Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

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Sduddy
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Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Fri May 29, 2020 9:34 am

Hi Phil

It’s great that you have been able to get to grips with all of that.
Here’s just one more thing, which has more to do with social life than genealogy: Sharon picked up something I had missed, which is that Andrew’s occupation in the record of the birth of James in 1864 is Herdsman (not Labourer).
Unfortunately Herds are not mentioned in Griffith’s Valuation because they were not leasing land. But where you see Lessor’s name and “Herd’s house and Land” you know that a herd lived in that house. The job of Herd, as far as I can gather, was quite a “handy” number, in so far as there were certain perks going with the job. He was provided with a house (maybe not very commodious), plus he had the grazing of a cow, or two. An article entitled ‘A Class Quite Distinct’, by John Cunningham *, describes the contract been the herd and his employer as being somewhat elastic – the elasticity being generally in the favour of the herd. The grazing of a cow was called a collop, and a collop was decided by the quality of the land rather than by the quantity. It was difficult to lay down the law as to where the collop began, or ended. Cunningham says that the herd had a certain status in the community and could expect to marry a farmer’s daughter.
* ‘‘A Class Quite Distinct’: Western Herds and their defence of their Working Conditions’, by John Cunningham (p. 137), in The West of Ireland: New Perspectives on the Nineteenth Century, edited by Carla King and Conor McNamara (The History Press Ireland, 2011).

I forgot to say that Gortaficka is one of the townlands in the parish of Inchicronan (Crusheen). Click on No. 34 here – and read all about it: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... nlands.htm

Sheila

deirdre carroll
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Sat May 30, 2020 11:17 am

Hello again Phil,

I have access to the site findmypast.ie, which contains a vast amount of Irish records. Andrew Donnellan is shown in the Electoral Registers during the period 1885 to 1903 living at Gurthaficka (spelling of this townland varies frequently). There are two entries for 1885. Firstly, Michael Donnellan (Andrew) and separately Michael Donnellan are shown at Gurthnamearacaun (quite close). The second entry shows Andrew and Patrick separately in Gurthaficka. In 1879 Michael Donlan x 2 had dog licences at Gurthnamearacaun and Andrew Donlan (spellings changeable) had a licence at Clouneen. The reality is that herdsmen at that time moved around in an area. Michael Donnellan, my father's friend, born c. 1916, died sometime in the last 20 years. He used to visit our family home in Clontarf, Dublin, on his way to visiting his daughter in Howth. It's a pity he's not around, as he had a vast knowledge of names and events in that area.

Deirdre C.

Sduddy
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:45 am

Hi Deirdre

That extra information is interesting. You mention that two Michael Donnellans in Gortnamearacaun held gun licences. I think this is the death of one of them: 24 Sep 1885: Death of Michael Donnellan, Gortnamearacaun, aged 70, married, Labourer; informant: John Donnellan, son, Gortnamearacaun (This death was registered in Tulla – Gortnamearacaun, and a few other Crusheen townlands, belonged to Tulla Union). This John Donnellan, who reported his father’s death, might be the John who was baptised in Apr 1861 (son of Michael Donnellan and Catherine Connors, Gortnamearacaun), but of course there was a John in almost every family.
Another Michael Donnellan died on 22 Mar 1891, but he died in Sranagalloon, aged 76, widower, Farmer; informant: John Cullinan, Sranagalloon. I don’t know where Michael fits into the picture.
And then there is the death that Murf found: 05 Apr 1895: Death of Mary Donnellan, from Crusheen, aged 81, widow of a Labourer, (she died in Ennis Workhouse). I don’t know where Mary fits in either. She’s not the widow of Michael who died in 1891, as he was already a widower when he died.

Sheila

PhilDon
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:12 pm

Hello again to Everyone,

Thanks again for all your help.
I suppose I have been spurred on by your enthusiastic assistance and, to that end, have been putting in some fairly long hours on this keyboard.
But I’m afraid to say that all these Thomas, Patrick, John, Andrew and Michael Donnellans have just about done my head in !!!
So much so, that I believe it best to reassess my expectations …
I think it probably best that I settle for being happy to establish the Parents of Andrew Donnellan .… (married to Mary Conole) .. and his siblings. I haven’t really focused on Mary’s family yet … but do intend to.
Because of the links that you guys have directed my to I have been spotting a lot of this info’ ….
… but at the moment I am having trouble connecting the dots …. And ‘interpreting’ the info’ provided. …
eg: When another christian name appears in brackets after another like … Patrick (Andrew)…
… may be Pat son of Andrew ?? …. Not sure.

