O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

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miriam
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O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by miriam » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:36 pm

Hi

Would anybody have information on this family. My GGGgrandmother Mary O'Loughlin died in Limerick in 1911. I believe her maiden name was Keating. In her obituary it says she was married to Michael O'Loughlin, a blacksmith from the Donogan/Kilmihil area. I would welcome any information on either the O'Loughlin family or the Keating family

Thanks
Miriam

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 am

Hi Miriam

I looked for Mary O’Loughlin’s death in Limerick in 1911 (irishgenealogy.ie), hoping that the name of the person who reported the death would give some clues, but failed to find it. It may be that her death was not reported. I looked for her in the 1911 census and again failed to find her, but it may be that she had died before the census was taken on Apr. 1st.
The Kilmihil baptisms (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up) show the baptisms of two children of Michael O’Loughlin and Mary Keating: (1) Ellen on 24th Apr. 1853 and (2) John on 11th Oct. 1854.

I looked at civil records of O’Loughlin marriages and deaths (Kilrush Union) and saw two records that are interesting:
(1) 5th Oct. 1886: Death of Mary O’Loughlin, aged 90, Doonogan, widow of Martin O’Loughlin, Farmer; informant: John O’Loughlin, Doonogan. Clearly, this is not your Mary O’Loughlin, who was married to Michael O’Loughlin, but Martin O’Loughlin may be a relative of Michael.
(2) 23rd Aug. 1882: Birth of Michael O’Loughlin to John O’Loughlin, Servant, Kilmore*, and Mary Kerin. I checked to see if I could find the marriage of a John O’Loughlin to a Mary Kerin and I found this marriage registered in Ennis: 7th Feb. 1880: Marriage of John O’Loughlin, aged 25, Ennis, Coachman, son of Michael O’Loughlin, Surveyor, dead, to Mary Kerin, aged 24, Servant, Ennis, daughter of Thomas Kerin, Farmer, alive, in Ennis Church; witnesses: James Morrissy, Bridget Kerin. But could Michael O'Loughlin, Surveyor, be the same man as your Michael O'Loughlin who was a blacksmith? I don't know.
* The townland of Kilmore is in the parish of Kilmurry-Clonderlaw, but in the registration district of Kilmihil (Kilrush Union).

Griffiths Valuation 1856 shows a Michael O’Loughlin leasing a house in the townland of Cahermurphy in the parish of Kilmihil. This might be your Michael.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:24 pm

Apologies Miriam – just after I sent that reply I realised that I had not looked carefully enough. I found the record of the death of Mary OLoughlin: 11th Jan. 1911: Death of Mary OLoughlin, Pennywell [Limerick], widow, aged 80; informant: Anne Glynn.
And I found that Mary OLoughlin is the 1901 census. She is Mother in Law in the household of Timothy Glynn aged 54, Little Dominick Street (Limerick Urban No. 2). Timothy’s occupation is Gardener. Ellen, Timothy’s wife, aged 46, must be the Ellen who was born in 1853. Mary, Timothy and Ellen and the first five of the children (Timothy and Ellen's) give their birthplace as Co. Clare.
In 1911, Timothy Glynn is Theady Glynn aged 69, Gardener, living in Roxton Terrace (Limerick Urban No. 6). This census shows that Theady and Ellen are married 38 years. The civil record shows that the marriage of Theady and Ellen took place on 13th Feb. 1872 when Ellen was aged 19: Timothy Glyn, Land Steward, Loughill, son of Timothy Glynn, Farmer, married Ellen O’Loughlin, Loughill, daughter of Michael O’Loughlin, Smith, in Loughill chapel; witnesses: John O’Shea, Mary O’Riordan. The marriage was registered in the registration district of Shanagolden, Glin Union, Co. Limerick.

A baptism I forgot to include in the above posting is that of Biddy O’Loughlin, of Michael O’Loughlin and Mary Keating, Doonogan, on on 25th Dec. 1856; sponsors: Peter Mongovan, Mary O’Loughlin (Kilmurry Ibrican baptisms: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... h_n-om.htm). It appears from this that Michael and Mary had left Kilmihil by 1856 and moved to Kilmurry Ibrican, or that Michael and Mary were visiting Michael’s home at the time of the birth.

Sheila

murf
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Location: Qld Australia

Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by murf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:09 am

Hi Miriam and Sheila
From the Mount Saint Lawrence Burial Register:
Mary O'Loughlin
Age at Death: 81 years
Burial Date: January 20 1911
Note that her date of death from the death certificate is also 20 Jan 1911.

