baptism info’ for some of their children.

Patrick Donnellan (1809 ?) … married Judy Conole …..
No marriage documents, but baptism info’ for some of their children.

Michael Donnellan (1810 ?) … married Mary McNamara … about 1834
No marriage documents, but baptism info’ for some of their children.
I believe Michael and Mary immigrated to Australia arriving in Port Adelaide,
South Australia on the “Ernestine” in July 1866

Thomas Donnellan (1812 ?) … married Bridget Barnes ?? ….Bonnis ?? (Indecipherable)
No marriage documents, but baptism info’ for some of their children.
I believe Thomas and Bridget had planned/organised for the family to immigrate to
Australia. Unfortunately, Thomas passed away prior to departure.
But Bridget still immigrated with Thomas Jnr, Catherine and Abigail arriving in Port
Adelaide, South Australia on the “Neptune” in October 1853.

Is there any way from this info' that I can establish the parents names?
Is there a particular area that you can recommend I search in.
I have certainly been utilising your attachments ...plus digging as far as possible into 'Ancestry' and
'Find my past' ... but as I've said before I just keep running aground.
Well, time to sign off again.

Once again, Thanks to you all
Cheers Phil D.

kbarlow
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by kbarlow » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:49 am

Hi again Phil, one of the ways I have been able to work out family connections is by locating the marriage date where possible, then putting the children's baptisms in descending order.

Irish Naming Conventions
For sons
The 1st son was named after the father's father.
The 2nd son was named after the mother's father.
The 3rd son was named after the father.
The 4th son was named after the father's eldest brother.
The 5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother.
For daughters
The 1st daughter was named after the mother's mother.
The 2nd daughter was named after the father's mother.
The 3rd daughter was named after the mother.
The 4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister.
The 5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister.
SOURCE: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/ ... yHtEl.dpuf
In my experience this is followed until the early 1900s, although longer in some families. If a name had already been used, the child named according to the next on the list.

Did you manage to find the Michael D's(age 43) death cert - the one on the Ernestine's list?

deirdre carroll
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:37 pm

Hello Phil,

Some further Donnellan references.

1.The Petty Sessions cases - available in findmypast.ie - can often provide useful information. In 1856, John Donlan, Drumumna, Herdsman, was a complainant against Pat Hehir, Drumumna,cattle jobber, regarding the killing of a lamb, the property of Nicholas Butler Esq. to whom the complainant was caretaker. Tom Donlan was a witness.

2.Michael Donnellan married Catherine O'Connor in Ruan on 8 February 1857. Witnesses were Thomas and Michael O'Connors. In the case of my own O'Connor forbears, who originated in Clifden, Rath parish (Corofin area) and ended up at some unknown point in Crusheen (my GrGR is there in Griffiths, named Patrick) there is a possibility that they passed through /lived for some time in Ruan. Catherine could in theory be one of these O'Connors. This Michael Donnellan has to be the same person who had a child in Gurtnamearacaun in 1861, along with wife Catherine.

3.Maybe it was noted already, but there was an Andrew Donnellan baptized on 22 December 1865 in Kilmaley to Thomas Donnellan and Margaret Burke. Witnesses were Thomas Donnellan and Kate Killeen. Location Ivy Hill.

4. Pat Donlan of Gortaficka, farmer, is the complainant against Michael Moroney of Drumumna about cattle crossing land in 1896. Pat Hehir is a witness.

5.Patrick? baptized May 1866 to Patrick Donnellan and Mary Fahy Shranagalloon. They had a Patrick earlier on 10 February 1864, with address given as Gortaficka. On the same page, on 21 March 1864 James was baptized to Andrew Donnellan and Mary Clune. Witnesses were Edmond and Anne Fitzgibbon, Shranagalloon. My O'Connor family knew the Fitzgibbons well, with two of the O'Connors marrying Fitzgibbons in Holyoke. The descendants are still there. My Mangan Great Uncle, becoming Michael Manning in the US ,lived on the same street as the Fitzgibbons in Holyoke. So during this period in the 1860s, both a Patrick and an Andrew Donnellan are in the same townland in Crusheen. This Patrick Donnellan (married to Mary Fahy) is the Grandfather of May Donnellan/Cullinan whom I mentioned in a previous message. My records remind me that she told me that Mary Fahy came from Ballyturin, over the border in Kilbeacanty, Galway, which is the exact location where my Mangans originated!! Who knows, did Mary Fahy or her family help or encourage my Mangans to find employment as herdsmen working for Nicholas Butler, where they met my O'Connors, also herdsmen for Nicholas Butler, leading to at least one marriage. Their "boss" looks like being John Donlon (para. 1).

In summary, the Donnellan "footprint" in Crusheen gooes back a long time!

Deirdre

PhilDon
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:25 pm

Hello again everyone,

Please forgive me … it has been 10 days since my last confession … well my last communication at least.
But I have been busy …. I have been working my way back through all the Clare Past Forum topics …. even the topics, which on the surface may not seem remotely connected.
I’ve been printing and reading … and checking thru the attachments….. just looking for snippets of info’ that may give me a connection to help me to determine and confirm who the parents and siblings were of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole ..... and as a bonus along the way I came across some info’ from my maternal ancestry of the Reilly and Kenney families ...... Mums side of my family.