I have a tree on Ancestry.com at the moment … and have access to a few other genealogy freebies …. And just a few weeks ago subscribed to Find my past …. Plus of course, your library.
I have been putting a Donnellan tree together on Excel ….. my interpretations that is !
It is specific to this challenge for me ….. and I would like you guys to have a look at it ….. just as a guide as to where you may think I’m at.
If you wish to see it ….Do you have an email I could send it to …..

Also after sitting and reviewing a few notes,(from my many shoeboxes of info), I recalled that my Great Grandfather, Thomas Donnellan (1861 ? – 1932) .. son of Andrew D and Mary C. did communicate with his father.
I recall from my childhood that my father had an old cigar box filled with old photos, notes, letters and trinkets, that I believe he got from his grand father via his father. Both my parents have passed and I’m not sure what ever happened to that old box of 'gold'.
For some reason though the I seem to remember the town address that he used to write to as being Garrynagry and that the parents were apparently living alone at the time of his writing … must have been late 1890s … but not sure.
Is that of some help.

I am also putting together a list of all of the Donnellans that came to South Australia and Tasmania from Ireland …. From about 1840 onwards.
I have just found that there is a James (34) and Anne Donnellan (25) who arrived in Tasmania on the “Maitland” in September 1854. …. But somehow their ages don’t seem to line up with our generations …. But not sure.

Well that’ll do for now …. Hopefully I’ll have sorted things soon.

Cheers and Thanks again
Phil D.

murf
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Qld Australia

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by murf » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:41 pm

Hi Phil
You may wish to check out Assisted Immigrants from County Clare to New South Wales (1844-1887) at:
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ts_nsw.htm

The alphabetical file contains a list of Donnellans (various spellings) that landed in Sydney during this period and declared their birthplace as Co Clare. Two that immediately stand out are Catherine(22) and Mary(20) Donelan who arrived together on the David McIver in May 1852, giving their Native Place as Crusheen, Clare. Note that the spelling (Donelan) is the same as that used by the Gortaficka family in the 1901 census, suggesting that Catherine and Mary came from that family unit.
murf

kbarlow
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by kbarlow » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:13 am

Hi again Phil, the James Donnellan who arrived in Tas in 1854, from Clare, I believe is the same one who sponsored my relation Catherine Hynes (nee Hehir) who was from a townland near Corrofin, and coming to join her extended family in New Norfolk. He died in NN in 1879, with his widow Mary (not Anne, as in ship record) being the informant. I cannot find any births of children to him in Tas.

BTW, Clair Santry's fantastic toolkit helps us with understanding the baptism naming conventions in Ireland up until the early 1900s. Whilst the many gaps in the marriage & baptism records mean it is sometimes difficult to see where the baptised names sit in family order, I have still found the convention useful (see below).

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com ... names.html

cheers, Kerry

deirdre carroll
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by deirdre carroll » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:33 am

Hi Folks,

Just a few points. Sheila, the licences I was referring to were dog licences - not gun licences. While researching someone else yesterday, I came across Michael Donlon of Gurtnamearacaun holding a dog licence in 1874. The fact is there are many spellings for this name as there are for other Irish names. My own Manion/Mangan family name from Crusheen became Manning on entry to the US. It is often the fault of the transcriber rather than the family themselves. The same applies to townlands. The famous play "Lost in Translation"?? relates to this phenomenon. So it is important to note when doing the family tree that the Donnellan name comes in many forms.

The Donnellans appear in Griffith's Valuation, the main land record of the 19th century, in Gurtnamearacaun. Property 3(e) is in the name of Michael Donnellan (Andrew) and 3(g) is in the name of Michael Donnellan (Patrick), suggesting two brothers originally called Andrew and Patrick, both with sons called Michael.

Another key point is that Stranagalloon and Gortaficka are almost one and the same. Thomas Coffey's book on the "The Parish of Inchicronan (Crusheen)" covers this at page 18 when he refers to the old name becoming after 1837 "N. Gortaficka and Stranagalloon".

Deirdre C.

