Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

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Jimbo
Posts: 373
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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:05 am

Hi Sheila,

Elizabeth McNamara appears to have converted by 1856 as "Elizabeth M.A. Demerra, wife of John D. Hornbeck" appears transcribed on the Reformed Dutch Church 1856 listing of "Members Received in Communion with the Reformed Dutch Church of Wawarsing". However, I could not find their marriage record or baptism records for their three children in the Reformed Dutch records. John D. Hornbeck was over 40 years old when he married Elizabeth McNamara, who was likely not even 20 years old. Frankly, Sheila, I don't reckon John D. Hornbeck really cared what his neighbors or church elders thought of the situation.

Nicholas Kelly and Catherine Bowles had a daughter "Ally Margaret" baptized at St. Michael's Church in Limerick on 7 October 1837; the sponsors were Denis O'Flaherty and Bridget Sheehan. The priest who performed the ceremony was the Reverend James Synan, a curate. St. Michael's Church is just around a corner from Robert Street where Nicholas Kelly was recorded as a "Iron, Coal, and Culm dealer" in the Triennial's 1840 Limerick City Directory and where he was living in 1845 when he died.

A modern building on Robert Street has a historical marker of a man whose tools might have something to do with Iron. But not sure and the historical sign is not legible using google street view, which for privacy reasons has also blurred the face of the man:
Historical Marker on Robert Street, Limerick (google street view).jpg
Historical Marker on Robert Street, Limerick (google street view).jpg (68.42 KiB) Viewed 2501 times

At the Rathkeale Repeal banquet, the newspaper reported that Nicholas Kelly was wearing the uniform of the '82 Club. Thomas Keneally, in The Great Shame, provides a good description of the '82 Club and its uniform:
Young Ireland wished to create a meeting ground away from the Liberator's 'rough demagoguery.' So the '82 Club was founded, in part as a social group where ideas could be uttered without the rancour that now typified Repeal meetings, and in part as if to create a highly informal officer corps for some coming national resistance. A uniform was devised for members, for in its name the club looked back to the Volunteers of 1782, predominantly Protestant gentleman who had mustered on College Green and successfully demanded an Irish Parliament. Even sober Smith O'Brien wore the '82 Club uniform. He declared in a Kilkenny speech, "I am not sorry that the Government should feel that the dress we wear wants nothing but the sword attached to it to constitute us as officers of the Irish people.'
At the Rathkeale Repeal banquet of the 22nd of October 1845, a ladies gallery had been erected, but sadly Catherine Bowles Kelly was not one of its "fair occupants". From probate records for Nicholas Kelly, it appears that his wife Catherine Bowles had predeceased him, perhaps also explaining why they had just the one daughter.
Nicholas Kelly, late of Robert-street, in the City of Limerick, Merchant:
Provided also, that in case my daughter shall die before attaining the age of twenty three years, or day of marriage, then my will is, that one moiety of all the rest, residue, and remainder of my estate and effects shall go and be paid to and amongst the children of my sister, Letitia Lysaght, share and share alike, and that the other moiety thereof shall be applied to the relief of such charitable institutions of the city of Limerick, and in such share and proportions, as my executors shall, in the exercise of their discretion, think proper. Parliamentary Papers, Volume 42 (1845)
The marriage announcement for Letitia O'Kelly in 1821 provided the name of their father, "Mr. James Lysaght, of Limerick, to Letitia, second daughter of Mr. Patrick O'Kelly. (The Freeman's Journal, 25 July 1821). Nicholas Kelly also had an older sister in 1821 who was not named in his 1845 will.

In the Pigot's 1827 Limerick City Directory, under the category "Ship Chandlers" were three men, including: "Lysaght, James, (and iron monger), Merchants-quay". In the Triennial's 1840 Limerick Directory, Letitia Lysaght was listed as "Importer of Rod and Bar Iron, Merchant's-quay".

The 1855 (or thereabouts) Griffiths Valuation for St. Michael's Parish reported on Robert Street, No. 1, a house and store, leased by Richard J. Scott, with the lessor as "In Chancery for Reps. Nicholas Kelly" with the annual lease of £34.

