Leitire location?

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Rozanne
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Leitire location?

Post by Rozanne » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:53 am

I'm a newbie here. Many thanks to Sheila for transcribing so many Clare records, including the Tulla Baptisms 1819-1846, where I find my possible ancestor listed with a residence of Leitire. I cannot find Leitire anywhere in searches or on maps. Can someone tell me where it is or if it is a townland name or location that no longer exists, what it is called today? Thanks so much!

Rozanne

Sduddy
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Re: Leitire location?

Post by Sduddy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:34 am

Hi Rozanne

The Tithe Applotment books show that Leitra is a subdivision of the townland of Tyredagh: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... la_tab.htm
The Tithe Applotment books were transcribed by volunteers for the genealogy section of the clarelibrary.ie site, thus providing a very handy way of looking at the information contained in those books.
At the time that the Tithe Applotment books were drawn up (1827 for Tulla), the outlines, or boundaries of townlands had not yet been decided and mapped. So the area that was called Tyredagh at that time may not be exactly the same as the townlands of Tyredagh Upper and Tyredagh Lower that you see outlined in the Tulla map: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... parish.htm
I’m saying this so that you won’t be very surprised if your ancestor appears in Griffith’s Valuation (1855) as living in a nearby townland.

If you compare the names that occur in the subdivision of Derryriree & Leitera, in Tithes, with the names that occur in the baptisms (attached), and then compare them with the names that occur in Tyredagh, Upper, and Tyredagh, Lower, in Grifftih’s Valuation, you may be able to figure out where Leitra was located (roughly).

Rozanne, I hope you won’t mind if I use your query to demonstrate how I would go about finding out where Leitra was located. For this demonstration I will imagine that Michael Stephens in the baptisms is my ancestor (the baptisms show Michael Stephens and Mary Donahoe are the parents of Teresa Stephens born 1832):
Go to Tithes at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... la_tab.htm
This shows Mich’l Stephens in the Tyredagh subdivision called Derryriree & Leitera.
Now go to Griffith’s at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... /tulla.htm
But Griffith’s does not show any Stephens in Tyredagh Upper, or in Tyredagh Lower. This does not mean, however, that we will not find out (roughly) where Michael Stephens lived. We will go back to Tithes again and this time look at his neighbour, Connor Donohoe. We see that Connor is also mentioned in the baptisms. But, alas, he is not in Griffith’s either. So back we go yet again to Tithes and find another neighbour of Mich’l Stephens, this time Peter Powell. We see Peter mentioned in the baptisms. And, yessss, Peter is in Griffith’s. He is in Tyredagh Upper. So now we can go to http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _upper.htm, and click on the external the link to Griffith’s (askaboutireland). Note the headings of the columns, i.e: Original Page; Map View. Now scroll down to find Peter Powell, and click on “Original Page”. Here we see that Peter Powell is leasing plot 11a from Jeremiah Keeffe. This plot (farm) is made up of two pieces of land, A & B. A is one is 1 acre, 3 roods and 35 perches; B is 3 roods, 30 perches. Peter’s house is in the larger piece, and this is where he lived. So now, having noted all that, we go back and this time click on “Map Views” (on the same external site). It takes a minute for the map to appear and then it takes a while to locate the townland of Tyredagh, Upper (I found it at the left side of the box – it’s a long townland – the “T” of “Tulla” is at the bottom end). Finally we can see plot 11A. It is towards the north of the townland close to where there is a kind of bottleneck. At this point, we must note some characteristics of the surrounding area. For instance there is a group of houses at the east end of plot 11. A little road runs by the northern end. We must even note the shapes of the fields – for instance the funnel shape that leads eastwards and ends at Peter’s house. Now we can go back to Tyredagh Upper http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _upper.htm, and this time click on Bing maps satellite view with OS Map overlay. And here we see that funnel shape and we see that plot 11 A & B have been planted with conifers. This indicates to me that the land was not very fertile. But, when a lot of work was put into it, it must have been good enough to support the family that Peter and his wife, Joan Lahive, raised there. His neighbours, Connor Donohoe and Michael Stephens must have lived nearby and raised families also. And so that is how I find out where Michael Stephens lived.

When you are looking at this attachment, bear in mind that it represents only a fraction of the baptisms in Leitra. Many baptisms were unrecorded. Those that were recorded were often not given an address. Also the addresses given were often illegible – so some were not transcribed at all and some were mistranscribed.

