Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

[Sduddy]

Hi Sharon

I looked at Denis Hanifer in Griffith’s and he is listed as the Lessor for two tenants in the town of Tulla, but I can find no other record for him. There is only one Hanifer in the whole of Ireland according to the 1901 census, and she is living in Tralee, Co. Kerry. In 1911, her surname is given as Hannafin, which is a Co. Kerry name. MacLysaght says that Hannivan and Hanify are “cognate of Hanvey”. I notice that "Haniver" is to be found in Cos. Cork and Kerry, but not very common. MacLysaght says nothing about it, but I think Hanifer may be a variant of Hanniver.

About Mary Heniher who was married to James Linnane, and living in Ballyvana, Inchicronan (Crusheen): I found an application by John Linnane for the old age pension, in which he gives Mary Hencher as his mother and James [Linnane] as his father. His application failed : https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/cocla ... ame_lm.htm

Michael Hogan, a son of the Martin Hogan whose old home was excavated in recent years (see my last post), also applied. He gives his mother as Honor Garvey. But it seems Michael was not born at the time of the 1851 census, so his application failed: https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/cocla ... ame_ek.htm. Michael also married a Garvey: 10 Feb 1880: Marriage of Michael Hogan, Derrycaliff, son of Martin Hogan (deceased) Farmer, to Margaret Garvey, Derryvogh, daughter of John Garvey, Farmer, in Clooney chapel; witnesses: John Garvey, Mary Butler: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 033359.pdf

Sheila

[Sduddy]

The "Hencher" in John Linnane's application for the old age pension is yet another mis-transcription of "Heniher", as this acknowledgment of the application shows: http://censussearchforms.nationalarchiv ... _00252.pdf.
(see link to National Archives records of applications: http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/. Very often it is enough to enter county and parish).
And at last I found a civil record for the Henehers (so fitting that the date is the feast day of the Epiphany): 6 Jan 1875, Tulla Work House: Death of Mary Heneher, widow, aged 70, Pauper: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 238115.pdf.

Jimbo, I looked also at the application made by Julia McNamara from Knockreddan (married name: Moloney) and it was very satisfying to see it laid out on two pages: http://censussearchforms.nationalarchiv ... _00279.pdf
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchiv ... _00280.pdf
Julia does not give her mother's maiden name, but maybe it was Heffernan.

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

Just to say I know that you already provided the link to Julia McNamara's (married name: Molony) application for the old age pension on page 43 of this thread. I thought that, while on the subject of pension applications, it was okay to give it again as an example of what can be viewed.

Sheila

[Jimbo]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for revisiting the 1851 census search forms. I had forgotten, or perhaps never knew, that the purpose of these searches was not out of genealogical interest, but to prove their age to collect an old age pension. Did the applicant, such as Julia McNamara Moloney, apply for an old age pension, and it was the pension office that consulted the public record office to verify her age using the 1851 census? Or did the applicant communicate directly with the public record office? The process flow is not very clear.

With the Patrick McNamara family of Knockreddan, Margaret Heffernan, age 14, was reported to be a "cousin". It would have been easier, I reckon, to figure out the family relationship if she had been a niece. If she was their niece, than I would have agreed with you that Mrs. Anne McNamara, the wife of Patrick McNamara (age 32 in 1851), was perhaps a Heffernan. But since Margaret Heffernan was a cousin, perhaps more likely that Patrick's mother, Margaret/Mary McNamara (age 60 in 1841, age 80 in 1851) was a Heffernan? Or else my prior theory, that Mrs. Catherine Heffernan, who lived with John Clancy in Dromloughera, was a McNamara. While Margaret Heffernan was reported as a "cousin" in 1851, she might well have been a second cousin or first cousin once removed etc.

Sheila, great job in concluding that the "Heuchens" were, in fact, "Henihers". It had nothing to do with an Irish translation of Heuchen, but a simple transcription error. In addition to the several Henihers you've noted, I see that in the Crusheen baptism register of 1860-1880 that a "Mary Heniher" was a sponsor in about five baptisms, and a "John Heniher" in one baptism during this period.

And thank you very much for the link to the report on the archaeolgical excavation of a house in Derryboy, in Derrycaliff, by TVAS Ireland, Ltd (November 2019):

https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/clare ... report.pdf

I found the report very interesting, especially photos of the over-grown dwellings, before and after clearing. However, your recent posting repeated a report finding: "In 1855, Martin Hogan occupied the house that is proposed for test excavation", which led me to revisit some of their conclusions, summarized in their below paragraph:

As seen from the above documents, the inhabitants of Derryboy village immediately before and at the Great Famine of the second half of the 1840s include those from the families of Doogan, Flannigan, Hallinan, Halloran, Hawkins and Maloney [surnames on 1825 Tithes for Derryboi]. As is often widely the case, those families living in a locale at the Famine are completely replaced by incomers. At Derryboy these families include in mid to later 19th century: Hogan, Loughry, Mack (McNamara) and McNamara.

In the historical maps with plots numbers consistent with the 1855 Griffith Valuation report, the townland of Derrycalliff consists of: Plot 1 = Derryboy; Plot 2 = large unnamed plot, possibly Derrycalliff Upper?; Plot 3 = a kiln and mill (small plot); Plot 4 = Derrycalliff Lower; Plot 5 = Derryheena; Plot 6 = small unnamed plot; Plot 7 = Derryvough.

In the 1855 Griffith Valuation, Plot 1, about 91 acres, is shared equally between Martin Hogan and Patrick Loughery with a valuation of £6 and 15 pence. Lessor was James Butler. They both held "Offices and Land", neither were living in Plot 1. Martin Hogan had a House in Plot 2c in Derrycalliff townland. Patrick Loughery lived in Ballinruan townland (Inchicronan Parish) in Plot 10 (86+ acres, valuation of £28), he appears to have been rather wealthy.

It is not clear who, if anyone, lived in Derryboy village in Derrycalliff townland in 1855, in the years immediately following the Great Famine. Patrick Loughery and his descendants never lived there. Thomas Hogan, the son of Martin Hogan, lived there upon his marriage in 1879 to Margaret McNamara and was still living there at the time of the 1901 and 1911 census.

The report comment that "those families living in a locale at the Famine are completely replaced by incomers" is not accurate, the small farmers of Derryboy who left were replaced by cattle and grazing, and not by outsiders.

The evidence to prove this point is to reconstruct the Hogan and McNamara families of Derryboy (again, the Loughry family did not live there). One key source, which was not consulted in creating the excavation study, was the Irish civil records which provide the occupation in their records.

Michael McNamara and Mary Griffy (Griffin) of Derryboy (Derrycalliff townland)

Michael McNamara was a herdsman, a laborer, working for either Martin Hogan or Patrick Loughery. Cattle and grazing had replaced the small farmers of Derryboy.

Michael McNamara and Mary Griffy were reported to have been married for 46 years in the 1911 census, Their marriage appears to have been just prior to 1864 since I could not locate their civil marriage records. Their Catholic marriage was not in Clooney-Quin Parish with records starting 1833. They possibly married in Crusheen Parish whose marriage register starts in 1900.

Michael McNamara (≈1840 - after 1911) and Mary Griffy (≈1840 - after 1911) were the parents of three children, two surviving according to the 1911 census. <Derrycalliff, Tuberbreeda, House 9; House 20> Michael was age 62 in 1901, and 75 in 1911. Mary McNamara was age 60 in 1901, and age 75 in 1911. In both census years, their neighbors were the Thomas Hogan family, known to have lived in what remained of Derryboy village in Derrycalliff.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087157/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370291/

1. Bridget McNamara (1867 - unknown), residence Derrybigh, was baptized in July 1867; sponsors Patt Loughry and Anne Griffy (Quin-Clooney baptisms, 1855-1880), Per the civil birth record, Bridget McNamara was born on "1 August 1867" (to avoid a civil penalty), the residence was Derraboy, and father's occupation was a labourer, mother was "Mary Griffin".

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 275276.pdf

2. Anne McNamara (1870 - unknown), Anne Mack, residence Derrybigh, was baptized on 27 June 1870; sponsors Michael Quinn and Anne Shea (Quin-Clooney baptisms, 1855-1880), Per the civil birth record, Anne McNamara was born on "21 August 1870" (to avoid another civil penalty), the residence was Derraboy, and father's occupation was a labourer, mother was "Mary Griffey".

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 221141.pdf

3. Michael McNamara (1875 - unknown), Michael Mack, residence Derrybigh, was baptized on 5 September 1875; sponsors Michael Keehan and Mary Rogers (Quin-Clooney baptisms, 1855-1880), Per the civil birth record, Michael McNamara was born on "18 October 1875" (to avoid another civil penalty), the residence was Derraboy, and father's occupation was a herdsman, mother was "Mary Griffin".

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 127918.pdf

Could not locate the post-1911 death records for Michael and Mary McNamara to determine if they remained in Derryboy village. The informants on their death record might provide a few clues on what happened to their three children whose whereabouts are a complete mystery. As children of a herdsman/laborer perhaps their marriage prospects in Ireland were not very good and they immigrated to the USA or Australia? Hopefully they sent money home to their parents in Derryboy.

****************

Martin Hogan of Derrycalliff townland (Quin-Clooney Parish)

Martin Hogan of Derrycalliff married Honor Garvey of Derrycalliff on 3 March 1840 at Quin-Clooney Parish; witnesses James Garvey, Margaret Halloran. He was very likely a widower; a Martin Hogan and Margaret Guerin of Derrycalliff were the parents of three children: Mary (1832), Elizabeth (1834), and Catherine (1835) — all born in Derrycalliff.