Ally Margaret Kelly would have been 17 or 18 years old in 1855, and either had to marry or reach 23 years old to inherit her father's fortune. Not sure what happened to Ally Margaret Kelly. Her many Lysaght first cousins, who would have benefitted financially from her early demise, included Letitia Mary (1823), James (1827), Mary (1828), Daniel (1830), Matilda (1833), and Teresa Frances (1834).

In the Tulla Parish baptism records, a Catherine Bowles was a baptism sponsor for Mary McNamara, on 17 December 1825, the parents were "John McNamara" and "Mary McNamara" of Glandree.

Was this Catherine Bowles the mother of Ally Margaret Kelly? There is no record to determine the age of the Catherine Bowles who married Nicholas Kelly. But she married in June 1834, so assuming she was at least 18 when married, she was born prior to 1816. But she was likely a bit older in 1834, and thus perhaps old enough to be a baptism sponsor in 1825.

However, there was another Catherine Bowles in Glandree during this same time period. Catherine Bowles and Michael McMahon had many children baptized between 1825 and 1839. They moved around a lot according to the baptism records, including Glandree, Eyrehill, Kiltanon, Alogha, and Lochan . The baptism sponsors when the McMahons lived at Glandree were Andrew McNamara and Margaret McNamara. In the 1855 Griffiths Valuation, a Michael McMahon was living at House 58 in Glendree. In 1856, according to an Australia ancestry family tree, Michael and Catherine McMahon and several of their children left for New South Wales. Catherine Bowles McMahon died in Burwang NSW in 1860; the death record would indicate she was born about 1807. So this Catherine Bowles was also old enough to be a baptism sponsor for Mary McNamara in 1825. Not sure how this Catherine Bowles was related to the other Bowles family. One daughter Margaret who ended up in Cowra had a son named Ambrose.

Not terribly important which Catherine Bowles was the sponsor, but only that it led me to this baptism record, an important clue in the search for the missing Thomas McNamara. I reckon the parents of Mary McNamara born in 1825 were actually "John McNamara" and "Mary Kelly". The priest made a mistake by not using the maiden name for the mother in the baptism record. The other baptism sponsor was "Laurence Kelly", a likely sibling. There were no other baptism records for parents named John McNamara and Mary McNamara. Priests made many mistakes in the baptism records, and not correctly reporting the mother's maiden name was a common one. Here is the updated John McNamara family tree to reflect this new clue:

John McNamara (1800 ?? - ??) and Mary Kelly (1800 ?? - prior to 1840??) of Glandree:

............ 1.? missing baptism register (March 1822 through August 1825)
............ 1.1 Mary McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 17 December 1825, mother reported as "Mary McNamara", sponsors Laurence Kelly and Catherine Bowles.
............ 1.? missing baptism register (June 1826 through May 1827)
............ 1.2 James McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 22 November 1828, sponsors John McNamara, Anne Cavana.
............ 1.3 John McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 11 July 1830, sponsors Martin O'Dea, Honora Linane.
............ 1.4 Thomas McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 6 May 1832, sponsors John Nunan, Biddy Birmingham. - the missing Civil War soldier of Glandree??
............ 1.5 Bridget McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 24 February 1834, sponsor Bridget Kelly - the 2nd wife of John Hornbeck of Wawarsing NY??
............ 1.6 Johanna McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 8 November 1835, sponsor Cath Roughan. - the 2nd wife of John Hornbeck of Wawarsing NY??

....... POSSIBLE Marriage to Bridget Coffey (as discussed on page eight)

............ 1.7 Mary McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 28 January 1840, sponsor Sally Coffey - married to James Madigan (witness Andrew McNamara), to Barnsley Yorkshire??
............ 1.8 Anne McNamara, no location, baptized August 1843, sponsor Anne Couney.
............ 1.9 Pat McNamara, of Glandree, baptized March 1845, sponsor Bid Lambert.
............ 1.10 Michael McNamara, of Glandree, baptized 8 January 1847, sponsor Mary McMahon.

