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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:41 am 
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Here attached is my transcription of St. Senan’s parish (Kilrush) baptisms 1827 - 1863: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up

The mother’s surname is often her married name (not her own name), especially during the 1850s.
There will be mistakes – I’m sure I have mixed up Brew, Bran and Breen; Corry, Casey, Carey and Coony; Hallinan and Halloran - always check the original.

It looks as if St. Senan’s parish covered more area in the early years – there are records here for townlands that were later included in nearby Killimer I think.

Now I will make a start on transcribing the marriages 1829 – 1881. I've given myself a month. By the way, I am not in the least possessive of these parish registers - if anyone wants to transcribe the later batch of St. Senan's baptisms, I will be only delighted.

In the meantime, let me know of mistakes. I can easily correct them by editing.

Sheila


Attachments:
St Senan's Baptisms 1827-1863 by father's surname.xlsx [965.4 KiB]
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St Senan's Baptisms 1827-1863 by mother's surname.xlsx [965.33 KiB]
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St Senan's Baptisms 1827-1863.xlsx [946.1 KiB]
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Here is my transcription of St. Senan’s marriages 1829 – 1881: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up

There are no entries from July 1840 to January 1842.
My entry numbers are out by about 30 from those made by the priest – sometimes he skipped a number by mistake.
The early entries usually give the names of the fathers of bride and bridegroom plus other bits of useful information. The marriages often took place at the bride’s father’s house, or at the priest’s, or some other house.
Now I will start on St. Senan’s (Kilrush) baptisms 1863 – 1881 and hope to have it ready at end of June.

Sheila


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St. Senan's Marriages 1829-1881.xlsx [246 KiB]
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St. Senan's Marriages 1829-1881 by groom.xlsx [256.88 KiB]
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St. Senan's Marriages 1829-1881 by bride.xlsx [255.49 KiB]
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:39 am 
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Here is my transcription of St. Senan’s (Kilrush) baptisms 1863 – 1881: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 1/mode/1up

Pender and Prendergast are the same name. Singen is St. John. And it seems that McConoughty is a version of McDonagh.

Sheila


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St. Senan's baptisms 1863-1881 by father's surname.xlsx [346.94 KiB]
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St. Senan's baptisms 1863-1881 by mother's surname.xlsx [345.55 KiB]
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St. Senan's baptisms 1863-1881.xlsx [335.34 KiB]
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Location: Ballina, Killaloe
Great work, Sheila.

My article on parish boundaries explains how and when Kilrush and Killimer parishes were united and then separated again:
http://pwaldron.info/ClareAssociation/KilrushPLU.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:55 am 
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Yes, great work Sheila on all the baptism registers.

Thanks also Paddy for the link that provides a nice explanation on parish boundaries. This reminded me that I have a question on an explanation on baptisms that Sheila provided (excerpt below) on the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree thread. While this relates to Tulla parish and not Kilrush parish, it makes more sense to ask here as my question applies to any parish that contains more than one church:
Quote:
I was looking for a possible explanation for the lack of suitable baptisms [in the Tulla baptism register], and looked at this 1842 map, http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,552888,684419,7,7, and it occurred to me that it maybe it was more convenient to go east to Feakle chapel than to go down to Tulla. One set of my relatives, who were living a bit closer to the chapel in the next parish, went there for their baptisms, so it’s not unheard of – also that’s where the mother’s relatives lived. The records for Feakle don’t begin until 1860, though, so we have no way of knowing if this is what happened here.

As Paddy mentioned: "As new Catholic churches were built after the end of the Penal Laws and the introduction of Catholic Emancipation in 1829, usually more than one church per parish, it often made sense to redraw parish borders so that people lived in the same parish as their most convenient church"

See attached screenprint of the northern section of Tulla parish from the 1842 map (Tulla is further south and not shown). Wouldn't the McNamara's of Glendree just as likely travel southwest to the Catholic Church at Afflick or southeast to the Catholic Church at Drumcharley? Both of these churches are closer to Glendree than either Tulla or Feakle.

