Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:42 am
Hi Sharon,
Thanks a lot for bringing up in another thread the probate of the will of Andrew McNamara of Laharden who left his brother Timothy the proceeds of his bank account in San Francisco.
Hi Sheila,
Yes, at one time the civil death records for the surname “McNamara” was not equivalent to “MacNamara”. Birth and marriage records were okay. Years back I sent an email to the irishgenealogy website (not NLI as incorrectly referenced previously) to fix this issue. As I recall their response was that I should use the question mark variable in my search. They may have been a bit slow to understand the issue, but at the end of the day (or month or year) it was finally fixed.
Thank you for sharing your additional research in the Mack civil records. Regarding the “MNAMARA” and “MMAHON” transcriptions, perhaps I didn’t make the situation very clear. The civil records in 1886 and 1892 are actually “McNamara”, and not “M’Namara”. It is a transcription error. Newspapers frequently type “M’Namara”, not sure why, but it is what it is and the newspaper transcriptions match. In the civil records, the Irish never spell “McNamara” as “M’Namara” in handwriting. As a test, if you were to search civil death records from 1864 to 1973 for “MNAMARA”, you would get 114 results throughout Ireland, all in the years 1886 and 1892. When you view the actual civil death record of one of these 114, it states McNamara, which has been written with an elevated “c” and transcribed as an apostrophe in error. It is a different situation than “McNamara” vs. “MacNamara”. Sure, they could just state that “MNAMARA” equals “MCNAMARA”, but it would be cleaner if they properly fixed each entry.
My approach to fix the issue is at first only to provide corrections of “MNAMARA” for County Clare reporting districts. I don’t want to overwhelm the Ministry for Tourism, Cultural Arts et al. Then, maybe a month or two later, correct “MMAHON” for County Clare. Then, MNAMARA for County Limerick. And so on. We can test the progress of the corrections by doing the same MNAMARA search for death records every month end. Will it drop from 114? I would really like to see if they will show initiative and correct all the mistakes on their own from 1886 and 1892, or will it have to be provided to them one by one. Sheila, please take no action that would modify the results of my test (have now submitted corrections for Scariff, Tulla, and Ennis).
This highlights that there are many errors in the transcriptions, which is to be expected. Thus, I am surprised when you can’t find a civil record in your research, the conclusion is frequently “it must not have been reported”. It is more likely to have been incorrectly transcribed. Sheila, one of your prior postings transcribed the long obituary for a Daniel McNamara of Cloonahella townland who died at the age of 96 years on 1 January 1872. Can you find the civil death record or shall we conclude that it went unrecorded?
http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=7180
And thanks also for pointing out Sharon’s discovery of the Irish will record of Andrew McNamara of Laharden who left his San Francisco bank account to his brother Timothy. Yes, of course, I remember Andrew McNamara of Laharden. And in my defense, if you look back to my posting on 3 July 2020 (page 25), the first sentence states “Thanks for updating the discussion of the McNamara's of Laharden from pages 13 and 19”, this was meant as a polite reminder that we had already researched the McNamara’s of Laharden.
Sheila, I had meant to continue the story of Andrew McNamara back in July 2020, but we became distracted by Sister Ita McNamara of Glandree, which led to the Halpins, the murder of Michael Walsh, and Margaret Walsh Duncan of the Continental Hotel in Atlantic City. Whenever I write “to be continued” at the bottom of a posting the story it ends up being the kiss of death, and the story is inevitably hijacked. Finally, here is the story of Andrew McNamara of Laharden and San Francisco which I meant to tell in the summer of 2020:
When Andrew McNamara died in 1918 at the reported age of 80, his occupation was “gardener”. Not your typical occupation in Ireland.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 425633.pdf
In the 1875 city directory for San Francisco, Andrew McNamara, gardener, was residing at the southeast corner of Folsom and Nineteenth.