Martin Hogan and Honor Garvey were the parents of five children: Phardy (1843), Thomas (1844), Anne (1846), Martin (1848), Michael (1854) — all born in Derrycalliff.

Sheila, good research in discovering that Thomas Hogan, "age 30", of Derryboy, son of Martin Hogan, married Margaret McNamara, age 24, of Ahish, in February 1879, in Crusheen Parish (the parish of the bride). Despite the married couple making a home in Derryboy (Clooney-Quin Parish), their first born son was baptized in December 1879 in Crusheen Parish, with a residence noted as "Derrybuoy". Sheila, you've frequently commented that this was common for parents on the border of Crusheen and Clooney-Quin parishes.

While no Hogan was living in Derryboy in the 1825 Tithe Applotments, I reckon they would not be considered outsiders since they were from Derrycalliff townland. Plus, these Hogans appear to have had relations in Derryboy at the time of the 1825 Tithe report.

As mentioned in the appendix of the excavation report, "Fardy Doogan" and Bridget Garvey had a daughter, Mary, baptized in 1846 with a residence of "Derrybigh" (Quin-Clooney baptism register, 1816-1855).

Martin Hogan married Honor Garvey in 1840, as noted above, and their first born son was named "Phardy Hogan". The name "Fardy" is not very common. There must be a family connection between the Bridget Garvey (married to Fardy Doogan) of Derryboy and the Honor Garvey (mother of Phardy Hogan) of Derrycalliff. This family relationship was possibly how the lands transferred from the Doogan family of 1825 Tithes to the Hogan family of 1855 Griffith Valuation. I would not consider the Hogans as "incomers" (aka "outsiders") as the 2019 excavation study had concluded.

A Martin Hogan died in 1865 at the age of 64 (Scariff registration), on-line civil death record not yet available. It would be interesting to see Martin's residence which I reckon will be Derrycalliff, and not Derryboy. One of his sons (Michael, married to Margaret Garvey) remained in Plot 2 of Derrycalliff, and one son (Thomas, married to Margaret McNamara) moved to Plot 1, the "Famine Village" of Derryboy in Derrycalliff townland. The Rate Books would confirm the ownership of the GV plots into the 1920's. It is highly likely that the last resident who left Derryboy village in the 1970's, as noted in the excavation report, was one of the sons of Thomas and Margaret Hogan.

**********************************

Michael Molony of Derraboy (Derraclliff) of1827 Tithes

In the 1911 census for Derrycalliff, following Michael McNamara in House 20, and Thomas Hogan in House 21, was a widow, Bridget Griffy, age 75, living by herself, in House 22:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370293/

On 16 July 1868, parents Patt Griffy and Bridget Moloney of Derrycalliff had their daughter baptized (Quin-Clooney baptism register). Was Bridget Moloney the Bridget Griffy of the 1911 census? Was Mary Moloney Griffy the daughter of Michael Molony of Tithes? Will her death record show a residence of Derryboy? After only a quick look I could not find her death record to test this theory.

**********************
Who had lived at the test excavation site?

"In 1855, Martin Hogan occupied the house that is proposed for test excavation", per the excavation study. As previously stated, Martin Hogan lived in Plot 2 in 1855, and not in Plot 1 (Derryboy), but could the house used for the test excavation have later been inhabited by one of his sons?

Sheila, you viewed the 1911 census and noted that Thomas Hogan, known to have lived in Derryboy, was living in at least a two-bedroom house, which obviously could not have been the one-bedroom house excavated.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001805348/

However, back in the 1901 census, Thomas Hogan was living in a one-bedroom house. Did he move or add-on? Michael McNamara also upgraded from a one-bedroom in 1901 to a two-bedroom in 1911.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489217/

Perhaps the excavation was of the one-bedroom house that Thomas Hogan lived in at the time of the 1901 census? I am not an archeologist, but there should be methods to determine if a house being excavated in 2019 had last been lived during the Great Famine (Michael Hallinan; John Flanagan; Pat Hawkins of Tithes), or more recently in 1911 or later (Michael McNamara; Michael Moloney descendant) or into the 1970's (Hogans).

Sheila, thanks again for sharing the link the TVAS Ireland preliminary excavation report of a dwelling in the abandoned Famine era village of Derryboy. It was very interesting and I hope the excavation continues to other dwellings. While its appendix listed all baptisms and marriages in Derryboy and Derrycalliff, without doing a family reconstruction it is difficult to conclude that there was a complete turnover in residents after the Great Famine. A married daughter or other relative could have inherited the land with a different surname than that reported on the 1825 Tithe Allotments. Plus, the Irish civil records, which reported the occupation of Michael McNamara of Derryboy as a Herdsman, should have been included in the research study. The changes from small farm holdings to grazing and cattle was common after the Famine and, I reckon, should have been a central theme of the report.

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

Your work regarding the house that was excavated is very interesting and I agree with you that the section on Documentary Sources, beginning page 3, would have benefitted by the inclusion of information contained in the civil records, such as those found by you.

The report on the excavation is an interim one – the items found were still under examination and analysis at the time. Hopefully, the results will show what decade the items belong to. I think it is good that they come from the interior of the house. If they came from the exterior, I would classify them as “Chaneys”, i.e. broken pieces of crockery that where swept into the ashes of the open fires, then thrown out with the ashes on the dung heap. Nobody bothered to remove them before spreading the dung. Nowadays, when these pieces are found in the vicinity of old houses, we can see that they are mostly quite modern. But pieces dug up from the interior of a house will provide more specific information, or so I imagine.

Quite rightly, you show that neither Martin Hogan nor Patrick Loughry were living in the plot of land surrounding the village* of Derryboy at the time of Griffith’s Valuation. The map that accompanies Griffith’s Valuation on askaboutireland.ie shows that the houses in Derryboy were inhabited, but one of the problems with Griffith’s Valuation is that the map used to draw the orange outlines of plots was the same map that was made back in the 1840s, or some edition of that map from the same period. The later 25 inch map (the report dates it 1893)** is more telling. When we look at that map, we can see that the little house in question has been vacated***. But when was it vacated? If I were asked to do the research, I would go to the Valuation Office in Abbey Street in Dublin and check the cancellation books. They sometimes tell us when a house has been abandoned – a note in the margin says “house down”. But we must allow that that kind of research may have been unnecessary in this case: a knowledgeable person, maybe the present owner of the land (some forestry is in private ownership), may have been able to say that this was an old dwelling house, longsince abandoned, but still standing in the Hogan farm.

About the classification of houses: I think that a one-room house, of the dimensions described in the report, would have been a fourth-class house. Nobody in Derryboy was living in a fourth class house either in 1901, or in 1911. So we can safely say that the house that was excavated was still unihabited in those years. Pat Flynn, in his article entitled “The Fourth Class House in 1841 and Later” in The Other Clare, Vol. 15 (1991), says that by 1911, out of 20338 houses in Co. Clare, only 140 were considered to be fourth class. He says that in 1841 51% of houses in Clare fell into the fourth class class. By 1851, there was a huge decrease in inhabited fourth class houses - down to 16.5%.

Pat Flynn gives the classification of houses as laid out in Part VI of the General Report on the Census of Ireland for the year 1851:

In the lowest, or fourth class, were comprised all mud cabins having only one room; in the third, a better description of cottage, still built of mud, but varying from two to four rooms and windows; in the second, a good farmhouse, or in towns, a house in a small street, having from five to nine rooms and windows; and in the first, all houses of a better description than the preceding classes

. I’m not sure how closely that classification was adhered to; I think many house with less than five rooms were considered to be 2nd class, unless the loft, or half-loft was considered to be a room. Flynn goes on to say,

While the fourth class house ‘comprised all mud cabins having only one room’, such ‘cabins’ must have varied in their quality from examples made in the most primitive way from courses of sods to reasonably well-constructed tempered clay and stone buildings. As the only category to incorporate one-room houses, this class must also include houses built mainly of stone.

The only example of a fourth-class house that I can find at the moment is this one occupied by Michael Collins and his wife, Mary, owned by Thomas Moroney, in Aughiska Beg, Lurraga DED: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000471794/

* “Village” in Ireland was a group of houses. Only sometimes did a village include a church and school.

** For that map, go to Geohive Map Viewer (and agree to terms of use): https://webapps.geohive.ie/mapviewer/index.html. Click on the icon that looks like a four-paned window, i.e. Basemap Gallery. Then click on MapGenie 25 inch. Enlarge several times.
This map was made over a very long period of about 25 years from 1888 to 1913. But I think 1893 is a probably good date for the work done around Derrycaliff. Looking at Inchicronan Lough, I see that the depth of the water was measured in 1893.
** *Vacated houses are marked, but outlined only – not shaded.

Sheila

Edited 27 Jul 2023 to change dates for the making of the 25 inch map from "1877 to 1913" to "1888 to 1913".