Miriam, I presume that the obit that you refer to is that from the Limerick Leader of 27 Jan 1911.
Two points to note from this:
"Deceased belonged to a very old and respected family..."
Do they refer to the O'Loughlin or Keating family?
Also,
"American and Australian papers please copy."
Suggests that some members of the family(s) emigrated to these locations.

murf
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Qld Australia

Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by murf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:45 am

Further to above and again from the MSL Register:
Michael Loughlin
Age at Death: 70 years
Burial Date: September 24 1883
and the corresponding civil death entry:
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached....(Grrr)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 821393.pdf
These two records are a match with each other(note dates) in spite of the conflicting age at death.
There is no guarantee that this Michael O'Loughlin is your Mary's husband(the occupation of Laborer in lieu of Blacksmith is a worry), but I submit it as a possibility anyway.

I notice that Limerick trade directories feature a James O'Loughlin, blacksmith in the years 1877-1880.
http://www.limerickcity.ie/webapps/Trad ... x?ID=47238
Could this be a son of Michael?

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:38 am

Hi Murf and Miriam,

No, James O’Loughlin in the Trades Directory is not a son of Michael. The civil records show this death: 19th Mar. 1880, James O’Loughlin, aged 55, 23 Queens St., married; occupation: Smith and Farrier; informant: Anne O’Loughlin.
So James was born about 1825.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:31 pm

I said that the first five children of Thady Glynn and Ellen O’Loughlin were born in Clare, but now I find that their first child was John, born in Limerick city on 6th June 1873. John married Margaret Downey in 1899: 21st Jan. 1899: John Glynn, aged 23, Labourer, King’s Island, St. Marys [Limerick], son of Timothy Glynn, Gardener, married Margaret Downey, Penny Well [Limerick], daughter of William Downey, Labourer; witnesses: John Clark, Kate O’Dwyer.
The 1901 census shows John and Margaret Glynn living in Little Dominick Street; John’s occupation is Railway Man. In 1911, they are living in Roxton Terrace; John’s occupation is Railway Guard, and he and Margaret have 4 children.
Ellen died in 1928, and Theady (Timothy) died in 1930. The person who reported Theady’s death was Margaret Glynn, described as “daughter”, but I believe this was Margaret Downey, his daughter-in-law.

In the 1911 census, Timothy and Ellen give the number of children born to them as 6, but they misunderstood the question, or the enumerator got it wrong and only gave the number who were still living at home; the number of children born to them was at least 11.
The records of the births of the (6) children who were born in Clare show that the job of Gardener brought Timothy to different parts of the county:
Bridget Glynn was born 21st Jan. 1876, in Mountcallan, in the parish of Inagh, Co. Clare. The birth was registered in Miltown Malbay, Ennistymon Union.
Timothy Joseph Glynn was born 16th Apr. 1879, Arthur’s Row, Ennis. Mary Glynn was also born in Arthur’s Row, on 17th Feb. 1878. Anne Glynn was also born in Arthur’s Row, on 3rd May 1881.
Michael Glynn was born 29th Dec. 1883, Erina, in the parish of Kiltenanlea, Co. Clare. Martin Glynn was also born in Erina, on 20th Sept. 1886. These two births were registered in Bridgtown, Limerick Union.
The last 4 children, Patt, Ellen, Thomas and Catherine, were born in Limerick.

Sheila

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:20 am

Hi Miriam

Baptism records are often more useful than the civil records of births - baptism records give the names of the sponsors, and these sometimes provide clues. The baptism of the first child is usually the best for this, as it was usual for close relatives to be asked “to stand for” this child. So I looked for the baptism of John Glynn in Limerick city, where there are 5 parishes, but failed to find the baptism of John. Then I looked for the baptism of Bridget in Inagh-Kilnamona parish: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up
23.01.1876: Brid Glynn of Tim Glynn and Ellen O’Loughlan [no address entered]; sponsors: Dan and Brid Callaghan (page 69 online). I suspect that these Callaghans were just friends, or neighbours.
But I had some success when I looked at the baptisms of Mary Glynn and Timothy Joseph Glynn in Drumcliff parish (Ennis): https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up
19.02.1878: Mary Glynn of Thady Glynn and Ellen O’Loghlin, Arthur’s Row; sponsors: Michael O’Loghlin, Kate O’Loghlin (page 274 online)
17.04.1879: Timothy Joseph Glynn of Thady Glynn and Ellen Loughlin, Arthur’s Row; sponsors: John Loughlin, Monica McCann (page 285 online).
I strongly suspect that Michael, Kate and John O’Loghlin are siblings of Ellen. And this suggests to me that the O'Loughlins had moved to the town of Ennis, or close to it. It's possible that Kate is the wife of Michael, but I think not - the priest usually entered the maiden name of a female sponsor.