That last comment has probably come a bit out of left field ...but my family ancestry is about as Irish as we can possibly be .... but with a gentle sprinkling of English, Scotch and Danish.
Oh .... and not to forget my lovely wife whose parents were German and Polish ... so a good mixture.

I’ll try and explain .... and be as succinct as possible .... for me that is ....
My father was yes .... another... Thomas Donnellan, with as we know, the family origins being largely in Clare.
My mother was a Betty Riley ....(the surname having morphed from Reilly over the years) .... with her family origins from Dublin, Ireland.

The Donnellan family .... well you have walked a fair way down that road with me ... but the family arrived in Tasmania via Thomas Donnellan in 1899, who originally emigrated to South Australia ... arriving in 1880.

As for the Riley family ..... well our branch of that tree arrived in the Colony of Van Diemans Land (Tasmania)... in the form of 20 year old William Reilly, a convict who had been sentenced, in a Dublin court, to 7 years imprisonment, including transportation. He arrived in Launceston Town on the Convict transport ship, the “Lord Dalhousie” in August 1852.
He was the son of Richard Reilly and Mary Burke ?. who were living in Booterstown, Dublin, Ireland.
William would go on to marry Catherine Kenney ... (originally from Galway, Ireland) .... in the Catholic Church, Westbury, Tasmania in May 1858
Catherine’s father, Thomas Kenney, was also a convict, sentenced, in the Galway courts, to 10 years transportation to the Colonies.
He arrived in Hobart Town, Van Diemans Land, in March 1841 on the convict transport ship “British Sovereign”. He was 40 years of age.
On his release he was able to secure some land (new ground) .. and must have communicated this information to his wife Cecily (who was still in Ireland).
Together with her daughter, Catherine, they made their way to Tasmania ... arriving into Launceston, on the “Caroline Middleton” in February 1855.
I believe Thomas and Cecily also had two sons who both emigrated to the USA when their mother and sister left for Tasmania.

William and Thomas may have come to our colony as convicts ... (I have a total of seven convicts from Ireland and Great Britain in our Tree) .... but they weren’t inherently bad people .... moreover they were victims of circumstance.
In their new land, they proved to be hard workers and became honest and respected members of their newly forming communities.
For proof of this, one doesn’t have to look further past the virgin bush, with huge trees, that they had to clear to create their farms so as to forge a life for their families.....
All these pioneers, male or female, convict or immigrant .... these were extremely strong people who had the courage of their convictions in circumstances and conditions we could barely imagine.
And needless to say....
... without their courage, steely resolve, strength and perseverance ... our family doesn’t exist !!

Well the last few days I have been revisiting the Irish links of the Kenney family and it appears that some of the information that I have included in my Reilly Family tree is not or may not be correct.
Tricks I have learned thru you guys has helped me to realise that ...
I understand also, from your comments, that the borders have changed ... (a few times ??)... between Galway and Clare. That may not necessarily be of any consequence to me now ..... because I have checked the locations of a few place names, and I now believe that these Kenneys may have lived a little more west.
But .....Do you have a site in your library that crosses over into the ex Co Clare areas?
Is there a site that you can recommend I look to.
Is there a site you can recommend for Galway?

Also is there a site that focuses on the “Ireland to the colonies” convicts?.


In Closing ...

Kerry
Thanks for your advice on the naming conventions .... you had recommended that to me in an earlier
note .... part of the Genealogical Tool Kit.
I printed it off then and it takes pride of place in front of my work binder.
.... and no I do not have the death certificate of Michael D. .... in fact, unfortunately, I do not have to many DCs of any of my families members.

Deidre
Thanks for all that you included in your last post. To put it in a nutshell I think it has confirmed a couple of things and proved that I am well and truly ‘barking up the wrong tree’ with some others.
Briefly, I am comfortable that I have Andrew and Michael correct in that generation .... but am totally flummoxed with Patrick and Thomas. I think I’ve had them each married to three different ladies !!!
And aside from using the naming convention as being indicative of the parents names .... I don’t have a clue !!
My best guess at the moment for Andrew and Michaels parents are ..... Patrick and Bridget.
....but as I said GUESS !

I have put this in the too hard basket for a while but be back to it in the next few days

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

Cheers and keep safe
Phil D.

deirdre carroll
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:10 pm

Hello Phil,

Just a very quick thought. There is always the possibility that your ancestor(s) married more than once, which was not uncommon given high rates of maternal mortality during the 19th century. The Clune family were close neighbours of the Donnellans in Gortaficka - this might also explain the Clune connection.

Deirdre

kbarlow
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by kbarlow » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:40 am

Hi again Phil - for your penance, more time in the archives! Your Reilly ancestor arrived on the same ship in 1852 as my Bartholomew Hehir & Michael Hynes ancestors - the Lord Dalhousie!! As Alison Alexander's excellent book, Tasmania's Convicts - How Felons Built a Free Society shows, most were sentenced due to economic hardship and went on to settle into productive, although often difficult lives.

Re sources of convicts to Oz - there are several, depending on which state you are searching. I'm sure you know the Tas Archives site
https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/c ... _AU/names/

there is also the Tas site:
http://www.foundersandsurvivors.org/

A great site for Irish convicts to NSW, some of whom were then sent to Norfolk Island, then on to settle at New Norfolk, Tas (hence the name of the settlement)
http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-b ... /irish.cgi

cheers, Kerry

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