Assuming it was possible to have a baptism at the churches at Afflick and Drumcharley, does the Tulla baptism register reflect all three churches? Curious about the process flow. Did the local priest at the two smaller churches just make notes on a scrappy bit of paper, then at some point transfer the records to the official baptism register at the larger parish church?

Seems like even when you find a parish baptism record, that when there are multiple churches in one parish, that it is difficult to really know what physical church a child was baptized in.

Also, I am assuming that in the mid 19th century baptisms were typically performed at the church, is this accurate? Or would priests also perform baptisms at someone's home?

Appreciate any thoughts!


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1842 Map Glendree closest Catholic Church or Chapel.jpg
1842 Map Glendree closest Catholic Church or Chapel.jpg [ 171.96 KiB | Viewed 819 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:24 am 
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Hi Paddy and Hi Jim

Paddy, thank you for posting that carefully researched and enlightening article on the Catholic parish boundaries, which shows how they could change and evolve over time. I have tended to confine searching for baptisms to the Catholic parish that corresponds to the name of the civil parish, but not any more.

Jim, this reply pertains also to two other threads (1) Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara of Glandree: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6965 and (2) News items on Mealy/O’Malley of Tulla Parish:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6907

You ask if the priest performed baptisms at someones home, and I believe that he did - see, for instance, my preamble to my transcription of the Kilmurry McMahon baptisms: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6978&p=12068&hilit=international+women%27s+day#p12068
Bearing in mind that you needed ink to write anything in those days, I doubt that the priest noted any details at a baptism in the home. And, with our climate, he was probably soaked wet by the time he got back (and hungry too), so writing notes was way down the list.
I remember that, when I was doing the Tulla baptisms, I had the distinct feeling that one priest in particular did not love record keeping. I sympathised with him wholeheartedly because record-keeping was the part of my job that I hated – I was always thinking that it was hard enough to do the job without writing about it as well. I think the priest did include baptisms in the outlying churches in that Tulla register – the scatter of townlands mentioned in the register indicate that.

I’ve been reading an article, ‘The Old Girl’ in Tulla Reaching Out 2016, by Christine Loundes, a descendant of Catherine O’Malley, who was born in Tulla in 1872 to John Mealy/O’Malley and Ellen O’Brien. Loundes gives the names of Catherine’s siblings: Thomas b. 1860, Michael b. 1861, Bridget b. 1865, Ellen b. 1869, John b. 1875. But the Tulla baptisms show only Catherine, Ellen and John. The first three are not there. This is a case, I believe, of where the first three baptisms took place in another parish, or were simply not recorded in the Tulla register.

I believe there were omissions in even the most carefully kept registers: in the subject of this thread, the St. Senan’s (Kilrush) register, there are at least three occasions (I wish I had noted them) when it is clear that some early 20th century priest squeezed in a baptism, only when a request arrived for a letter of freedom.

Sheila


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Re. the onerous task of record keeping it was my understanding that one of the main reasons why parish priests kept baptism records was to show, when the bishop came by, that he - the priest - was pulling his weight in the parish by co-opting his required number of souls. This explains, so I was told, why register books for certain periods are missing in some parishes. Once they had fulfilled their purpose they were at risk of being used for lighting fires.

I can't prove any of this, of course, but - given the way humans are driven by management objectives - it sounds plausible.

Paddy C


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:04 am 
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Here is my transcription of page 5 (online) of Tulla parish marriage register, Jan. 1819 (which I should have included in my transcription of the marriages):

Habeat Parochus librum, in quo conjugum et testium nomina diemque et locum contracti matrimonii describat quem diligenter apud se custodiat – Concil Trent: Session 24 de Reformation Matrimonium Catholicum(?).

In order to prevent the inconvenience arising from not having marriage registry regularly kept in every parish, we hereby oblige our clergy on pain of suspension to write down the names and residences of the parties married as well as the witnesses in a book to be kept exclusively for that purpose. – 6th resolution of Munster Bishops in Cork 18(?).