With the addition of a child born in 1825, I've shifted my estimate of when parents John McNamara and Mary Kelly were born to about 1800. This birth year would be consistent with most of the John McNamara's whose deaths were registered in Tulla between 1864 and 1878, including: a John McNamara died in 1866, aged 68; a John McNamara died in 1868, aged 67; a John McNamara died in 1869, aged 69; a John McNamara died in 1875, aged 80; and a John McNamara died in 1870, aged 92. These records are not yet available online.

Laurence Kelly as a baptism sponsor is an important clue. In 1855 Griffiths Valuation, in Caher (Power) townland in Feakle Civil Parish, there is a Laurence Kelly and Michael Kelly sharing plots 5 through 9. This Laurence Kelly, married to Bridget Hassett, died on 19 August 1885 in Cahir at the age of 53 years old. Thus, too young to be the baptism sponsor in 1825 for Mary McNamara of Glandree. The first born son of Larry Kelly and Bridget Hassett was baptized as "Patrick" in 1852 in Cahir in the Caher Feakle parish records — this Patrick goes missing. A "Laurence" Kelly surfaces in the census records, living in Caharpower, Derrynagittagh and was age 52 in 1901, and more accurately reported as age 58 in 1911, so born about 1852 or 1853. A descendant of this Laurence was searching for his baptism record in Ireland Reaching Out:
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/messag ... ence-kelly

I reckon the baptism record of the "Patrick" in 1852 was actually for "Laurence". Again, priests make many mistakes. Or perhaps his parents named him Patrick Laurence, and decided later to call him Laurence. Under this theory, the father of Laurence Kelly (≈1832 - 1885) would be the same as his first born son, Laurence Kelly. And it was this Laurence Kelly who appeared as a baptism sponsor for Mary McNamara in 1825; Mary Kelly likely being the sister of Laurence.

Under this theory, the marriage of Mary Kelly and John McNamara would have been in her home parish of Caher Feakle, where the marriage records don't start until 1842. This would explain why the marriage record for this couple cannot be located in the Tulla parish records.

If accurate, and further evidence may prove or disprove this theory, Laurence Kelly (≈1832 - 1885) of Cahir was a first cousin of the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

There appear to have been many connections between the McNamara's of Glandree in Tulla Parish with other families in Caher Feakle Parish and Feakle Parish.

Sduddy
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:02 pm

Hi Jim

You have done a power of work there. I agree that J. D. Hoornbeck probably defied convention when he married Elizabeth McNamara.
The Robert Street blacksmith working at his anvil was put there, because it was renowned for its many blacksmiths: https://statues.vanderkrogt.net/town.ph ... merick&p=L The blurring of face by google maps is amusing.
It was interesting to read about the Limerick Catherine Bowles and the Glendree Catherine Bowles. I suspect it was the latter who was sponsor at the baptism in 1825.
I agree that there must have been many connections between Glendree people and those in adjoining townlands in Feakle civil parish. I think it’s quite likely that Mary Kelly, who was married to John McNamara, was connected to the Kelly family in Caher Power. But I think you are taking a leap when you say that, if it is true that Mary Kelly belonged to those Kellys, then Laurence Kelly was a first cousin of the missing Thomas McNamara. I think you are forgetting the number of “ifs” involved, one being “if” Thomas McNamara, born 1832 to John McNamara and Mary Kelly, went to the U.S. and fought in the Civil War, and another being “if” Mary Kelly died and John McNamara then married Bridget Coffey.

Jimbo, I am still holding to my theory that Mary Madigan (née McNamara) wanted to get in touch with her brother Thomas in 1869 in order to tell him of some important family event. And I notice that one of those John McNamara deaths that you list was in 1869. When that record become viewable, it might give his address as Glendree. But I am prepared to find that most of those John McNamaras died in Tulla workhouse, and not at home, and that the records of their deaths will only give the bare minimum of information and will not give their home addresses. Unfortunately, the registrar in Tulla registration district (unlike other registrars) did not, very often, give home addresses for the peole who died in the workhouse there. In other words, I am pessimistic.