[Sduddy]

Apologies, Jimbo, and to anyone else I misled. I was all wrong about the 4th class houses. It may be the case that, in 1851, all one-room houses fell into the fourth class, but, by 1901, a one-room house was deemed to be in the third class if it had stone walls and 2 windows.
I’ve looked again at Derrycaliff with that in mind and see that, in 1901, there were 7 houses with just one room, but with stone walls and 2 windows each: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489217/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489218/

The main reason the fourth class houses were so classified, in 1901, was because they had only 1 room and no windows.

example 1: House occupied by Michael Healvey, and wife, Mary, O'Brien's Castle (Rathclooney DED): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489205/
example 2: House occupied by Patrick Moran, Drumbaniff (Tuberbreeda DED): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489271/
example 3: House occupied by Norah O’Shea, granddaughter Margaret O’Shea and grandson William Byrnes, Ballyvroughane (Rathclooney DED): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489118/

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

I’ve found a discussion about Derryboy on boards.ie, which shows that someone did some research re Derryboy about 2015: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/205746 ... ular-house. There are some interesting bits of information, including that the population of Derrycaliff increased during the 1841-1851 decade.
The researcher does not seem to have found the McNamara family who lived in Derryboy (as you have shown), but maybe found them later*. I’ve looked for the deaths of Michael McNamara and Mary McNamara née Griffey, but, like you, have found nothing. Whether they had moved to another part of Derrycaliff by 1901, we cannot say. That census shows that Michael and Mary’s house was owned by Michael McNamara, but house No. 22, occupied by Bridget Griffey was also owned by Michael McNamara – could this be the same Michael? The 1911 census shows that the house occupied by the McNamaras was owned by Thomas Keehan and Bridget Griffey’s house was owned by herself. All very puzzling! I looked for a record of the death of Bridget Griffey, but failed to find it.

* I can't recall whether civil records were available online in 2015 - I think not.

Sheila

P.S. Jimbo, when I was reading that discussion on boards.ie, I didn't realise that there was a page 2. There's just one post on that page. It includes this piece "When I met Michael Hogan, he purportely lived in a rather tired cottage which apparently was my Gr Gr Grandfather John Garvey's home in the mid-19th century. The house was also where my Great Grandfather James Garvey was born/raised before migrating to the States". I've looked at records for the Garveys and see that they lived in Derryvough:

Garvey, Derrycaliff - some records of Births, Deaths, Marriages:

2 Feb 1864: Marriage of Fergus Keehan, Farmer, Crusheen, son of Jeremiah Keehan, Farmer, to Margaret Garvey, widow, Derryvaugh, daughter of James Garvey, Farmer, in Clouney chapel; witnesses: David Molony, Anne Hogan: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 270935.pdf

6 Feb 1873, Derrycaliff: Death of Anne Garvey, widow, aged 80; informant: Michael Hogan, Derrycaliff: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 264536.pdf

28 Apr 1892, Derryvaugh: Birth of Mary to John Garvey, Farmer, and Kate Littleton: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 876431.pdf

17 May 1892, Derryvaugh: Death of John Garvey, married, aged 82, Farmer; informant: John Garvy, son of deceased, Derryvaugh: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 718102.pdf

16 Dec 1893, Derryvaugh: Death of Margaret Garvy, widow of a farmer, aged 74: informant: John Garvy, son of deceased, Derryvaugh: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 698192.pdf

17 Aug 1894, Derryvaugh: Birth of Anne to John Garvey, Farmer, and Catherine Littleton:

18 Apr 1897, Derryvough: Birth of John to John Garvy, Farmer, and Catherine Littleton: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 807658.pdf

14 Oct 1904, Derryvough: Death of John Garvey, bachelor, aged 8, son of a farmer; informant: John Garvey, son[?] of deceased, Derryvough: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 577081.pdf

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

You may have noticed among the contributions to the discussion re Derryboy on boards.ie (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/205746 ... ular-house) one from Kildarjohn, posted 10.23 pm, 28 Jul 2015, which states that the askaboutireland map is from about 1900. It’s clear that the map that accompanies Griffith’s Valuation is the same one that was completed between 1840 and 1846 (there were a few editions), so I think Kildarejohn was referring to the date of the superimposing of the orange outlines on that map (to show boundaries of tenements/lots/farms). The date of 1900 was new to me. I had always understood the date to be 1869. I was going on a short explanation by J. H. Andrews, author of A Paper Landscape: The Ordnance Survey in Nineteeth-Century Ireland (1975) p. 268-69:

The results of this measure [the right of purchase by tenants of glebe lands after the disestablishment of the Church of Ireland, which extended in 1870 to all tenants whose claims passed through the land courts] were disappointing: the onus of starting its cumbersome machinery was placed on the tenants, most of whom were too ill-informed to take advantage of it [see note 1]. But it had the effect of alerting the Ordnance Survey to the prospect of being asked for maps of individual farms. With this in mind, Wilkinson supported a proposal from the valuation office that tenement boundaries should be added to the 6-inch maps by lithography instead of by hand. After some argument about expense, two lithographic printing machines were installed in a new office, on Ormonde Quay, Dublin, and in the course of the next few years 25 copies of each 6-inch sheet were taken off with tenement boundaries in orange.
Note 1: This summary is based on E. R. Hooker, Readjustments of agricultural tenure in Ireland (1938).

I am not dismissing the statement by Kildarejohn, of course. It would be a mistake to rely totally on those couple of sentences in A Paper Landscape. Maybe someone will be able to confirm the date as 1900. I know that when Griffith’s Valuation was issued to the public (about 1856) it was not accompanied by any map. What people were interested in was the valuation accorded to their tenement – they already knew where the tenement lay. But, clearly, a map with boundaries marked in orange was issued at some stage. How decisions were arrived at as to which houses (marked in lower-case letters) matched the houses valued at the time of Griffith’s Valuation has always been a mystery to me.

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Well, the lack of correlation between the letters (denoting houses) in Griffith’s Valuation and those on the accompanying map provided by askaboutireland has already been discussed on this forum – as far back as December 2009 – see topic “Griffith’s Valuation maps viewable free at AAI [Ask About Ireland website]”: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=844
I gather from it that the cancellation books at the Valuation Office are only part of the picture. Along with looking at the books, you can request the maps that show the changes made in the books – something I never did. I did not understand that there were maps denoting the changes made to tenancies .
So was the first of these maps made at the same time that the valuations were being made? If so, that map must have been the 6 inch 1840 map and the valuator must have drawn outlines on it and indicated which houses belonged to which tenement. This would seem to be what James R. Reilly is saying in his article “Is Is There More in Griffith’s Valuation than just Names?" : https://leitrim-roscommon.com/GRIFFITH/Griffiths.PDF. That article was flagged by Paddy Casey in March 2008 – see topic “Griffith’s Valuation: interpreting the tables": http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=134.
On page 2, Reilly says:

Ballymount is the first townland listed within the parish of Usk (Figure 1) under the column headed Townlands and Occupiers. This column serves to identify the geographical address of each occupier of a holding within its boundaries. Ballymount consists of seventeen holdings, each distinguished by an arabic number in the column headed No. and Letters of References to Map. In rural areas, the number represents the order in which the valuator listed each holding in his manuscript field book. The lot number does not necessarily signify the proximity of holdings to each other. That can be determined only by examination of the Ordnance Survey map carried by the surveyor as he measured and marked each holding's boundaries on it; the map shows the field book's corresponding numbers and letters. These maps may be available at the Dublin Valuation Office and at the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland, Belfast (PRONI).

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

I’ve been looking again at your last post, and see that you suggest that, in Griffith’s Valuation of Derrycalliff, plot 5 corresponds to the group of houses labelled “Derryheena”. I am beginning to wonder if “Derryheena” is the place usually called Derryhumma. I can find no reference to a Derryheena in the Clooney parish records and have not come across it in the civil records.
As yet, I haven’t found much evidence to support such a theory, but I’ve found a marriage record that shows that John McCallan who is living in Derrycaliff in 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087166/) is most likely John McAllen from Derryhumma who married Anne Tobin in 1899: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 784032.pdf. John’s father was Michael, but maybe his grandfather was John McAllen, one of the tenants of plot 5 in Griffith’s. John’s daughter, Mary, was born in Derryhumma, according to this civil record: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 750232.pdf. I think she is Mary Mc Allin, aged 11, living in Derrycaliff in 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370283/). I think John’s mother, Anne, aged 80 in 1911, may be Hannah Halloran in the Clooney-Quin baptisms 1855-1880.

I'm proceeding with caution.

Sheila

P.S. Some more evidence, I think, that “Derryheena” is Derryhumma. John Cusack is one of the tenants in plot 5, and this Cusack family, Derrycaliff, may be his descendants:

Cusack family, Derrycaliff, in 1901 census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087165/
Cusack family, Derrycalliff, in 1911 census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370284/

7 Dec 1892, Derryhumma: Birth of Martin to Edward Cusack, Farmer, and Bridget Murphy: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 866507.pdf

23 Jun 1888, Derryhumma: Birth of Catherine to Ned Cusack, Farmer, and Bridget Murphy: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 928021.pdf

1 Feb 1886: Marriage of Edmond Cusack, Widower, Farmer, Derryhumma, son of John Cusack, living, Farmer, to Bridget Mruphy, Derrycranna, daughter of Michael Murphy, living, Farmer, in Clooney Chapel; witnesses: Michael McAllen, Anne Murphy: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 950363.pdf

P.P.S. Some further evidence: There are two Hinchy tenants in plot 5. These Hinchys may be descendants:
Hinchy family, Derrycalliff, in 1901 census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087168/

Hinchy family, Derrycalliff, in 1911 census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370281/

28 Nov 1930, Derryhumma: Death of Annie Hinchey, Spinster, aged 75; informant: Mary Hinchey, niece, Derryhumma: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 328799.pdf

We are left with Daniel McNamara, the other tenant in plot 5. I found this death record for a Daniel McNamara, giving Derryhumma as the address, but no evidence that the townland is Derrycalliff. I failed to find a record for Anne McNamara, the daughter-in-law who reported his death.
28 May 1894, Derryhumma: Death of Daniel McNamara, Widower, aged 86, Farmer; informant: Anne McNamara, daughter-in-law of deceased, Derryhumma: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 692559.pdf.

