Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestions?

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bd77690
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Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestions?

Post by bd77690 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:30 am

Hello. I have been working on my family history, specifically my line going back to Co. Clare, every spare moment I have the past few months, but I am hitting a brick wall that I cannot seem to break through. I have revisited it over and over, but have yet to make any real progress. I was wondering if anyone could give me some suggestions on where else I might be able to find information. I am in the US and cannot simply up and travel to Ireland (I wish!) so that is also limiting me somewhat. Here is what I do know and have been able to verify through sources:

I am looking for information on Patrick Crowe, as well as working further back from him. I know that he was from Querrin, and he married Honora Clohessy on July 29th, 1883 at Cross, Kilrush. He was 32 when married, so born approximately 1851. His father, as stated on the marriage license, is James Crowe, who was a farmer. Honora died in 1894 and is buried in Templemeeagh with their son, Martin (who died in 1918 from wounds sustained in WWI). The 1901 census has Patrick as a widower, with children Mary (born abt. 1887), Martin (born 1889), and John (born abt. 1894). However, on the 1911 census, it states that Patrick has another daughter, Nora, born abt. 1891. He was still in Querrin as of the 1911 census.

I believe that Patrick's father, James, applied for freeholder in 1842 in Knockbegg, Clonderalaw, Kilrush. It stated that he was a farmer. I am NOT 100% sure of this, but I believe it is him.

I cannot find any information other than this about Patrick and his parents (and further back). I know a lot of the records from around those times were destroyed, and I'm not sure where else to look. I have already tried Ancestry, FamilySearch, everything I could think of from the Clare Library site, irishgenealogy.ie's records, any Census records or portions of them that I could find. I cannot find a birth/baptism for Patrick, a marriage record that seems even remotely close to matching James, etc. Nothing that would help me go further or trace other family members.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thank you in advance!

pwaldron
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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:52 am

There is another discussion of this family at https://www.facebook.com/groups/countyc ... 349401309/

murf
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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by murf » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:58 am

I had a quick look thru the civil births and found the following children for Patrick and Honora Crowe:
Margaret(1884), Mary(1885), Ellen(1886), Martin(1888), Honor(1889), twins James and John(1892), and Ned(1893).
In the 1901 census it may be Margaret and Honora, visitors in the nearby household of Martin Hedderman.
James and Ellen died from croup on the same day in 1893.
I found no death in this period for Ned, but it is interesting to note in the 1901 census that there is an Edward Crowe (5 years) grandson of widow Kate Clohessy(63) in the townland of Rehy East, Kilballyowen Parish.
Hope this helps,
murf

murf
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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by murf » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:15 pm

Further to the above:
Edmond Clohessy(58) of Rehy, husband of Kate died 9 Jun 1893
and from Carrigaholt RC Parish Marriage Records, 1852-1878
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... olt_rc.htm

Edmond Clohessy married Kate Green 11 Feb 1860

These would appear to be the parents of Honora Clohessy Crowe.

Have you seen also the death registration for James Crowe on 19 Dec 1889. This states that he was a widower at that time.
I couldn't turn up a likely candidate for his wife in the death index, perhaps when the remaining records finally come online.
Murray Ginnane, author of the Carrigaholt Marriage Transcripts has also done a lot of work on the baptism records. May be worthwhile sending him a PM.

pwaldron
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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:23 am

Hi bd77690

I didn't recognise your new username on this forum until I looked back at your Facebook username.

As I posted on your Facebook thread, the official verdict is that "Private Martin Crowe died of accidental wounds whilst on leave in Ireland on 29 March 1918".

murf has beaten me to it on a few points, such as the fact that Patrick Crowe's daughters Margt. and Hanorah/Nora Crowe were visiting their Hedderman neighbours on the night of the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... n/1080306/
Mrs. Catherine Hedderman was née Clohessy and may have been their greataunt, but I cannot prove this.

In Querrin in Griffith's Valuation in 1855, James Crowe occupied (no. 41a) a house and offices with rateable annual valuation of 30 shillings on 48a 0r 18p. He was the only Crowe in the townland. I had no doubt that this was Patrick's father even before I found his death certificate (with his son Pat of Querrin as the informant) at
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 744728.pdf

James also had a daughter Ellen, who married back in 1868:

!MARRIAGE: AUGUST 2nd 1868 JOHN HEDERMAN from QUERRIN
to ELLEN CROW from QUERRIN
MICHAEL MULVIHILL & BRIDGET HEDERMAN MM = Michael Meehan

!MARRIAGE:
Name: John Hedderman
Spouse's Name: Ellen Crowe
Event Date: 09 Aug 1868
Event Place: Carrigaholt, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name: Martin Hedderman
Spouse's Father's Name: James Crowe
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70240-4
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
GS Film number: 101533
Reference ID: p142 ln62
Citing this Record:
"Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZR-HW1 : 12 December 2014), John Hedderman and Ellen Crowe, 09 Aug 1868; citing Carrigaholt, Clare, Ireland, reference p142 ln62, index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 101,533.