The baptisms after 1880 are not available online in order to protect privacy, so I was unable to check the baptism of Anne in 1881. Likewise the others born after that date.

I think it’s very likely that Mary Keating did not leave Clare and go to Limerick to live with her daughter, Ellen, until she (Mary) was an old lady. I think Mary’s husband, Michael O’Loughlin, was no longer alive when she moved and I think it very likely that he died in Co. Clare.

Sheila

miriam
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by miriam » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:07 am

Hi Sheila and Murf

Thank you both so much for all your work.

Sheila, I do have all the records of the Glynn family. Yes the obituary you referred to is the one I have. I think it refers to the Keating family rather than the O'Loughlin family. I tried to attach it here but it just wouldn't happen for me.
I had found the birth of John O'Loughlin but had not come up with Ellen, Michael and Kate so I appreciate that. And I will look into those and see if I can find anything. Brigid Glynn was my great grandmother.
I had presumed, as you do, that Mary moved to live with her daughter after the death of her husband, I have not been able to find a death record for him however.
Timothy/Thady Glynn was a very proud Clare man and although he lived much of his life in Limerick he declared he would be buried in Clare so he purchased his own grave in Doonass, just over the Clare border and he was buried there in 1930.
I really do appreciate your input, thank you

Miriam

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:02 pm

Hi Miriam

In my first reply I mentioned the marriage of a John O’Loughlin in Ennis in 1880. The record of the marriage showed that he was aged 25 and that his father was Michael, so I considered him a good canditate for John O’Loughlin born 1854. However, subsequent records show that he was probably a few years older. In 1901, he is living in Sraheen, in the parish of Clooney, and gives his age as 52 (his occupation is still Coachman). In 1911 he gives his age as 64. So I think you can scratch that John.

Have you found any records for Bridget O’Loughlin, who was born to Michael O'Loughlin and Mary Keating in Doonogan in 1856?

Sheila

miriam
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by miriam » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for clarifying about John. I have not seen the records regarding Birdget, I looked at the Kilmihil records for 1856 but I can't see it. That could just be me tho, am I right in presuming the parish for Doonogan is Kilmihil?
Of course I made a mistake in my last message, I did have the records for Ellen O'Loughlin, she is my GGG grandmother.

Miriam

Sduddy
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:04 pm

Hi Miriam

No, Doonogan is in the parish of Kilmurry Ibrickan. The baptims of both Ellen (14th Apr. 1853) and John (11th Oct. 1854) took place in the parish of Kilmihil. No address is given, but Griffith’s Valuation (1856) shows a Michael O’Loughlin leasing a house in the townland of Cahermurphy, which is a townland in the parish of Kilmihil, so that may be where these two children were born. Here is some information on the parish of Kilmihil: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... lmihil.htm
The sponsors for Ellen are Anne? Murphy and John Murphy. The sponsors for John are Michael Egan and Bridget Murphy. I think these are just neighbours – not relatives.

The baptism of Biddy (1856) took place in the parish of Kilmurry Ibrickan, and the address is Doonogan, a townland in that parish. The sponsors are Peter Mongovan and Mary O’Loughlin. Here is a transcription of the Kilmurry Ibrickan baptisms: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... h_n-om.htm.
I think that when Biddy was born, Michael and Mary had returned to Michael’s home – maybe just for a short stay. Here is some information on the parish of Kilmurry Ibrickan: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ickane.htm.

Sheila

miriam
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by miriam » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:13 pm

Sheila,

You have been extremely helpful thank you so much. I would never have found Bridget without you and now I have more of an idea where Doonagan is I can concentrate on that area.

Many Thanks
Miriam

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by Sduddy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:00 am

Hi Miriam

US records are often more helpful than Irish records. The US marriage and death records often give both parents’ names. So I went to http://www.familysearch.org and searched for O’Loughlin; Birth year (range), 1850-1870; Father Name: Michael O’Loughlin; Mother name: Mary Keating. And got these results:
(1) Martin J. O’Laughlin, born 1860; died 3 February 1923 at Lake City, Wabasha, Minnesota; Father: Michael O. Laughlin; Mother: Mary Keating; Spouse: Margaret O’Laughlin (Minnesota Death and Burials, 1835-1990).
(2) Frank M. O’Laughlin; born 1864; died 11 February 1922 at Lake, Wabasha, Minnesota; father: Michael O’Laughlin; mother: Mary Keating (Minnesota Deaths and Burials, 1835-1990).