Sheila
Attachments
Leitre Tyredagh Tulla.xlsx
(55.03 KiB) Downloaded 401 times

Rozanne
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Leitire location?

Post by Rozanne » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:30 pm

Thank you so very much, Sheila! The example is perfect for someone like me who is new to this forum and some of these resources. And the example you used is even likely some relation as Donohue is one of my direct ancestors in this area! I will digest this all and hopefully better understand how to research using the maps. Thank you so very much! :P

Rozanne

murf
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Location: Qld Australia

Re: Leitire location?

Post by murf » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:55 am

Sheila that's a nice example of how to squeeze the most out of the various data sources.
The technique of comparing the lineup of households in a particular townland I've found to be a useful tool when comparing Griffith's Valuation to the 1901 census. Often the geography of a townland will influence the route that the census taker will traverse the townland. I had one case where the comparison didn't seem to make sense, until I realised that the 1901 census taker had covered the townland in the opposite direction to Griffiths. When I turned the order upside down there was a much improved household match.
In the census the House and Building Return (Form B1) provides a summary of the household order, as well as additional useful info, such as (probable) next-door neighbours, sub-lessors, etc.

smcarberry
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Re: Leitire location?

Post by smcarberry » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:41 pm

I am coming late to this discussion. However, I might as well add the Tyreda area that is involved. As you can see from placenames starting with "derry," this was once a well-wooded ground.

Sharon Carberry
Tyreda area.JPG
Tyreda area.JPG (225.23 KiB) Viewed 10436 times

Sduddy
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Re: Leitire location?

Post by Sduddy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:53 am

That is a lovely map of the area. Sharon, can you tell me where you got it from please? Is it from the Discovery Series?

The placename “Leitra” may be still in use to this very day. Knockjames National School was the school for this area until the 1960s. When you look at the attendance at that school, you will see that Leitra is used as the address for some of the children, and, for instance, is used as the address of Patrick Harrison, born 1933: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... 3_1960.htm
The Folklore Commission collected folklore in the late 1930s by getting schoolchildren to collect stories from older people in their neighbourhoods. This piece, collected by Bridie Harrison, shows that Leitra was still used as a placename as late as 1938: https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5260434/5 ... rID=526043.

Bridie describes Leitra as lying in the townland of Newgrove, but Newgrove was not an official townland anymore than Leitra was. Newgrove lives on, however, as the name given to the D.E.D of that area: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_ ... l_division.


Sheila

smcarberry
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Re: Leitire location?

Post by smcarberry » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:44 pm

Sheila, yes, that section is from No. 58 map of the Discovery Series. I will now go back into my notes for more on Newgrove, which is an old estate name, if I remember correctly. More to follow, hopefully.

SMC

smcarberry
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Re: Leitire location?

Post by smcarberry » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:03 pm

Weir has something on Newgrove in his book (which I don't have on hand). A Google book, entitled The Landowners of Ireland: An Alphabetical List of the Owners of Estates of 500 Acres..." published 1878 has an entry for Wyndham Browne at "Newgrove, Tulla, Sixmilebridge" in which the latter village is named likely to assist readers in understanding what general area is involved.

Townland outline and info from the site:
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/tulla-up ... -newgrove/

SMC
Townland outline, Newgrove.JPG
Townland outline, Newgrove.JPG (40.55 KiB) Viewed 10412 times
Newgrove's adjacent townlands.JPG
Newgrove's adjacent townlands.JPG (23.38 KiB) Viewed 10412 times
Last edited by smcarberry on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Leitire location?

Post by smcarberry » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:25 am

Too bad the ban on attachments is still in effect. I could show the entire page of archaic placenames as an illustration. Here is the link to an 1816 British publication including a list of alcohol still fines imposed in 1814 in Clare: https://tinyurl.com/yddvtvrb

Since a search must be done with an exact spelling and the issue is usually what in fact was the spelling or name in 1814, I suggest finding entries by using the civil parish name. For Tulla, that will bring up an entry that includes Leitra:

"Teredagh, otherwise Leitra, otherwise Derrynane, otherwise Derrycalif..."

S. Carberry

Rozanne
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Leitire location?

Post by Rozanne » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:16 pm

Sharon, Sheila -- thanks for all the wonderful information!

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