One of Ellen's descendants posted this at
https://www.ancestry.com.au/boards/surn ... .1/mb.ashx
"My great grandmother Ellen Crowe married John Hederman in Querrin Ireland abt 1868. They came to USA in 1880 and settled in the area of Thompson Ct. and Worcester Co. Mass. They are burried in Calvary Cemetary, Dudley, Mass.
I belive [sic] Ellen was the daughter of John [sic] Crowe."
[Ellen's marriage certificate confirms that her father was James.]

There are no surviving marriage records for Carrigaholt parish for the time at which James married Ellen and Patrick's mother, so I didn't initially think it would be possible to go back further.

However, James remarried in 1865, and there are both civil and church records of that marriage and the civil record gives you the name of James's father:

!MARRIAGE: FEBRUARY 10th 1865 JAMES CROWE from QUERRIN
to HANNA HEDERMAN [ = Hannah HEDDERMAN ?] from QUERRIN
MICHAEL HASSET & MARY HASSET [=Hassett ?] Revd I or J McM

!MARRIAGE:
Name: James Crowe
Spouse's Name: Anne Hederman
Event Date: 26 Feb 1865
Event Place: Camgaholt, Kilrush, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name: Luke Crowe
Spouse's Father's Name: Pat Hasset
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70233-4
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
GS Film number: 101473
Reference ID: P-450 C-30
Citing this Record:
"Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHL-S56 : 12 December 2014), James Crowe and Anne Hederman, 26 Feb 1865; citing Camgaholt, Kilrush, Clare, Ireland, reference P-450 C-30, index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 101,473.

There is no James or Luke Crowe in Moyarta parish in the Tithe Applotment Book of 17 Nov 1827:
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ta_tab.htm

There are listings for James Crowe and Luke Crowe in Carrowncalla in Kilrush parish, just across Poulnasherry Bay from Querrin via the ferry:
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... Cullen.htm
This may be your Luke, but I eventually figured out that it's probably not your James.

Luke Crowe and another male and seven females were evicted by Colonel Vandeleur between 1847 and 1849 from Leadmore, Carmacalla, Ballynote, Monmore, Moyhasta, Banemore or Dysart:
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... sure57.htm

There is no Crowe left in Carrowncalla in Griffith's Valuation in 1855.

We find James's marriage in Kilrush parish:

!MARRIAGE: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 8/mode/1up
`234
4 James Crowe of Moyarta [parish?] mar: at the priest's house
to Marg. McMahon d: of James Mac Mahon of Cappa'
Witnesses were Js. McMahon and Margaret Cunningham.

James and Margaret had four children baptised in Kilrush parish up to 1839, so perhaps the move to Querrin (where there are no surviving baptismal records for the 1840s) pre-dated the aforementioned evictions.

Or perhaps you are correct and he went briefly to Knockbegg before coming back to Querrin.

The last Kilrush baptism gives the address as Cappa, suggesting that James may have married into the McMahon homestead:

!CHRISTENING: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up
`5 3900 Mary Cappa James Crowe Peggy McMahon [sponsors] Jams. Nolan Honor Do.'

Your daughter now has an impressive family history - nine generations back to Luke Crowe and James McMahon!

I see that you are now up on GEDmatch and AncestryDNA, which may help you to fill in more gaps in the narrative.

I'll leave the Clohessy side for another day.

Paddy

pwaldron
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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:28 am

murf is correct: Ned/Edward is with his maternal grandmother in both censuses:

!CENSUS: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... t/1077724/
(1901 - house 9 in Rehy East (Rahona, Clare)) Crowe Edward 5 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic Co Clare Scholar Read Irish and English Not Married -

!CENSUS: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... st/360201/
(1911 - house 13 in Rehy East (Rahona, Clare)) Crowe Edward 17 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic Co Clare Scholar Read and write Irish and English Single - - - -

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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:29 am

James Crowe was a widower when he died in 1889, so his second wife must be the only Ann* Crowe whose death was registered in Kilrush between their marriage and his death.

!DEATH: Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
Name: Anne Crowe
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Date of Registration: 1874
Death Age: 67
Registration district: Kilrush
Volume: 4
Page: 252
FHL Film Number: 101587

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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 am

Clarefield is two townlands east of Querrin, so this may be your Luke Crowe:

http://www.csorp.nationalarchives.ie/se ... earchfocus

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Re: Hitting brick wall @ Patrick Crowe & parents - suggestio

Post by pwaldron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:01 am

I'm not sure which Crowe this is:

https://www.duchas.ie/ga/cbes/5162147/5158776/5198240
Westby had a sub agent in Querrin named Crowe who was very hard. At last Westby gathered all the tenants together and compared their rent receipts with the amounts actually received by him through Crowe. Finding a large deficiency he dispensed with Crowe's services.

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