Jimbo, I know you think it unlikely that the McNamara family would have emigrated to America, bringing Elizabeth and Thomas with them, while leaving Mary behind, but I think children were often left with relatives and maybe that’s how it was with Mary, and that might explain why there was no McNamara sponsor at the baptisms of her first two children: James in Apr 1861 and Patrick on 24 Jan 1863.

I’ve looked back at the information that Sharon Carberry posted on page 2, and noted the snippet of the 1850 NYC census, showing Ann Walker aged 23 from Ireland, and Honora McNamara aged 60 and Eliza McNamara aged 15, both from Ireland. When I enter Walker in the GenMap I can see that there were Walkers in Tulla at the time of Griffith's, so I think there’s a good possibility that Ann Walker came from Tulla and maybe Honora McNamara and Eliza also. However, if Honora really was aged 60 in 1850, she can’t be the mother of Mary Madigan who was born 1840.

This whole puzzle, as to which family Thomas McNamara belonged to, highlights once again the dearth of records in Ireland. We only know of the existence of a family who lived in Tulla in the early 1800s because of that notice in The Irish American Weekly (1879) - see first post on this thread. It was a repeat of a notice that Sharon had found in The Irishman (1869), and which ended with “American papers please copy” - see page 2 of this thread. I found just a thumbnail of it at https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co. ... man&page=0


Sheila

Jimbo
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:28 am

Hi Sheila,

Thank you for that feedback. I was hoping you might be able to track down information on the blacksmith monument and you didn't disappoint. The Limerick website of monuments is very interesting. The signage below the relief of the blacksmith with his anvil states "Robert Street is renowned for its many blacksmiths who worked here until recent times." Per the Limerick city directory of 1840, there were two iron and coal merchants on Robert Street: Nicholas Kelly and William Newsom. And in 1870, there was an iron and steel merchant named James Hickie & Son. But in neither year were there any blacksmiths on Robert Street. I reckon in 1840 the product flow went from the Lysaghts of Merchant Quay, importers of iron, who sold their product to brother-in-law Nicholas Kelly, an iron merchant of Robert Street, who then sold to the various blacksmiths scattered about Limerick city. So although there appear not to have been any blacksmiths located at Robert Street, perhaps they would have congregated at the iron merchants? Hence the location of the blacksmith monument.

An article "Limerick Iron Foundries 1806 - 1989" by Patrick McDonnell gives an excellent history of iron foundries in Limerick. I especially like the photos of the iron bridge, boundary markers, iron steps etc that can still be seen in Limerick:

https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/f ... onnell.pdf

No mention of the iron merchants of Robert Street. Perhaps by importing iron from England (as likely done by the Lysaghts at Merchant Quay), the local iron foundries could not compete? The bulk of the article relates to the early 19th century period, and this reference to East Clare was very interesting:
There was a large iron making industry in the Sliabh Aughty area of East Clare where extensive native woodlands extended from near Tulla to Portumna. The remains of two blast furnaces can be seen at Whitegate and Raheen, near Tuamgreaney. The hammer works for the Whitegate furnace was located about half a mile away at Meelick. The bog ore used for these furnaces was mined locally. Iron ore was also mined near Askeaton and shipped to Limerick from where it was taken by road to Killaloe and again by boat to the furnace sites. Ore was also imported from England to Limerick and transported in a similar way to the East Clare blast furnaces.(5)

There were up to 160 of these blast furnaces located all over the country and the production of charcoal to fuel these furnaces eventually led to the destruction of the native woodland which were not replanted. As a result furnaces were forced to close because the production of charcoal became too expensive.

Footnote 5: Madden, Gerard, ‘The Ironworks of Sliabh Aughty’, East Clare Heritage Journal No 7, 1997, pp. 48-51.
With regards to the John McNamara family tree, I am somewhat doubtful that Mary Kelly died young, and that John McNamara remarried Bridget Coffee. John McNamara and Mary Kelly could just as well have had another daughter, named her Mary, and she was baptized in the missing Tulla baptism page of May through July 1841. Mary McNamara Madigan of Yorkshire in the British census stated that she was age 29 in 1871, age 40 in 1881, and age 50 in 1891.