[Jimbo]

Hi Sheila,

Yes, I agree with you that the Griffith Valuation for Derrycalliff townland, Plot 5, which on the corresponding map states "Derryheena" would later be called "Derryhumma". I see back in February 2023, on the thread "Location of Cloonan, birthplace of Daniel McAllen" that you thought perhaps it was located in Derryvett townland; which I'm sure you now agree is unlikely.

http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... de48573c82

The Ireland Dog License Registrations, 1810-1926, available on the ancestry website, provide further evidence. For the dog license book of 30 March 1875, John Cusack (#170), John McAllen (#171), and Daniel McNamara (#172), each have the residence of "Derryhumma" and own a sheepdog. At least in 1875, they appear to be shepherds and not cattlemen or farmers.

On the same dog license book of 30 March 1875, Michael McNamara, #320, residence Derryboy, owned a yellow female "cur" dog. I believe the cur breed was used for cattle, but could be mistaken. Michael Mack or McNamara reported a residence of Derryboy from 1874 to 1876, always with a yellow or brown cur dog. In later years, he would report his residence as Derrycaliff in the dog register, most likely as there was not much left of the old village of Derryboy, so he used the townland name. While the Ireland Dog Licence Registers are from 1810-1926, this year range is not be accurate for all court houses. The Crusheen court house maintained the register used by the residents of Derrycaliff townland only goes until 1911. So there were no additional clues for what happened to Michael McNamara of Derryboy after the 1911 census, since he may well have continued obtaining a license many years later.

While the Irish dog registers can be searched by specific residence, such as Derryboy or Derrycaliff, it is a real pity that the Irish civil records (birth, marriage, death) can only be searched by registration district, and not townland or place of residence. Especially when searching for common names such as Michael McNamara of Derryboy.

Searching the dog registers specific to "Derryboy", Tom Hogan, registered a male white cur dog in the 1881 dog license register; the only year he used the Derryboy as a residence. In other years, Thomas Hogan used the residence of his townland, Derrycaliff, such as in 1878, when he registered a male, black & white cur dog (most likely the same dog, I reckon, as in 1881 just with more descriptive coloring).

Also in 1875, William Stapleton, Esq, of Crusheen, registered three dogs. Col. A. Butler of Ballyline registered twenty fox hounds and eight other various breeds.

I also looked for the three children of Michael McNamara and Mary Griffey of Derryboy in the school registers of Crusheen National School, Ballinruan National School and Drumbaniffe National School. The residence of the pupils and year of entrance are included in these registers, but could not find the McNamara children of Derryboy or Derrycaliff (there were other students from Derrycaliff and Derryvett enrolled at Drumbaniffe).

On April 1, 1877, an Anne McNamara enrolled at Drumbaniffe School, age 6, but she was from Rathclooney townland. Most likely she was the daughter of Daniel McNamara (1819 - 1882) and Anne McNamara (1836 - 1915) of Rathclooney, born in 1869 (see page 45 for family tree).

Ballinruan National School had a Michael McNamara, age 12, enroll in 1887, but no distinguishing residence was reported. Perhaps the children of Michael McNamara's of Derryboy, a laborer, could not afford an education for their children? I suspect that when the three missing McNamara children of Derryboy, born between 1867and 1875, were of school age that education was not compulsory for children in Ireland.

Sheila, my previous posting stated that for the three McNamara children of Derryboy their marriage prospects in Ireland were perhaps not the best as children of a laborer / herdsman, and they likely immigrated. I had forgotten about Mary Anne Griffey, daughter of herdsman James Griffey, of Caheraphuca, Inchicronan, who married Theobald Butler, of Ballyline House. Theobald Butler was the "only surviving son and heir of the late Colonel Augustine Butler, J.P., D.L., lilneal descendant of the distinguished Catholic lawyer, Sir Toby Butler, Bart". This was the same Col. Butler of Ballyline who owned 20 fox hounds in 1875 as noted earlier in this posting. Since this was a "romantic marriage", likely not approved of, poor Theobald had to wait until the death of his father to get married in 1884. Sheila, you had provided lots of details about this couple, including Mrs. Theobald Butler's death announcement / photo, in the thread "Grogan and Quinlivan of Kilrush and Limerick":

http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... 3&start=30

Sheila, thank you very much for providing the link to the discussion on the "boards.ie" website. I had never heard of this webiste and amazed at how many responses the original poster received from numerous posters within a 24 hour period. You mentioned that access to the Irish civil records were not available in 2015, which is true. But the discussion missed that the 1825 Tithe Applotment books include "Derryboy" as a location that was a part of Derrycaliff townland for 1855 Griffith Valuation. But these Tithe records as well as scouring the Clooney-Quin baptism register (without the benefit of your transcriptions, what a pain) for all signs of Derryboy and Derrycaliff were both part of the 2019 excavation report completed by TVAS Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/205746 ... ular-house

By the way, I am fairly certain that the original poster who was seeking information on Ballyboy in 2015 was a member of the archaeological team who led the excavation of the house in the "abandoned famine village" of Derryboy house in 2019. TVAS Ireland, Ltd, Irish Archaelogocal Consultants, are located in "Ahish, Ballinruan, Crusheen", and thus neighbors of Derryboy village.

https://www.tvasireland.ie/

Back to the "boards.ie" discussion and the original question about "is there way to figure out who lived in a particular house" and be more specific that this was a house abandoned during the Great Famine. I reckon that the correct answer would be "you can't". If the excavated house had been truly abandoned prior to Griffith Valuation, how would the later cancellation books help to determine who lived there in the 1840's?

It would be possible to determine who lived in the houses which were not abandoned prior to the Famine or perhaps later moved into. So the cancellation books for Derrycaliff would be interesting. The excavation reported stated that the last resident of Derryboy was in the early 1970's. Very good chance that this was the Martin Hogan, age 90, widower, residence of Derrycalif, Ballinruan, who died in 28 March 1972 at St. Joseph's Hospital, Ennis:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 040189.pdf

Through archaeological work, or perhaps even visually, one should be able to determine where this Martin Hogan, son of Thomas Hogan and Margaret McNamara, of Derryboy (per baptism records) in Derrycaliff townland was living in the 1911 census (and likely through to his death in 1972)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370292/

And it will likely be possible to figure out which ruin belonged to Michael McNamara and Mary Griffy, who appear to have been living in Derryboy in both the 1901 and 1911 census, and perhaps years later. But if there were say three other houses abandoned during the 1840's, how can you determine who lived there? Would the current residents of Derrycaliff have any idea who lived there during the 1840's. The original poster on boards.ie had asked around back in 2015, but there was zero recognition of "Derryboy", let alone who left there in the 1840's.

Possibly if someone had interviewed Martin Hogan of Derrycaliff (and likely Derryboy) prior to his death in 1972, he would have been able to tell stories about the McNamara's of Derryboy, including what happened to the three missing McNamara children. However, Martin Hogan was age 27 in 1911, would he have known anything about the families who abandoned their homes in the 1840's? Unlikely.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370292/

Sheila, the second page of the boards.ie discussion was interesting when a descendant of James Garvey, son of John Garvey and Margaret Cunnair (various spellings), of Derryvogh (Derrycaliff townland) entered the discussion. His great-grandfather, James Garvey, was born in 1854 per Quin-Clooney baptism register, and left for the United States according to this descendant. On a trip to Ireland in 1998, Garvey descendant was lucky enough to have a discussion with Michael Hogan, son of Michael Hogan and Margaret Garvey, of Derryvogh (Derrycaliff townland), who was age 12 in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087154/

Sounds like the Garvey descendant had a nice chat in 1998 with Michael Hogan over a few shots of whiskey, but would Michael Hogan have told his American cousin the entire family history? Would Michael have mentioned the tragic murder in 1910 of his uncle, John Garvey, brother of the James Garvey who left for America. Would Michael Hogan have told his American cousin that his own family home suffered an incendiary attack, just one year later in 1911?

Co. Clare Mystery

A report, says the Press Association, reached Ennis yesterday afternoon that a farmer named Garvey had been found dead with gunshot wounds in his body on the road at Derrycaliff, North-East Clare, yesterday. Garvey had been at Gort on Tuesday selling turf, and his turf had been maliciously burned about three weeks ago. It was believed he was a victim of an accident until the gunshot wounds were discovered.

Irish News and Belfast Morning News, Thursday, 10 November 1910

FARMER'S SHOCKING DEATH.
DISTRESSING DETAILS.
(From our Correspondent)
Ennis, Friday Night

At Caher, a remote spot in the hills of North Clare, about three miles from Ballinruan, and about fifteen from Ennis, Mr. John Frost, Coroner for North Clare, held an inquest on the remains of a farmer named John Garvey, who had been found dead by the side of the road on Tuesday evening. At first it was the general impression in the locality that the unfortunate man was the victim of a runaway accident, but the gruesome details disclosed at the inquiry established beyond doubt that a most foul and determined murder had been committed. For two or three years past this district of Caher and Derrycaliff has been a scene of a number of minor outrages, for some of these there being no apparent possible motive, and in this latest and gravest one of deliberate murder, inquiries made in many directions fail to elicit any tangible clue to a motive or cause. Owing to these frequent occurrences, which involved a heavy strain on already over-burdened ratepayers, the constabulary authorities, in July last, erected a substantial police post, which was placed in charge of a sergeant and four men. This is within a mile of the scene of the murder, and a few minutes after the warm body of the dead man was found Sergeant Devanny and one of his men were actually going on one of their nightly patrols on the very road.