In order to preserve the evidence of marriages, and make the proof thereof more easy(?) and certain it is enacted that all marriages shall be celebrated in the parish of two or more witnesses besides the clergyman and immediately after such celebration an entry thereof shall be made in the registry. – Statute 26: George II. Chap 33. Section 15. Commonly called the Marriage Act. (end of transcription)

So there seems to have been both a church rule from the time of the council of Trent (1545 – 1563) and a civil law from the time of George II obliging clergy to record marriages. But I suspect that, as with many laws, there was little or no checking to see if they were being adhered to.

Sheila


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:05 am 
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Thanks Sheila and Paddy for your feedback. I often make the mistake of viewing early 19th century Irish religious customs through a "stained glass" filter.

I appreciate that the baptism records may not be complete and there could be many reasons why the records of some parishes did not survive. What I found confusing was what the surviving parish baptism records represented. As an example, I assumed incorrectly that the Tulla baptism records were the baptisms that took place at the Catholic Church in Tulla. Sheila, when you commented that the McNamara families of Glandree may have gone to the Catholic Church at Feakle as it was closer than the Catholic Church at Tulla, it confirmed my incorrect view. The fact that the Tulla (and other parish) baptism records reflect baptisms within the physical parish boundaries, and not at a single Catholic Church is a new revelation. For those individuals recorded on the Tulla baptism records as living in Glandree, the baptisms could have taken place at Saints Peter & Paul at Tulla or the closer churches of St. James at Knockjames or at Immaculate Conception at Drumcharley or perhaps even at their homes. From the baptism record, there is really no way of telling where the baptisms took place.

And still a little confused about how the parish baptism and marriage records were completed. Do the smaller churches at Knockjames and Drumcharley (or smaller churches in other parishes) have their own record books maintained by the local priest? And then they are all consolidated into one parish book? Not terribly important to get the answers to these questions!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:44 am 
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Hi Jim

I think there was just one register for each Catholic parish, and that baptisms performed in the lesser chapels were included in the register.
When I look at the baptisms for the parish of Ruan-Dysart, I can see that there was just one register, and that one priest wrote “Ruan” for the baptisms performed in Ruan, and “Dysert” for those performed in Dysert, but I think this is the only instance of that system of recording.
In my posting on the baptisms for Newmarket on Fergus, I’ve written, ‘Entries are not always in order of date. It looks as if the curate chipped in with his baptisms every now and then. So when you are looking for the original of a record, look over the whole of the page’.
In my posting on baptisms for Doora-Kilraghtis, I’ve written, ‘The dates are higgledy-piggledy in parts of this register’. I think this might be a case of a priest entering a list, all at once, of baptisms performed in Doora chapel, for instance.

As to bringing children to be baptised in another parish: baptisms were a large part of the income of a priest, and I suspect that the priest did not take kindly to people bringing their children to be baptised in another parish. There may have been some quid pro quo arrangement between priests - I can’t say. There are a couple of notes in the first Rath-Kilnaboy register, for instance, which show that baptisms outside the parish did not go unnoticed: the entry on 23.03.1821 of the baptism of Patrick Considine, son of Donatus (Donagh?) Considine and Honor Guilligan, has a note saying ‘de cura Rev. David Kenny’ (but does this mean that recompense made to Rev. Kenny?), and then the entry on 17.08.1829 of the baptism of Mary Houlahan, daughter of Patrick Houlahan and Margaret Hogan of Shesiv, Rath, has a note saying ‘baptised by Joannes Carrigan’ (did Rev. Carrigan return the offering (payment) to Kilnaboy?).

I suspect that the priest guarded his source of income quite carefully and that, if a child was given lay baptism in the home (conditional baptism), it was expected would later be taken to the church for the full rites and an offering made then – otherwise there would be nothing but lay baptisms and a much reduced income for the priest.

Some parishes were ‘richer’ that other parishes. Every few years, priests were tranferred to new parishes within the diocese and, in this way, were either promoted or demoted. These words seem very secular, but I remember that the list of transfers was always published in the Clare Champion and I remember that it was read with great interest and was interpreted as a list of rewards and punishments.

Sheila


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