Under this theory, John McNamara, the baptism sponsor on 22 November 1828 for James McNamara, the son of John McNamara and Mary Kelly, may have been the John McNamara who married Bridget Coffee.

And if indeed two separate families, the John McNamara and Bridget Coffee family appears to have gone missing similar to several other McNamara families of Glandree, including: Thomas Sheedy McNamara and Margaret Hawkins; Patrick McNamara and Margaret Doyle; and Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara. Finding out what happened to these families would eliminate them from contention to be the parents of the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

The other baptism sponsor on 22 November 1828 for James McNamara was Anne Cavana. At first I thought a very unusual Irish surname, almost Italian sounding, until I realized it was Cavanagh. In Tulla Parish, the Cavanagh surname is very rare. Sally Anne Cavanagh appears as a baptism sponsor three times in the Tulla baptism records between 1828 and 1831, always for a McNamara:
1) 1828, James, son of John McNamara and Mary Kelly, of Glandree, sponsor Anne Cavana.
2) 1830, Michael, son of Patrick McNamara and Margaret Doyle, of Glandree, sponsor Sally Cavanagh.
3) 1831, Miles, son of Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara, of Uggoon, sponsor Sally Cavana.

I reckon Sally Anne was born prior to the start of the Tulla baptism register in 1819 and was a daughter of Martin Cavanagh of Margaret/Anne Butler of Uggoon. They had two sons recorded in the baptism records with a location of Uggoon: John in 1819; and Martin in 1822. The fact that the Cavanagh's were from Uggoon, that Sally Cavanagh was a sponsor for a child of Andrew McNamara of Uggoon, might also indicate that John McNamara and Mary Kelly were neighbors who lived in Glandree close to the border with Uggoon.

Glandree is a very large townland. The baptism sponsors for the other children of John McNamara and Mary Kelly, assuming close neighbors, might also provide some clues as to where the McNamara family was living in Glandree.

Sduddy
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:58 pm

Hi Jimbo,

I think you are probably right in thinking that John McNamara and Mary Kelly, whose address was Glendree, were living close to the townland of Ugoon where the Cavanaghs lived. As you say, Cavanagh is a rare name in Tulla. It is one of those names that is often spelled with a K, but, whether Cavanagh or Kavanagh, the GenMap shows it’s not a common name in Clare. It is much more common in Co. Galway. The death of a Sarah Kavanagh, aged 69, was registered in Tulla in 1868. This might be the Sally Cavanagh who was sponsor for two of the McNamaras.

Those McNamara families, who appear to us researchers to have gone missing from Glendree, may not have disappeared from there so very quickly at all, and some might have been still there when Mary McNamara was married in 1860, and even for years afterwards. We look at Griffith’s Valuation and we don’t see them listed there, but we forget that Griffith’s doesn’t record all the unofficial sub-tenants, and the Herdsmen, and caretakers and gamekeepers and various other servants. It’s only in 1901 that we can say who has disappeared and who has remained. I think some of the McNamara deaths registered between 1864 and 1880 will be from those families, but, as I’ve been saying already, I am doubting that we will be able to decide which death belongs to which family. I am curious about the family of Thomas Sheedy McNamara and Margaret Hawkins – I don’t know why I feel especially interested in them, but maybe it’s because we know they were having children from 1821 right up to 1840, and living all that time in Glendree, but there is no sign of them there in 1901. I should say straightaway that they are not the parents of the missing Thomas McNamara (and his sisters Elizabeth and Mary) – at least it is most unlikely – there’s no Elizabeth among the baptisms and there’s no Mary born about 1840. So when I mention Thomas Sheedy McNamara and Margaret Hawkins I am straying away, as is my custom, from the subject-matter.