Garvey, it appears, had left for Gort on Tuesday morning as early as half-past six o'clock with a load of turf, which he disposed of there. On his return, and before had had gone in to his home, he re-filled his car from the turf ricxx (sp?) on the piece of bog in his possession, alongside the public road, and would seem to have been on his way home when the murderous attack was made on him. From the appearance of the poor man's clothing, and the fact that part of his coat, vest, and shirt over the right shoulder at the back were blown away, and the skin beneath was considerably scorched and singed, it is assumed with some confidence that a shot was fired at very close range, and inference is that when the murderer missed his mark he made a frenzied onslaught on the unfortunate man, either with the butt of the gun or a heavy stick . . . The horse was probably frightened by the report of the shot, for it appears to have first backed against the low wall at the roadside and then dashed along the road for some three hundred yards, until it reached the turn into the narrow lane or boreen leading to the village of Derryvough, in which the deceased lived. Half way down the line it was capsized, and the neighbours coming up at once released it. A search was then made for the owner, when the shocking discovery was made of his body lying in a pool of blood . . . [too gory]. It was at first thought that he had been killed by the runaway, but a subsequent examination of the body by the police caused strong suspicion of foul play, and the authorities and Coroner were communicated with.

Garvey was about 50 years, married, with three children, varying in age from 9 to 21, the oldest being a girl, who was actually the first to see father's body.

Cork Weekly Examiner, Saturday, 19 November 1910

The murdered John Garvey of Derryvough, "about 50 years", must be the youngest son of John Garvey and Margaret Cunnain (Connors per this one baptism entry) of Derryvough, baptized on 17 June 1859 (Quin-Clooney baptisms, 1855-1880). He was reported as age 44 in the 1901 census, along with his wife and three children:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... f/1087160/

Other newspaper accounts of the inquest included witness testimony, including a mysterious,

Patrick McNamara said that Garvey was dead when he arrived on the scene and there was a lot of blood about the place. They then told the police.

Larne Times, Saturday, 19 November 1910

This Patrick McNamara, was reported as a resident of Derrycaliff townland in the Crusheen courthouse dog license register for the years ending March: 1891, 1910, and 1911. Patrick McNamara, of Derrycaliff, was also a defendant in the Crusheen petty sessions with being drunk on the public road at Ballinruan on 17 December 1900. However, mysteriously, this Patrick McNamara cannot be found living in Derrycaliff in either the 1901 or 1911 census. Sheila, he might possibly be the son of the Daniel McNamara you recently identified as living in Derryhumma (Derrycaliff), but I'm not sure and need to discover further evidence in the civil records to test this theory.

ACCUSED DISCHARGED.
(FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT)
ENNIS, Wednesday.

The young man named James Keehan, charged with the murder of John Garvey at Derrycaliff, North Clare, on November 8th, was brought up again before Mr. Geo. M'Elroy, R.M., at the constabulary barracks here, and the Crown not producing any further evidence, he was discharged.

Dublin Daily Express, Thursday, 1 December 1910

ECHO OF MURDER CASE.

Catherine [Littleton] Garvey, administratix of John Garvey, dead, claimed £5 10s. for the burning of turf on October 14th or 15th [of 1910].

Mr. R.H. Cullinan, B.L., (instructed by Mr. F.F. Cullinan) appeared for the appellant. He stated that a month after the burning John Garvey was found dead on the road-side with his head broken in by a gun. He did not think malice would be seriously contested.

His Honor gave a decree of £5, and £1 expenses.

Dublin Daily Express, Monday, 24 April 1911

STARTLING SERIES OF CRIMES.

The latest of an extraordinary series of incendiary fires in the Cahir district of North Clare took place on Thursday night, 11th inst., when some hay belonging to a man name Hogan (a brother-in-law of the unfortunate man John Garvey so foully murdered last November) and the dwelling-house of a farmer named Guerin were sent of fire. [see Note 1 below] In each case the blaze was discovered before much damage was done and extinguished.

As a result of police inquiries a young man named Michael Tobin, living at Cappamore, Cahir, was arrested on Saturday morning. He was brought up at the County Courthouse, before G. M'Elroy, R.M.

District Inspector Townsend prosecuted, and said that an extraordinary state of affairs existed in the Cahir district which had won it an unhappy notoriety and made it the most remarkable place in Clare. For some time there had been an extraordinary series of incendiary fires, commencing with the burning of haystacks and going on to the burning of hayricks. Last Sunday morning three dwelling houses had been set of fire, and were it not that Sergeant Devany and the local police were so much on the alert the occupants of those houses might have perished, and, instead of investigating cases of arson, there might have had to be inquests of sixteen persons.

The accused was remanded for eight days.

On Friday night there was another case of arson in the district, the outhouse of a man named Culligan being set on fire and considerably damaged. At the last Sessions there were three claims for compensation for malicious burnings for the district, and Judge Bodkin, K.C., characterized the acts as wanton devilry on the part of some "Jack the Burner."

Strabane Weekly News, Saturday, 20 May 1911
(similar reporting in Dublin Daily Express of 15 May 1911)

Note 1: "a man named Hogan" was the household of Michael Hogan married to Margaret Garvey, and thus the brother-in-law of the John Garvey who was murdered in 1910.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370278/

"The farmer named Guerin" must be their neighbors, the Patrick Guerin household; his mother, still living in the 1911 census, was Julia McNamara, daughter of Thomas and Mary McNamara, of Ahish in Caher Townland, Inchincronan (Plot 12d at Griffith Valuation) who married Patrick Guerin, Sr., on 22 February 1869. See McNamara of Ahish family tree on page 32.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370277/

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

Those records of dog licences are a better resource of information than I ever imagined, showing, for instance, that a Patrick McNamara lived in Derryhumma at some point (though not on census night), plus confirming that Derryheena was Derryhumma.
Yes, I realise I was wrong in thinking that Derryhumma is in Derryvet and I intend to go back to fix that mistake. What made me think it was in Derryvet was that there is a wood in Derryvet called Derryhumma. There were seven woods in that townland of Derryvet – all beginning with “Derry”: Derrygoul, Derryhumma, Derrynacahney, Derryvinnaun, Derrybeg, Derryfadda, Derryskeagh. At the time of Griffith’s Valuation they were labelled “[Lot] 3. ABCDEFG” and were owned by the Duchess De Rovigo. They are all still there in the 25 inch map, and, because "Derryheena" is still not amended to "Derryhumma", I was beginning to wonder if the new surveyors bothered to change very much. However, the 25 inch shows a house adjacent to Derryskeagh wood which was not there at the time the 6 inch map was made. Looking at the satellite images, I can see that the woods are still there and some seem to be the old deciduous woods. Clearly those woods did not go the way of many others in Ireland; Frank Mitchell and Michael Ryan, authors of Reading the Irish Landscape (edition 1998), say:

From 1850 on, the process of realigning field boundaries … had gone steadily on …The Land Act of 1881, which brought nearer the transfer from landlord to tenant, had disastrous effects on the attitude of the landlord to his estate; he could no longer see it as something to be husbanded so that it could be passed in tail-male in perpetuity and he decided to turn his estate into money while the going was good. As always timber was turned to a source of cash and many landlords sold their stands of timber to travelling sawmillers …As a footnote we may add that the woods which survived this cutting enjoyed only a brief respite before they vanished in World War I and when that was over, 80,000ha (200,00 acres) of woodland had disappeared and less than half of one per cent of Ireland was covered by forest. (pp 339-40)

About the sheepdogs: they were not confined to sheep. They were just as interested in following cattle and were a feature of most farms. Practically all farms in Clare were mixed farms*, which meant a great variety of activities and the dog included himself/herself at all times. Our sheepdog, Sheppie, considered the new chickens to be part of his care. Some sheepdogs took on the role of guard dog. On the way home from school on Friday afternoons, my job was to bring the Clare Champion to some elderly neighbours – easy-peasy except for passing the dog.
*Mixed Farming: Some cattle, some sheep, pigs and fowl; also a small garden for vegetables, especially cabbage, and maybe a bigger one for potatoes and turnips or mangolds (the latter used as fodder). For six months of the year, some fields (meadows) were set aside for hay (for fodder) and often a field of oats, or barley, or rye. Most farmers also had access to a piece of bog where they saved turf (never called “peat”). This meant that farmers were possessed of a broad range of knowledge and a great many skills, now no longer needed (mostly).

It is strange that you did not find the children of Michael McNamara and Mary Griffy enrolled in Ballinruan school. Did you notice if any children from Derrycaliff were enrolled there? I think Maghera school was too far away, plus addresses are not given. By the way, people did not have to pay for the education of their children at any of these National Schools.

Jimbo, I don’t think the researcher for the archaeological report scoured the Quin-Clooney parish registers. I think my transcription (with my question marks re the marriage of John Hogan on 28.02.1843) was used, and I think it’s good that it is being used.

Good work, Jimbo, finding that Martin Hogan died in 1972, in Ennis. I agree that he is most likely the last person in Derryboy referred to in the archaeological report. This death in Ennis is an example of the growing trend (in late 20th century) of repairing to the hospital, or County Home in Ennis.