In the 1880 SF city directory, he was still a gardener, living at 1209 Broadway. I couldn’t find him in the 1880 census, but if I searched by address he might be there under an unusual transcription of “McNamara”. Andrew doesn’t appear to have become a U.S. citizen so he doesn’t appear on the California voting registration listings (which have excellent detail, such as address, age, where naturalized if foreign born). Andrew McNamara was a gardener for Golden Gate Nursery, at the corner of Folsom and Twentieth streets, one block away from his 1875 address. The nursery was owned by a German born Frederick Bibend. The sale of the nursery would lead to Andrew’s return to Ireland.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/ ... n/1086564/
After Andrew McNamara died in Ireland in 1918, he appears on the Hibernia Bank’s biennial report of unclaimed deposits published in a local newspaper. Andrew McNamara; last known address Golden Gate Nursery, 19th and Folsom streets, S.F.; “Dead”; held $5,652.08 in unclaimed deposits (The Recorder, 6 January 1919). A probate listing in subsequent issues stated that the will of Andrew McNamara was in probate, with a bond of $2,000 (The Recorder, 7 January 1919).
Why would Andrew McNamara of Laharden leave $5,600 in a San Francisco bank when he returned to Ireland in 1895? Very odd. That was a very large amount of money back then; his unclaimed deposit was one of the largest on Hibernia Bank’s long listing. And Andrew also held deposits at a bank in Tulla. Sheila, according to your research, on page 25, the “Rate Book for Kyle D.E.D. also shows Thady McNamara occupying a Tulla Rural District Council House, and it seems he was not keeping up with the rent”. Why were the Tulla Guardians, or I should say his rate paying neighbors in Tulla Union, subsidizing the rent of a district council house for Thady McNamara when Andrew, who I reckon as the elder brother should have been head of household, had loads of money when he returned to Ireland from California? This is fairly low level corruption, but shameful all the same.
Sheila, hopefully the story of Andrew McNamara of San Francisco has helped relieve your fixation with the name of Andrew McNamara, the witness at the 1860 marriage of Mary McNamara, the sister of the missing Civil War soldier Thomas McNamara, and James Madigan (a shoemaker).
Thanks a lot for bringing up in another thread the probate of the will of Andrew McNamara of Laharden who left his brother Timothy the proceeds of his bank account in San Francisco.
Hi Sheila,
Yes, at one time the civil death records for the surname “McNamara” was not equivalent to “MacNamara”. Birth and marriage records were okay. Years back I sent an email to the irishgenealogy website (not NLI as incorrectly referenced previously) to fix this issue. As I recall their response was that I should use the question mark variable in my search. They may have been a bit slow to understand the issue, but at the end of the day (or month or year) it was finally fixed.
Thank you for sharing your additional research in the Mack civil records. Regarding the “MNAMARA” and “MMAHON” transcriptions, perhaps I didn’t make the situation very clear. The civil records in 1886 and 1892 are actually “McNamara”, and not “M’Namara”. It is a transcription error. Newspapers frequently type “M’Namara”, not sure why, but it is what it is and the newspaper transcriptions match. In the civil records, the Irish never spell “McNamara” as “M’Namara” in handwriting. As a test, if you were to search civil death records from 1864 to 1973 for “MNAMARA”, you would get 114 results throughout Ireland, all in the years 1886 and 1892. When you view the actual civil death record of one of these 114, it states McNamara, which has been written with an elevated “c” and transcribed as an apostrophe in error. It is a different situation than “McNamara” vs. “MacNamara”. Sure, they could just state that “MNAMARA” equals “MCNAMARA”, but it would be cleaner if they properly fixed each entry.
My approach to fix the issue is at first only to provide corrections of “MNAMARA” for County Clare reporting districts. I don’t want to overwhelm the Ministry for Tourism, Cultural Arts et al. Then, maybe a month or two later, correct “MMAHON” for County Clare. Then, MNAMARA for County Limerick. And so on. We can test the progress of the corrections by doing the same MNAMARA search for death records every month end. Will it drop from 114? I would really like to see if they will show initiative and correct all the mistakes on their own from 1886 and 1892, or will it have to be provided to them one by one. Sheila, please take no action that would modify the results of my test (have now submitted corrections for Scariff, Tulla, and Ennis).