Sheila

Jimbo
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:03 am

Hi Sheila,

Thank you for discovering the 1868 death record for Sarah Kavanagh. I see that the irishgenealogy.ie search engine does not recognize "Cavanagh" and "Kavanagh" as the same surname. Since irishgenealogy search results aren't the best for spelling variants, I've often found success using the familysearch website. Their search results are much more generous with common spelling variants, but will only provide you with their index, and not the actual documents. However, using the same spelling from the familysearch index, you can go back to irishgenalogy.ie for the actual documents. This only works for older records since familysearch does not have more recent 20th century records in their index.

Mary McNamara Madigan, the sister (or perhaps half-sister) of the missing Thomas McNamara, after marrying James Madigan at the RC Chapel at Tulla, had their first born child, James "Manigan", baptized in April 1861 while living at Liscullane. The baptism sponsor was Bridget O'Brien. Sheila, you have frequently commented on this Liscullaun connection; here is what you wrote back in January 2019:
Death records show the death, in Tulla Workhouse, in 1884, of Mary Madigan from Liscullane, aged 83, Labourer’s widow. It’s possible that this Mary is the mother of James Madigan. I noted that Griffith’s Valuation also shows a Patrick McNamara, in Liscullaun, leasing a small house to Patrick Hynes (Lot 3c).

So when I saw the marriage of Thomas McNamara to Bridget Halloran, Liscolane, in 1869, in the Tulla marriages, I was curious and sent to G.R.O. for the record and have received it now:
14.11.1869: Thomas MacNamara, Liscolane, Soldier, son of Edward McNamara, married Bridget Halloran, Liscolane, daughter of Patrick Halloran; witnesses: Edmond Slattery, Ellen Carthy. So Thomas was not from Glendree.

Here is what I have found for him:
The Tulla baptisms 1819-1846 show the baptism, in 1838, of Thomas MacNamara* of Edmund MacNamara (Edward was often used for Edmund – both names were shortened to Ned) and Margaret Hanfy, Newgrove; sponsors; James Pepper, Cate Connors. There are two other baptisms for this couple:
Dec. 1841: Stephen of Edmond McNamara and Mary McNamara, Newgrove; sponsor: Bid Willes.
25.??. 1841/42: Bat(?) of Edmond McNamara and Margaret Hanafin; Margaret Loftis(Lillis?).

*This Thomas is No. 9 in your chart on page 1 of this thread (showing all the Thomases who are candidates for the Civil War Veteran).

I see no baptisms for Thomas McNamara and Bridget Halloran. They must have moved to another parish. Or did they emigrate? Death records show the death, in Tulla Workhouse, in 1900, of a Thomas McNamara from Kilgory, O’Callaghan’s Mills, Army Pensioner, aged 76. But he is too old to be the same Thomas.
I responded that perhaps Thomas McNamara was an active soldier, who was permitted to marry Bridget Halloran, and they went off to some colony in the vast British Empire. I also noted a Thomas McNamara on the Tralee District Pension listing of retired soldiers receiving a pension from Tulla as of October 1883:
1) Thomas McNamara, of the 64th Regiment, 4 pounds, 18 shillings, 11 pence. Sheila, this might be the Army Pensioner you discovered who died in Tulla Workhouse in 1900 at the age of 76 who was living at Kilgory, O’Callaghan’s Mills. I could not locate a pension file for a Thomas McNamara of the 64th Regiment. Thomas McNamara is a very common name for an Irish soldier enlisted in a British military unit.
I took a second look and was able to find the discharge papers for Thomas McNamara of the 64th Regiment. It turns out that, in fact, Thomas McNamara of the 64th Regiment did marry Bridget Halloran of Liscollane on 14 November 1869. And it was indeed this same Thomas McNamara of Kilgory who was the army pensioner who died at Tulla Workhouse at the age of 76 years.

Thomas McNamara enlisted at Limerick on 8 May 1849 at the age of 20 years with the 15th Regiment. He was 5 foot 8 inches, fresh complexion, hazel eyes, black hair, and his trade was labourer. Thomas was "born in the parish of Clurin near the town of Callaghan Mills in the County of Clare."