When I looked for Martin O’Loughlin, Minnesota (with nothing else) I got 5 results for Martin: (1) Martin in the 1865 Minnesota State Census; (2) Martin in the 1875 Minnesota State Census; (3) Martin (Olauglin) in the 1885 Minnesota State Census; (4) Martin J. in the 1905 Minnesota State Census 1905; (5) Martin J. in the US 1910 census. All of these show that he was born in Minnesota.
So, if Martin’s parents, Michael O’Loughlin and Mary Keating, are the same as your Michael and Mary, it seems they emigrated to America sometime between the birth of Bridget in Doonogan in 1856 and the birth of Martin in Minnesota abt. 1860.
(1) the 1865 Minnesota State Census show the O’Laughlins living at Mount Pleasant, Washaba, Minnesota. The members of the household are Michael O’Laughlin, Mary O’Laughlin, Mike O’Laughlin, James O’Laughlin, Martin O’Laughlin and Frank O’Laughlin (the image of the original document is viewable, and this would give ages and birthplaces, but when I clicked on it, it didn’t work for me – you might have better luck)
(2) the 1875 Minnesota census shows the O’Loughlins still living at Mount Pleasant, Wabasha, Minnesota. The members of the household are Mary O’Loughlin aged 50, born in Ireland; Magerett O’Loughlin aged 28, born in Ireland; Mike O’Loughlin aged 26, born in Ireland; Annie O’Loughlin aged 24, born in N.Y.; James O’Loughlin aged 20, born in N.Y; Martin O’Loughlin aged 15, born in Minnesota; Frank O’Loughlin aged 12, born in Minnesota.
(3) the 1885 Minnesota State Census shows the Olauglins still living at Mount Pleasant, Wabasha. The members of the household are Mary, aged 57, born in Ireland, Martin aged 24, Frank aged 22, Margaret aged 35, born in New York; E Mary Olauglin aged 9. Also Martin Kerwin aged 24 and Peter Kerwin aged 30, both born in Ireland (again I failed to get the image of the original document).
(5) the 1910 census shows Martin J O’Loughlin living at Lake, Wabasha, Minnesota. The members of the household are Martin aged 48, his wife Margaret aged 40, his sons Richard aged 14 and Robert aged 4, and his brother Frank aged 43. Ireland is entered as the birthplace of the parents of Martin and Frank.

It appears from all this that Michael O’Loughlin died in Minnesota sometime between 1865 and 1875. I looked on familysearch for the death of Michael O’Loughlin, Wabasha, Minnesota, 1865-1875 and got this:
(1) Michael O’Loughlin, Find a Grave Index, birth: 1811; death 1868; burial: Lake City, Wabasha, Minnesota. When I clicked on this result, however, I got nothing more, but I feel certain that this is Michael the husband of Mary Keating.
I then looked for the death of Mary O’Loughlin, Wabasha, Minnesota, 1885-1910, and straighaway got the death of Mary O’Loughlin, Find A Grave index, birth 1825, 1895; burial:Lake City, Wabasha, Minnesota. The accompanying image from findagrave.com shows that the burial was in Saint Marys Cemetery and there's a link showing the other O'Loughlin burials in that cemetery: https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/834 ... -123349736

Miriam, you may have all of this information already, but I have no way of knowing, so forgive me if you have. If you already have this information, do you know if Michael and Mary are your forebears, or if they are some other Michael O’Loughlin and Mary Keating? I must say I consider them a very good fit for your Michael and Mary.

Sheila

miriam
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Re: O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

Post by miriam » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:29 am

Hi Sheila

Well, you have given me some things to consider.
I just don't know if it is possible that the family in Minnesota is my family. Martin seemed a good fit until his parents turned up.
My GGgrandmother was Ellen O'Loughlin, daughter of Michael and Mary Keating. Why would she have stayed behind in Ireland when siblings of hers, both older and younger going by the ages on the US census, went to America?
My grandmother (who lived until she was 91 and died 10 years ago) would surely have mentioned it if her grandparents once lived in America. And Mary Keating O'Loughlin died in Limerick in 1911 so that is definitely not her who died in Minnesota. On her obituary it did say 'American and Australian papers please copy' so I do know she must have had family in America but I am doubtful that the family you found is the right one.
I almost want to say 'yes, that's them' because you have gone above and beyond on this one :)

Once again thank you for all your work
You're a star!
Miriam

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