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:00 am

Hi Deirdre

I'm sorry about the mistake about the licences. Yes, I agree with everything you say about the various spelling of placenames and surnames. And I agree about the Sranagalloon being often used instead of Gortaficka and vice versa. I have a copy of Thomas Coffey's book and have looked it up a hundred times. It's a great local history and a very valuable resource

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:07 am

Hi Phil

That clue about Garrynagry (in Kilmaley parish) is a terrific help. I looked at the Kilmaley baptisms and saw Andrew Donnellan (in the midst of many Donnellans) and Mary Conole as the parents of Patrick, baptised January 1844, and Michael, baptised 22 May 1848.

Phil, I no longer think that Andrew is a son of the Andrew Donnellan who was in the townland of Gortnamearacaun (Inchicronan/Crusheen) in the early 1800s. I think it is much more likely that he belongs to Kilmaley parish. The information on Kilmaley is here: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ilmaly.htm and shows a John Donnellon living in Garrynagry at the time of Tithes (1826). Griffith’s Valuation shows a Patrick Donnellean in Garrynagry and a Patrick Donnellan in Ballyillaun. These two townlands are adjacent to each other in the north east of the parish. The Kilmaley baptisms show how the Donnellons increased and multiplied between 1828 and 1882. I’ve attached the Donnellan part of my own transcription of the Kilmaley baptisms to show the Donnellan births (1) in chronological order and (2) by the father’s name. I hope this will help you to single out the Donnellan men who are most likely to be brothers of Andrew.

I see that Andrew and Mary moved to the parish of Kilnamona some time between 1850 and 1853. The Inagh-Kilnamona parish register shows the baptisms of four more children: Mary in 1853, Bridget in 1859, and twins Andrew and Matthew in 1862. They moved to Crusheen then and James was born there in 1864. There are some children on your list whose baptisms I don’t see, but you probably have other records that show their birth years (they are John, Thomas and Elizabeth).

Phil, I strongly suspect that Andrew came to Crusheen as an employee (i.e. Herdsman), and not as a relative of Patrick Donnellan of Gortaficka. That’s just my opinion, of course. The 1901 census shows Margaret Donnellan in Garrynagry, a widow aged 60. She is Margaret née McGann and is the widow of Patrick Donnellan, One of her sons is Andrew aged 33. Margaret’s maiden name is Margaret McGann and she married Patrick Donnellan some years prior to the beginning of civil registration (1864) – this means that we have no record of the name of Patrick’s father. I don’t think he can be a son of the Patrick Donnellan and Mary Guthrie who are living in Garrynagry and having children baptised between 1847 and 1857, because that couple had son called Patrick in 1857. The Great Famine, and the number of evictions which followed, caused huge disruption (a rather mild word) in Kilmaly in those years, and this may account for some lack of continuity.
We don’t know the name of Andrew’s father either, of course, so knowing the name of Patrick’s father would not be any kind of conclusive evidence that he and Andrew were brothers, but I do think that they were brothers – mainly because of the contact between Thomas in Australia and Garrynagry and also because Patrick and Margaret in Garrynagry called one of their sons Andrew (the baptism of Andrew was not recorded, but his birth was registered in 1865).
I looked for the death of Patrick (Kilmaley deaths were registered in Ennis). I see a Patrick Donnellan died in 1873 aged 48 (i.e. born about 1825). However, the image of the record is not available to view online, so we don’t know if this is Patrick from Garrynagry.

Sheila
DonnellanKilmaleyFather'sNameAlphabetical.xlsx
(59.6 KiB) Downloaded 39 times
DonnellanKilmaley by date.xlsx
(54.64 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

Sduddy
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Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:12 am

Hi Phil, again

I think the information you gave in your first posting, when you said that most of the children of Andrew and Mary went to Delaware, is right. www.familysearch.org shows some Donlons living in Wilmington, Delaware, that fit quite well, as far as age is concerned, with the birth years of your Donlons. I only looked at a few of the results, and they showed the following:
(1) the birth of Elizabeth Donlon in Dec 1897 to James Donlon, aged 34, and Mary O’Donnell.
(2) the birth of Andrew Donlon in Feb 1888 to Michael Donlon, aged 39, and Mary Young.
(3) the birth of Annie Donlon in Feb 1888, to John Donlon, aged 40, and Mary Cummins.
(4) the United States Census, 1880, shows an Elizabeth Donlon, living in Wilimington, born in Ireland in 1862.
(5) A Mathew Donlon, born in Ireland, applied for Naturalization in New Castle, Delaware, in 1892, but the document doesn’t give his age.