I was somewhat surprised that people in Derrycaliff did not seem to know about Derryboy. The questioner may not have asked anyone of a suitable age, or maybe pronounced “Derryboy” too precisely, instead of trying something like “Derrabwee”. Looking at the map, I think Derryboy was approached from Caher townland, whereas Derrycaliff Lower was approached from the Sunnach-to-Ballinruan road. I think there were uplands between both places and I think they were more remote from each other than a map without contours would suggest. The Discovery Series map appended to the archaeological report gives an idea of the terrain. I think it was because of its proximity to Ballinruan chapel (often called Meelick chapel) that some Derryboy people had their children baptised there and therefore included in the Crusheen register (Ballinruan chapel was the second chapel in Crusheen parish; Ballinruan was a kind of “sub-parish” of Crusheen).
But now I see that Derryboy can also be approached from another road off the Sunnach-to-Ballinruan road, which reminds us that Derryboy is quite close to the townland of Cappamore. You failed to find the record of the birth of Mary Griffey, daughter of Patt Griffy and Bridget Moloney who, according to the Quin-Clooney parish register was baptised in 1867, and I also failed to find it. But I found the record of the death, on 14 Apr 1914, of a Bridget Griffey from Cappamore (registered in Ennis): https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 473830.pdf. and I strongly suspect that she is Bridget Griffey, the mother of Mary, and also the Bridget Griffy who was living in Derrycaliff townland in 1911, aged 75: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ff/370293/
Cappamore is in Crusheen registration district, which is in Ennis Union. A Bridget Molony, aged 20, Abbeyview, daughter of James Molony, Labourer, married Patrick Griffy, aged 30, Derrycaliff, Labourer, son of Michael Griffy, Labourer, in Crusheen chapel, on 25 Feb 1867; witnesses: Thomas Hogan, Catherine Nihill: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 223503.pdf. I think it is very likely that Patrick Griffy is a brother of Mary Griffy who was married to Michael McNamara. I failed to find a record of Patrick’s death.

Yes, the Patrick McNamara, who arrived at the place where John Garvey’s body lay, and who appears at the Crusheen Petty Sessions on another occasion, is a mystery. Maybe he is the son of Daniel, who was one of the Plot 5 tenants, and husband of Anne, who reported the death of Daniel in 1894, but I haven’t found a suitable marriage registered (1864-1894) in Tulla, Galway, Ennis, or Scarriff Unions.

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

This post is not a reply to your last post, but, rather, a question about the interpretation of “room” in the 1901 census. Arising from my admission that I had not realised that some houses classified as 3rd class were recorded as having only one room, it has been suggested to me that the kitchen was never considered to be a room, and that one room meant one bedroom, and that some enumerators might themselves be under the impression that one room meant one bedroom. That theory sounds quite plausible to me, but I would like to find something more to support it. I notice that, in referring to Thomas Hogan’s house being in classified as 2nd class in 1911, you mention that his house in 1901 was a one-bedroom house (although recorded as having only one room) – see post above dated Sat Jul 22. This makes me wonder if you have, at some time, come across some information re the interpretation of “room” in that census.
As I’ve mentioned previously, one of the problems with the material in the Schools’ Collection (made in the 1930s) is that we are never told what century the narrator is referring to. This contribution, “Tigthe na Sean-Aimsire” (= Houses in the olden days) describes the building of a house and includes a remark which seems to me to distinguish between "kitchen" and “room”: “There used to be a room and a kitchen in the houses” – see Schools Collection: Boston, Tubber [Kilkeedy]: https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922358/4874012. But when were the olden times that the contributor is referring to? Maybe someone out there can help.
I think "An té a thug an tadhbhar seo dom" ( = the person who gave me this material), Michael Joyce, Fiddaun, Tubber, aged 26, is Michael born to Thomas Joyce and Winifred Mahon on 24 Sept 1911: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 612304.pdf. Michael must have been relating what he had be told by some older person.

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Well, I’ve found that the instruction* issued to the census enumerators regarding the definition of “room” was quite clear: “In counting the number of rooms in a house, each apartment is to be reckoned as one room, the particulars being obtained either by observation, or through the information afforded by the occupants; thus, a cabin, within which there is no partition wall, is to be regarded as a house with one room; if one end of a cabin is partitioned off, and a means of communication maintained by an inner doorway, it is to be considered as a house having two rooms; and if a dwelling is divided by partitions into three portions, it is to be considered as a house having three rooms; and so on”.

I think the enumerator for the Tuberbreeda district (1901) probably understood the definition of “room” and probably abided by it, but I see that he (Constable Connell) did not take very much care with the classification of the houses in some of the townlands in that district. In the townland of Sunnach, he gives the same number under the column headed “rooms” as for the “number of rooms occupied by each family”. He ignores the instructions as to the scoring system for the number of rooms and gives a score of 7 for the number of rooms in Patrick Grady’s house, although no such score exists. And he gives a score of only 1 for the number of rooms in Daniel Ryan’s house, although there are two rooms occupied by the family. And gives a score of 3 for the number of rooms in James Culligan’s house, which, if correct, would mean that there were 5 or 6 rooms in the house: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489304/. Properly speaking, Patrick Grady’s house should be classified as 2nd class, and this the classification it gets in 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001805524/. In the townland of Knockreddan, Constable Connell enters the number of rooms occupied by the family as the score for number of rooms: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489294/. Likewise in Knocknamucky: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489287/. Likewise in Knockloghan: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489280/. Likewise in Cappafean: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489248/.

If we trust that Constable Connell understood the definition of “room”, then the number of one-room houses in Derrycaliff in 1901 (8 houses out of 22) was unusually high. I looked at the district of Rathclooney, which has a total of 70 houses, and found only 5 one-room houses (enumerators: Constable Boyd and Constable Kirby). I looked at the district of Caher, which has a total of 87 houses, and found only 4 one-room houses (enumerator: Constable Reynolds). I looked at the district of Glendree, which has a total of 74 houses, and found only 1 one-room house (enumerator: Constable Benson).

* Census of Ireland 1901; Instructions to Enumeraors: https://international.ipums.org/interna ... e1901a.pdf
For instructions on completing Form B I and Form B 2 – Houses and Buildings Returns – see page 633.

Census of Ireland, 1911. Instructions to Enumerators: https://international.ipums.org/interna ... e1911a.pdf
For instructions on completing Form B I and Form B 2 – Houses and Buildings Returns – see page 588.

Sheila

[Jimbo]

COUNTY OF MOONLIGHTERS.

CLARE'S EVIL RECORD.

Roman Catholic Bishop's Denunciation.

MURDERERS SHELTERED.

"Hideous Picture of Social Life"

REMARKABLE REFERENCES TO RECENT CRIMES

A remarkable and striking address was delivered by the Most Rev. Dr. Fogarty, Roman Catholic Bishop of Killaloe, in Ennis Cathedral yesterday. He referred to the murder of Mrs. O'Mara in East Clare, and in the course of his remarks said—This county has an evil record in the matter of crime, and we are so accustomed to outrages of almost weekly occurrence around us that it is not easy to shock us. But the most hardened conscience in Clare has been shocked and horrified by the awful murder that has been committed in the county. That inhuman and atrocious murder has fixed an ineffaceable disgrace on the name of Clare. A more horrible or brutal crime was never committed in any part of the world. Terrible crimes have been perpetrated by insane lunatics in their frenzy or by people mad with drink, and dreadful deeds have been done in times of revolution and public excitement, but no such consideration exists to alleviate the horror of Mrs. O'Mara's murder. No wonder that it has shocked the entire country, and that we covered our eyes with our hands through a feeling of shame and humiliation when we heard it. One's heart is filled with pity for the honest farmer whose sad lot it was to see his home invaded by a foul murderer through the door which Irish charity kept open, and the mother of his children blown to pieces at his fireside. But what is the use of our resolutions and sympathy if the spirit is allowed to continue which made such a horrid deed possible amongst us? For there is no denying the fact that this brutal murder which covers us with disgrace is the natural outcome of the disgraceful system of intimidation and outrage that has been rampant for a long time in certain districts of this unhappy country, and of the immunity from punishment enjoyed by the wicked and cowardly moonlighter in his deeds of crime, especially in that very locality of Broadford and O'Callaghan Mills, where, in addition to other acts of savagery, they have shot out the eyes of two men [newspaper mistake, should be "horses"] within the last couple of years. When people were ground to dust and were almost driven mad by oppression and injustice, and had no redress or protection within the rule of law, that sort of thing was intelligible, however deplorable. It may have been, but there is not a particle of honourable or public motive to palliate the wanton outrages that are now to it indelible disgrace being committed in certain districts of this county, and which are inspired invariably by the meanest of all motives, private spleen, jealousy, or greed. Not long ago a decent honest man was shot on the road from Corofin to Ennis. I am told that people passed the wounded man by and refused to take him into their car through fear. What right have such people to upbraid the murderer of Mrs. O'Hara with his inhuman cruelty? The horror of the thing is intensified by the fact that not one of these well-known miscreants is brought to justice. The murderers of poor Garvey beside his creel of turf at Ballinruan are said to be known cow houghers. The hay burners, the horse blinders of Ballinruan and the districts of North Corofin are said to be unknown in any other country. For instance, in the United States of America such bold ruffianism would be hunted down or lynched as a public peril, but herein the place I refer to they have a curtain of security thrown around them by the cowardice or perverted moral sense on the part of the community amongst whom they live and operate. The result of it is that the people in the districts I refer to have become completely demoralized, and seem to have lost all grasp of the most elementary principles of Christian morals, and all sense of the sacredness of human life or regard for right and wrong in the sight of God. Human life is not valued at 1½d by some of them. It was only last Thursday night before the country had recovered from the shock of Mrs. O'Mara's murder that right over the mountain an unfortunate postman [Martin O'Loughlin] was shot on the public road between Crusheen and Ballinruan for no other reason apparently than that another fellow wanted his job. It has come to this, that if you differ with one of them for a shilling or refuse to give him way in everything the first thing that comes into his head is to moonlight you or get you moonlighted. With the cunning of a mean and vicious dog he steals behind him in the dark or shoot him in the back or murders a helpless woman or her family or shoots out the eye of a poor horse or cuts the throat of his bullock and spikes his head upon a gate. No wonder that outsiders regard us all as a pack of savages pure and simple, and that our county has become a byword and a shame to the rest of Ireland, for it is to be noted that in no other county in Ireland is this sort of thing carried on now except in Clare and a strip of Connaught bordering on Clare. These acts of barbarity are the work of a few, and are confined to the three districts I have mentioned. But are the decent people of Clare going to submit to this sort of thing as a perpetual scandal and disgrace to them? Surely they have intelligence enough to recognise and realise the curse and paralysing influence that it has brought, and is bringing, upon our country. For the result of all this is that Clare is in many ways the most backward county in Ireland. The rest of Ireland is advancing by leaps and bounds along the road of prosperity. Clare is held up by moonlighters. It is no wonder that the horrid vices of corruption and bribery and perjury and chicanery and dishonesty about labourers' cottages and other work should have made their appearance amongst us, and have usurped the place that natural justice and Christian principle should occupy in the hearts of many of our people. It is a sad and painful thing for anyone who loves and admires the people as I do to have to uncover such a hideous picture of our social life for public gaze; but I would sooner be transported out of life altogether than rule as bishop over a community where the most sacred laws of God were openly disregarded in spite of all my appeals to save them. For what is the use of professing the Christian religion and invoking the sacred name of Jesus Christ, our Saviour, if our life as a community be a disgrace to any religion? I do hope that the murderer of Claremount will be brought to justice. As to the blackguard spirit of intimidation and outrage on which I have said so much, and which I profoundly feel is hamstringing this country in temporal matters and is rapidly demoralising our people in spiritual concerns, I beg and implore the young men of Clare to combine and take this matter in hand, and hunt down the moonlighter wherever he appears like a wolf; and as they value freedom and virtue and the honour of Clare and of Ireland, not to desist until they have exterminated him and his wolfish mixture of cunning and cruelty from our county.