This highlights that there are many errors in the transcriptions, which is to be expected. Thus, I am surprised when you can’t find a civil record in your research, the conclusion is frequently “it must not have been reported”. It is more likely to have been incorrectly transcribed. Sheila, one of your prior postings transcribed the long obituary for a Daniel McNamara of Cloonahella townland who died at the age of 96 years on 1 January 1872. Can you find the civil death record or shall we conclude that it went unrecorded?
http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=7180
And thanks also for pointing out Sharon’s discovery of the Irish will record of Andrew McNamara of Laharden who left his San Francisco bank account to his brother Timothy. Yes, of course, I remember Andrew McNamara of Laharden. And in my defense, if you look back to my posting on 3 July 2020 (page 25), the first sentence states “Thanks for updating the discussion of the McNamara's of Laharden from pages 13 and 19”, this was meant as a polite reminder that we had already researched the McNamara’s of Laharden.
Sheila, I had meant to continue the story of Andrew McNamara back in July 2020, but we became distracted by Sister Ita McNamara of Glandree, which led to the Halpins, the murder of Michael Walsh, and Margaret Walsh Duncan of the Continental Hotel in Atlantic City. Whenever I write “to be continued” at the bottom of a posting the story it ends up being the kiss of death, and the story is inevitably hijacked. Finally, here is the story of Andrew McNamara of Laharden and San Francisco which I meant to tell in the summer of 2020:
When Andrew McNamara died in 1918 at the reported age of 80, his occupation was “gardener”. Not your typical occupation in Ireland.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 425633.pdf
In the 1875 city directory for San Francisco, Andrew McNamara, gardener, was residing at the southeast corner of Folsom and Nineteenth.
In the 1880 SF city directory, he was still a gardener, living at 1209 Broadway. I couldn’t find him in the 1880 census, but if I searched by address he might be there under an unusual transcription of “McNamara”. Andrew doesn’t appear to have become a U.S. citizen so he doesn’t appear on the California voting registration listings (which have excellent detail, such as address, age, where naturalized if foreign born). Andrew McNamara was a gardener for Golden Gate Nursery, at the corner of Folsom and Twentieth streets, one block away from his 1875 address. The nursery was owned by a German born Frederick Bibend. The sale of the nursery would lead to Andrew’s return to Ireland.
Andrew McNamara of Laharden must be the Andrew McNamara, age 56, who departed Boston and arrived in Queenstown on the ship Catalonia in August 1895 (per UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960). Andrew McNamara (age 55), occupation agricultural labourer, was living in Laharden at the 1901 census with his widow mother, Bridget McNamara (age 87); his brother Timothy was at the Tulla workhouse in 1901 (temporarily, as sick).FOR SALE—A Nursery established for a number of years. Inquire GOLDEN GATE NURSERY, corner Folsom and Twentieth streets.
The San Francisco Examiner, 26 April 1895
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/ ... n/1086564/
After Andrew McNamara died in Ireland in 1918, he appears on the Hibernia Bank’s biennial report of unclaimed deposits published in a local newspaper. Andrew McNamara; last known address Golden Gate Nursery, 19th and Folsom streets, S.F.; “Dead”; held $5,652.08 in unclaimed deposits (The Recorder, 6 January 1919). A probate listing in subsequent issues stated that the will of Andrew McNamara was in probate, with a bond of $2,000 (The Recorder, 7 January 1919).
Why would Andrew McNamara of Laharden leave $5,600 in a San Francisco bank when he returned to Ireland in 1895? Very odd. That was a very large amount of money back then; his unclaimed deposit was one of the largest on Hibernia Bank’s long listing. And Andrew also held deposits at a bank in Tulla. Sheila, according to your research, on page 25, the “Rate Book for Kyle D.E.D. also shows Thady McNamara occupying a Tulla Rural District Council House, and it seems he was not keeping up with the rent”. Why were the Tulla Guardians, or I should say his rate paying neighbors in Tulla Union, subsidizing the rent of a district council house for Thady McNamara when Andrew, who I reckon as the elder brother should have been head of household, had loads of money when he returned to Ireland from California? This is fairly low level corruption, but shameful all the same.
Sheila, hopefully the story of Andrew McNamara of San Francisco has helped relieve your fixation with the name of Andrew McNamara, the witness at the 1860 marriage of Mary McNamara, the sister of the missing Civil War soldier Thomas McNamara, and James Madigan (a shoemaker).