That might account for 5 of the family. Thomas and Patrick went to Australia. But where are Mary, Bridget and Andrew?
Phil, are you wondering if any of these remained in Ireland?

Sheila

PhilDon
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:53 pm

Hello Everyone,

Just been trying to absorb this wealth of info' that you have provided , ... and not sure how to explain with any amount of continuity my understanding of it .... so decided to put it down like this ... hope its not too boring ... but here we go.

My Great Grandfathers Generation and how I see his siblings ...
re: The Children of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Patrick …. Baptised in Kilmaley, Co. Clare, on the 21st December 1843.
He immigrated to South Australia in September 1866 arriving on the “Ernerstine”.
He married Maria O’Loughlin … (daughter of Thomas O’loughlin and Mary Davoren …
…. also Irish immigrants from Co. Clare) …. In August 1873.
Patrick passed away in Spalding, South Australia in January 1911 aged 67.
They had 9 children

Michael …. Baptised in Kilmaley, Co. Clare, on the 22nd May 1848.
He immigrated to Delaware, USA, in mid 1871.
He married Mary Ann Berry …. In January 1875.
We are unsure of Michael’s passing … but he was last recorded, together with his wife,
in the USA Census of January 1920 …as being aged 71, in New Castle Co., Delaware.
They had 7 children.

John …. Baptised in Kilmaley, Co. Clare, on the 12th May 1852.
He immigrated to Delaware, USA, with Michael, in mid 1871.
He married Maria (Mary) Cummins (Commins) … (daughter of Thomas ?? Cummins
and Mary Hays …. also Irish immigrants from Co. Clare) …. In December 1874.
John passed away in Wilmington, Delaware, USA. In April 1895 aged 42
They had 10 children.

Mary…. Baptised in Buthane, Inagh, Co. Clare, on the 26th May 1853.
Can’t find too much about our Mary …. Troubling thing is that there were a couple of
deaths in the Co. where the birth dates looked close … but I need to revisit that info’.

Bridget … Baptised in Knockatemple, Inagh, Co. Clare, in January 1859.
We are almost certain that Bridget travelled to the USA with Elizabeth and James.

Elizabeth … Baptised in Inagh, Co. Clare.?? ...1860 ??
We are almost certain that she travelled to the USA with Bridget and James.
We believe she passed away in Philadelphia, USA

My Great Grandfather ….
Thomas …. Baptised in Crusheen, Co. Clare, in July 1861.
He immigrated to South Australia in 1880 arriving on the “Corona”. …. No virus !!!
He married Mary Ann Smith ….in North Adelaide, SA, in June 1889.
Thomas passed away in Strahan, Tasmania, Australia in January 1911 aged 67.
They had 5 children

Andrew … Baptised in Knockatemple, Inagh, Co. Clare, in March 1862.

Matthew … Baptised in Knockatemple, Inagh, Co. Clare, in March 1862.
### For some reason I have noted, in my scribble pad, that these guys passed away not long after birth.
Must have been something that I had seen or heard. … but don’t want to do them an injustice … I’ll go
back into it later.

James …. Baptised in Clankerane, Crusheen Co. Clare, on the 19th March 1864.
He immigrated to Delaware, USA around 1886.
He married Mary O’Donnell… also an Irish immigrant from Co. Clare ? … around 1894.
James passed away in Wilmington, Delaware, USA in 1931 aged around 67.
They had 5 children.

Pick this to pieces if you must ....I won't mind ... its got to be true and factual .... but I do think we are generally in sync ... I HOPE.
I will next try to put out there who I think may be my Great Great Grandfather's (Andrew) Siblings.
That'll test my powers of joining the dots !

Well that'll be all for tonight ... OZ time.
Thanks again for your brilliant help.

Cheers Guys
Phil D

PhilDon
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:32 pm

Hello Again to everyone,

Well got up this morning and was just checking thru all your contributions from the previous evening and immediately spotted an error in my reply ……… My Great Grandfather Thomas actually passed away in Strahan, Tasmania on the …. 9th January 1932 aged 70.
I suppose that’s what I get for trying to save time by cutting and pasting ...( when half asleep!!)
Sorry about that.

Cheers Phil D

PhilDon
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by PhilDon » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:49 pm

Hi Sheila,
Hopefully this does not sound naive but .... Just wondering what the site etiquette is for spreadsheets and similar info' posted on this site.
Are we allowed to save for our 'personal use' ?
Just that looking through a few of the items already provided by you and a couple of other guys and there is obviously a huge amount of effort gone into them.