Northern Whig, Tuesday, 19 December 1911

Thirteen months after the murder of the farmer John Garvey, the Rev. Dr. Michael Fogarty, Bishop of Killaloe, in his address at Ennis Cathedral mentioned his murder. Below are details on the other two victims mentioned by Bishop Fogarty who were murdered / shot at:

Joanna O'Mara, married, age 45, farmer's wife [of Patrick O'Meara], died on 7 December 1911 of gunshot wounds, in Claremount, O'Callaghan Mills; certificate received from John Frost, coroner.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 500759.pdf

The Martin MacLoughlin, who was shot (but not killed), was a boarder living in Crusheen Town in the 1911 census, age 35, born in Galway, occupation of postman:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... wn/352308/

Given Bishops Fogarty's comment, referring to the injured Martin McLoughlin, that "people passed the wounded man by and refused to take him into their car through fear" led me to worry about the missing Patrick McNamara of Derrycaliff. Had Patrick McNamara in alerting the police upon finding the deceased John Garvey on 9 November 1910, as well as providing testimony at the inquest, put his own life at risk? Does this explain why Patrick McNamara of Derrycaliff cannot be found in the Irish census taken four months later on Sunday, the 2nd of April of 1911? Had Patrick McNamara been threatened and fled his home at Derrycaliff?

Upon further research, in particular examining the townland maps, I reckon there could be an alternative explanation for the mysterious Patrick McNamara missing from Derrycaliff townland. Just to the east of Derrycaliff townland (plots 5, 6, and 7) is Maghera townland (plot 1). Maghera is a large townland, very elongated running north and south, and to its far north Plot 1 borders Derrycaliff townland and includes the village of "Derryhalla". In the 1855 Griffith Valuation, a Patrick McNamara is leasing Plot 1f, with seven other tenants a total of over 349 acres. Could "Derryhalla" much closer to adjacent to "Derrycaliff" than to the other Maghera plots to the south, been referred to as "Derrycaliff"? Plus, this Patrick McNamara appears to have been originally from Derryhumma (Derrycaliff) and "married in" to a Margaret Butler from "Derryhalla" (Maghera). Both the location of Derryhalla adjacent to Derrycaliff and the origins of Patrick McNamara, Sr., in Derrycaliff, could have led to his son, Patrick McNamara (1876 - after 1923), when reported as a witness at the inquest into the death of John Garvey having been reported as being from Derrycaliff?

This is a plausible theory, but not 100% certain as to its accuracy. Researching the family of Patrick McNamara of Derryhalla (Maghera) has led to Elmira, New York. The Ellen O'Neill Letters, 1855 -1920, donated to the Clare Library by Ann Buckley, include one letter from 18 January 1855 encouraging a cousin to immigrate to Elmira since "all our people and the neighbours that used to live near you to home all the folks that ever lived in Tulla they are here [Elimira] and a great many others besides of the old acquaintances". The McNamara's of Derryhalla, who would immigrate to Elmira, were of a later generation, but may have been following their uncles and aunts who settled in Elmira in the 1850's?

https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/cocla ... etters.htm

Maghera Townland, Clooney Parish, Griffith Valuation Plot 1f, Patrick McNamara; House, offices, and land; shared 349 acres with seven other tenants; valuation £2, 8 shillings.

This Patrick McNamara of Maghera townland may have been on his third marriage at the time of 1855 Griffith Valuation. Originally from Derrycaliff, he appears to have "married in" to Derryhalla (Maghera townland) with his marriage (possibly his second) to Margaret Butler in 1847. Unknown year of death, but without a great search. Possibly, when more post-1864 death records become available, his death record will be discovered.

1.0 Patrick McNamara (≈1844 - 1898), unknown baptism; possibly baptized in Crusheen parish with no surviving baptism records until 1860. Unknown mother, and unknown birth location. Born about 1844 according to death record, and thus born prior to the 1846 marriage of Patrick McNamara of Derryhumma (Derrycaliff townland) and Margaret Butler of Derryhalla (Maghera townland) — see marriage prior to the birth of their son, Thomas, in 1847, much further below.

Patt McNamara of Derryhalla, son of Patt McNamara, and Bridget Guerin, of Derry Calliff, daughter of Patt Guerin (mother was likely Mary Keniry, but unknown baptism) were married on 19 June 1868 at the Catholic chapel at Clooney, by the curate J. Fogarty; witnesses Patt Murphy and Bridget McNamara.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 212464.pdf

Patrick McNamara, of "Derryhallow", married, age 54, farmer, died on 22 June 1898; informant Maggie Mack, daughter. Bridget McNamara, of Maghera, married (should be widow), age 74, farmer's wife, died on 12 November 1914; informant her son, Patrick McNamara of Maghera. <Maghera, Newgrove, House 21; House 15>

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 647422.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 465833.pdf

Patrick McNamara (≈1844 - 1898) and Bridget Guerin (≈1844 - 1914) of Derryhalla (Maghera townland) were the parents of seven children:

............ 1.1 James McNamara (1869 - 1923 in Elmira), residence Derryhalla was baptized on 19 April 1869, sponsors Pat Guerin and Anne McNamara, at Clooney Parish. Per civil birth record, born on "16 May 1869" (to avoid a civil penalty) in "Derrahalla", father Patt McNamara's occupation was "farmer" (Tulla registration).

The first clue of possible immigration to Elmira, New York . . . A "James Mack", born in Ireland, "age 39", was living at 810 South Main Street in Elmira, New York, just around the corner from Mary McNamara McCarthy at 313 Somer Street in the 1920 census (consecutive "visited number" by the census taker). Mrs. James Mack was Irish born Delia McGaley. When Ellen McGaley of Elmira died in 1898, the funeral was from the home of her sister, Mrs. James Mack; one of the pall bearers was a John Mack (second clue).

........................... 1.3.1 John Patrick Mack (age 11 in 1910)
........................... 1.3.2 James Henry Mack (age 9 in 1910)
........................... 1.3.3 Marie Frances Mack (age 3 in 1910)

JAMES MACK.

James Mack of 810 South Main street, was killed Wednesday afternoon at 4 o'clock, at the Willys-Morrow plant. He is survived by two sons, John Patrick and James Henry; a daughter, Marie Frances Mack; a brother, John Mack, and two sisters, Mrs. Mary McCarthy and Mrs. Bridget West. The funeral will be held at the home Saturday.

Star Gazette, Elmira, New York, 10 May 1923

The above obituary excludes his siblings living in Ireland, this was quite common. However, in the same Star Gazette newspaper edition, under the headline "Coroner Decides Accident Causes James Mack's Death", his siblings back in Ireland were included: "The decedent is survived by two sons, John P. and James H. Mack, of this city; one daughter Marie Mack, at home; four sisters, Mrs. Martin McCarthy and Mrs. Walter West of this city, and Misses Anna and Margaret Mack of Ireland; two brothers, John Mack of this city, and Patrick Mack, of Ireland.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158 ... james-mack

............ 1.2 John McNamara (1870 - after 1925), residence Derryhalla was baptized on 29 April 1870, sponsors Michael Hanrahan and Anne McNamara, at Clooney Parish. Per civil birth record, born on "30 May 1870" (to avoid a civil penalty) in "Derrahalla", father Patrick McNamara's occupation was "labourer" (Tulla registration).

"John Mack" was a witness at the 1914 marriage of his sister, Bridget Mack, in Elmira. "John Mack", a railroad car inspector, "age 46", was living in Elmira in the 1920 census with another sister, Mrs. Mary McNamara McCarthy. His reported immigration year was 1896.

In July 27, 1923, John Mack of Elmira applied for a USA passport to go to Ireland to "visit brother and travel" for six months between July 31, 1924 and January 31, 1925. His foreign address would be "Derryhalla, Tulla, P O Tyreda, Co. Clare". He reported his date of birth as 10 April 1872 and that he had become a U.S. citizen in Elmira on 12 July 1904. He later applied for a passport extension for six months from January 31, 1925 to July 31, 1925. Poor quality passport photo (very dark).

Did John McNamara ever return to Derryhalla to visit his brother?

............ 1.3 Mary McNamara (1871 - after 1956 in Elmira), residence Derryhalla was baptized on 10 December 1871, sponsors John McNamara and Joan Markham, at Clooney Parish. Per civil birth record, Mary McNamara was born on "1 September 1872" (to avoid a civil penalty) in "Derryhalla", father Patrick McNamara's occupation was "farmer" (Tulla registration).

Mary Mack, "age 28", a cook, of Elmira, born in Ireland, daughter of "Patrick Mack" and "Bridget Guerin" (transcribed as "Garvin" by ancestry; "Quin" by one descendant) of Ireland, married Martin McCarthy, age 33, a laborer, of Akron, Ohio, born in Ireland, son of John McCarthy and Bridget Vaughan of Ireland, on 15 January 1908, in Elmira, Chemung County, NY.

Married 50 Years Today: Mr. and Mrs. Martin McCarthy of 306 Sulton St. are observing their 50th wedding anniversary today. The couple both natives of Ireland, were married in Elmira's St. Patrick's Church on Jan. 15, 1907. They have a daughter, Miss Mary Helen McCarthy, at home. A son, John P. McCarthy, a former patrolman, is deceased. Mr. McCarthy is a retired Eclipse Plant employee. A family dinner will be held tonight in observation of the occasion. Attending the affair will be Mrs. McCarthy's sister, Mrs. Walter West of Elmira, who the attendant as the wedding 50 years ago.
Star Gazette, Elmira, New York, 15 January 1958

........................... 1.3.1 John P. McCarthy (age 10 in 1920)
........................... 1.3.2 Mary Helen McCarthy (age 7 in 1920)


............ 1.4 Anne McNamara (1875 - after 1923), residence Derryhalla was baptized on 23 April 1875, sponsor Mary Kearney, at Clooney Parish. Per civil birth record, Mary McNamara was born on "10 December 1875" (to avoid a civil penalty) in "Derrahalla", father Patrick McNamara's occupation was "farmer" (Tulla registration).

Whereabouts in 1901 and 1911 are unknown. "Anna Mack" of Ireland was reported as a surviving sister in a newspaper account of the death of Elmira resident James Mack in 1923.

........................... 1.4.1 Kate McNamara (age 8 in 1901; age 18 in 1911), <Maghera, Newgrove, House 21; House 15>

............ 1.5 Patrick McNamara (1876 - after 1923), Patt Mack, residence Derryhalla, was baptized on 5 November 1876, sponsor Honora Halloran, at Clooney Parish. Unknown civil birth record (searched Tulla in 1876 and 1877). <Maghera, Newgrove, House 21; House 15>

Possibly . . . in November 1910, Patrick McNamara, reported as from "Derrycaliff", came upon the deceased John Garvey of Derryvough, and was a witness at the subsequent inquest.

............ 1.6 Bridget McNamara (1878 - 1963), residence Derrihalla, was baptized on 11 August 1878, sponsor Maria Halloran, at Clooney Parish. Per civil birth record, "Bridget Mack" was born on "8 December 1878" (to avoid a civil penalty) in "Derrahollow", father "Patt Mack's" occupation was "farmer" (Tulla registration). <Maghera, Newgrove, House 21; x>

"Mrs. Walter West" was the attendant at the wedding of her elder sister, Mary, in Elmira, on 15 January 1907, as noted in above 50th wedding anniversary news article. So she arrived in the USA sometime between March 1901 (the Irish census) and January 1907. In the 1910 census, Bridget Mack, "age 26", was a live-in cook at a home on 378 W. Church street in Elmira.

MACK - WEST.
Miss Bridget Mack of this city and Walter H. West of Columbia X Roads, were married Wednesday at St. Patrick's church by the Rev. J.J. Bloomer.

They were attended by Miss Catherine McCarthy and John Mack, a brother of the bride.

The bride and bridesmaid were gowned alike both wearing a blue tailored suit with hat to match and both carried white carnations.

After the ceremony a wedding breakfast was served at the home of the bride's parents [in fact, the bride's sister], 306 Sulton street, to the immediate families. They went to Columbia Cross Roads where Mr. West has a farm on which they will reside.

Star Gazette, Elmira, New York, Saturday, 17 January 1914

The New York civil marriage record reported that "Bridget Mack" was "age 27" and the daughter of "Patrick Mack" and "Bridget Gucain" (obviously, Bridget Guerin) when she married Walter H. West on 13 January 1917 in Elimira, Chemung County. In 1920 the West family was living at South Avenue in Elmira:

........................... 1.6.1 Margaret E. West (age 4 in 1920)
........................... 1.6.2 Walter M. West (age 3 in 1920)
........................... 1.6.3 John J. West (age 2 in 1920)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/992 ... idget-west

............ 1.7 Margaret McNamara (age 14 in 1901, age 30 in 1911 - after 1923), <Maghera, Newgrove, House 21; House 15> Unknown civil birth record (only a quick search). Was informant on the 1898 civil death record for her father. Was reported as a sister living in Ireland in the 1923 news account of the death of James Mack of Elmira, New York.


**** Likely second marriage of Patrick McNamara (of Maghera townland 1855 Griffith Valuation) ?

Patt McNamara of Derryhumma (Derrycaliff townland) married Margaret Butler of Derryhalla (Maghera townland) on 9 February 1846 at Quin-Clooney Parish; witnesses John Butler and John McNamara.

2.0 Thomas McNamara (1847 - unknown), baptized on 1 March 1847, residence Derryhumma; sponsor Anne Daffy in Clooney parish baptisms (1816-1855).


**** Possibly, third marriage of Patrick McNamara of Derryhalla (Maghera townland 1855 GV) ?

Unknown marriage of Patrick McNamara and Mary Halloran which is only reflected in Clooney Parish baptism records of three children:

3.0 John McNamara (1851 - unknown), "John Mack" was baptized on 13 March 1851, residence "Derryhalla", mother Mary Halloran; sponsor Catherine Murphy in Clooney parish baptisms (1816-1855).

4.0 Mathew McNamara (1854 - unknown), baptized on 5 May 1854, residence "Derryhalii(?)", mother Mary Halloran; sponsor Ellen Connor in Clooney parish baptisms (1816-1855).

5.0 Timothy McNamara (1854 - unknown), baptized on 5 May 1854, residence "Derryhali(?)", mother Mary Halloran; sponsor John Markaham of "Derryhali(?)"in Clooney parish baptisms (1816-1855).

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Of the seven children of Patrick McNamara (≈1844 - 1898) and Bridget Guerin (≈1844 - 1914) of Derryhalla, four would immigrate to Elmira, New York. It was exponentially easier to trace forward this McNamara family of Derryhalla since the seven McNamara siblings, and the mother's maiden name, are known facts. The Elmira descendants have not been able to trace their McNamara roots back to County Clare and are unlikely ever to be able to so. The NY marriage records, for two McNamara daughters, report their mother's maiden name, but are such a scribble that it would be difficult to make out "Guerin", unless, of course, you knew it was "Guerin". Plus, the Irish born McNamara women lied about their age when marrying in the USA by nearly 10 years, which I reckon was fairly common. The fibbing of ages on marriage and census records are a real challenge for any descendant tracing ancestors back to Ireland to discover their baptism or birth records. Far easier to trace family trees forward.

Their second born son, John McNamara (1870 - after 1925), would in 1923 apply for a USA passport to return to visit his brother in Derryhalla, planned for in 1924, and then extended to 1925. The timing was interesting. His elder brother, James McNamara (1869 - 1923) had recently died in Elmira, when John Mack applied for his passport. Now as the eldest surviving McNamara son was he returning to Ireland to claim the Derryhalla lands as his inherited right? It is a great mystery as I've yet been able to find any evidence that John McNamara of Elmira did return to Ireland; nor have I found his death record in Elmira.

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Sheila, thank you for sharing your memories of sheepdogs when delivering the Clare Champion, and I agree that sheepdogs back in the day would have multiples responsibilities. Out of curiosity, I reviewed the 1875 dog register for Crusheen courthouse, and out of 375 dogs registered, 125 were sheepdogs, exactly one-third. It would be interesting to see how this mix of dog breeds changed over time. Also, one correction regarding dog licenses. 1911 was the last dog register for those obtained at the Crusheen court house, but it appears in later years, dog licenses were obtained at the local post office. At the very end of the Crusheen court house registers, were much smaller registers for 1921 and 1922 for the Crusheen post office (40 dogs each year) with fewer townlands represented.

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Sheila, thank you for sharing your research on the census return descriptions for the number of rooms in a house. When discussing the 2019 archaeological study and I stated "one bedroom house", this was a simple mistake on my part, which prior to your posting I had planned to go back and edit. Given modern usage, it is difficult, for me, to write "one room house" without typing "bedroom". The Derryboy house in the archaeological study was described as a "rectangular stone-walled ruin that has a single room". I take this to mean a combined cooking and sleeping areas (an open floor plan). Your research shows how confusing this could be since in the 1901 and 1911 census years, even if there were two rooms (a separate kitchen and a bedroom), the dwelling would still be reported as a "one room house". Perhaps these smaller single room houses or "cabins" were an indication of poverty and more likely to have been abandoned during the Famine years?