I realise that the honesty policy would be the only way to manage it .... so just askin' !

Cheers Phil D.

kbarlow
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by kbarlow » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:25 am

Hi Phil - you may wish to look more closely at my post re Kapunda, SA, as that is where Patrick married O'Loughlin in 1873. It is also where a John Donnellan and Bridget (nee Kierce) are buried (St John's Catholic), both said to be of Kilmaley (a/c to Bridget's obituary of 1931). There are several O'Loughlins buried at Kapunda, including a Thomas (1810-1874).

There were 10 Donnellans on the Ernestine, including a Patrick (age 18); it is possible some of these were related to Patrick, as often cousins emigrated together; also a Patrick Donnellan (age 20) on the Charlotte Gladstone in 1866.

cheers, Kerry

smcarberry
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Location: USA

Re: Researching Family of Andrew Donnellan and Mary Connole

Post by smcarberry » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:17 pm

Phil has:
Michael …. Baptised in Kilmaley, Co. Clare, on the 22nd May 1848.
He immigrated to Delaware, USA, in mid 1871.
He married Mary Ann Berry …. In January 1875.
We are unsure of Michael’s passing … but he was last recorded, together with his wife,
in the USA Census of January 1920 …as being aged 71, in New Castle Co., Delaware.
They had 7 children.

My apology for taking so long to provide more input - my Internet slowed to zero yesterday so I couldn't do anything online till late. This morning I looked again at my file notes and have to correct my saying the 1925 news items was an obituary. It was a long account of the wedding anniversary of Michael and Mary (Barry). The attachment is part 3 of my saved version, with the right column having one paragrph listing all their children and the next paragraph showing Andrew and James plus married women likely the sisters. By the time of Michael's death in 1928, his wife had died. Here is his death info:

Michael Donlon widower
Death: 24 Jul 1928 burial Cathedral Cem
place: 514 E. 9 th St, Wilmington, New Castle, Delaware; living with daughter
age: 78 birth: 16 Jul 1850 b. Ire
father: Andrew mother: Mary Connole
LDS film 1944060

Here is what I have on his son James, including the mother's maiden name being misspelled:
James J. Donlon
Death 15 Jul 1936 place: Wilmington, New Castle, Delaware burial Cathedral Cem
age: 53 birth: 3 Aug 1883 b. DE
foreman, P. R.R. Shops, residing 1321 Lovering Ave, spouse: Mary J. Donlon
father: Michael Donlon b. Ire mother: Margaret Barney b/ Ire
LDS film 1944074

Date of Baptism: 1883 08 12
Date of Birth: 1883 08 04
Person Baptised: James* Donlon
Father: Michael Donlon
Father's Place of Birth: Co. Clare, Ireland
Mother: Maria (Mary) A. Barry
Mother's Place of Birth/Address: Brandywine Hundred, DE
Sponsors: John Leonard, Elizabeth Leonard
Priest: Flynn, Dennis J., St. Mary's Church, Wilmington
LDS film 1788025
Comment: James Donlan married to Mary F. McGowan at St. Charles, Parkview, Del Co., PA June 16, 1909

For two of the daughters:
Agness Donlon
birth: 06 Aug 1891
birthplace: Wilmington, New Castle, Delaware
father: Michael Donlon, blacksmith helper father's birthplace: Ireland father's age: 42
mother: Mary Ann Barry mother's birthplace: Wilmington, Del. mother's age: 35
LDS film 6337

Annie Donlon, mother's 5th child
birth date: 05 Feb 1886
birthplace: 802 E. 8th St., Wilmington, New Castle, Delaware
father: Michael Donlon, watchman father's birthplace: Ireland father's age: 37
mother: Mary A. Barry mother's birthplace: New Castle, Delaware mother's age: 28
LDS film 6331

These are details that can help in following the family in the censuses and military records, which are easily found via FamilySearch.org or Ancestry.com. I am just providing the bits that I saved long ago before those services had enough data to use with their search engines.

I am posting this quickly before my Internet slacks off again with all the business-related activity now that everyone is working from home.

Sharon Carberry
Michael Baltimore 1925 pt3.jpg
Michael Baltimore 1925 pt3.jpg (74.32 KiB) Viewed 1031 times

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