After 269 days with the 15th Regiment, Thomas McNamara was transferred to the 64th Regiment. During his 20+ years of service, he spent 12 years 10 months overseas, including 10 years 7 months in India, and two years 3 months in Malta. His discharge proceedings took place in Malta on 24 May 1869; his final discharge date was 27 July 1869. The character and conduct of Thomas McNamara was noted as "very good". And that he was in possession of five good conduct badges. These good conduct badges not only increased his pay as a private, but added one year of service for his total service pension calculation. Thomas McNamara was in possession of the 1856 Persian Campaign medal and clasp, as well as the Suppression of Bengal Mutiny 1857-1858 medal and clasp.

By "Clurin Parish" as birthplace, I reckon he meant Killuran Parish. In researching the 1855 Griffith Valuation records, most townlands (24) are in Killuran Parish, with Knockdocunna townland in Tulla civil parish, and Kilgorey townland in Kilnoe civil parish. This was a little tricky since the McNamara's lived in Knockdocunna and Kilgorey.

Edmond McNamara (≈1797 — 1883), was a laborer and does not appear on Griffiths Valuation. Edmund McNamara, from Killuran, widower, labourer, 86 years, died at Tulla workhouse on 6 June 1883. Edmond's wife is unknown. However, based upon Mary McNamara Slattery naming her first born daughter, Catherine, there is a good chance that Edmond's wife was named Catherine. The early Tulla death records are not yet available online; the Catherine McNamara who died in 1877 at the age of 78 is very promising to be the wife of Edmond McNamara. They had at least two children:

1.0 Thomas McNamara was born about 1829 according to his British military discharge papers which state that he enrolled with the 15th Regiment at Limerick on 15 May 1849 at the age of 20 years. Upon final discharge on 27 July 1869 he stated that his intent was to live in Tulla, County Clare. His father had very likely already arranged a marriage for him. Thomas McNamara, soldier, of Liscolane, Tulla, son of Edmond McNamara, occupation "none", married Bridget Halloran, daughter of Patrick Halloran, of Liscolane, Tulla, occupation "none", on 12 November 1869 at the RC chapel in Tulla. Witnesses were Ellen Carthy and Edmond Slattery, his brother-in-law. Thomas McNamara and Bridget Halloran had no children. They lived in Knockdoocunna townland which is adjacent to Kilgorey townland. The good conduct noted in his military discharge papers continued in his civilian life, with just one minor slip up. "Thomas McNamara of Knockdoocunna" was fined a few shillings for "allowing a dog, your property, to be at large on the public road at Knockoocunna on 7th January 1898 without being muzzled in contravention of the muzzling of dogs (Ireland) order 1897".

Thomas McNamara, of Kilgorey, married, army pensioner, 76 years, died on 25 April 1900 at Tulla Workhouse. His death record reflects a birth year about 1824, five years older than his military enlistment. However, since the death record was completed by the workhouse warden, I reckon the military record is more accurate. In 1901, the widow Bridget McNamara was living with her mother, Catherine [Kelly] O'Halloran <Knockducunna, East Clare, House 3>, and in 1911 on her own <Knockdoocunna, Killuran 3>. Bridget McNamara, of Kilgorey, widow of a laborer, 80 years, died on 9 November 1919; informant niece, Kate McNamara, present at death, Kilgorey.

2.0 Mary McNamara married Edward Slattery in Tulla Parish on 20 October 1854; witnesses were Michael Tuomy and Bessy O'Brien. No place of residence was provided. We only know that Mary McNamara and Thomas McNamara (1829 - 1900) were siblings because Mary's daughter Catherine Slattery McNamara was identified as the niece of the widow of Thomas McNamara, Bridget Halloran, in 1919. We don't know the age of Mary McNamara, but since she married in 1854, she was most likely the younger sister of Thomas McNamara. Edward Slattery was very likely the Edmond Slattery baptized on 21 March 1821 with parents Edmond Slattery and Margaret Hayes of Liscollane in Tulla Parish records. They had three children:

............ 2.1 Thomas Slattery was baptized on 10 September 1855, residence Liscollane; sponsors Patrick Keefe and Bessie O'Brien.

............ 2.2 Catherine Slattery was baptized on 31 August 1856, residence Kilgory; sponsors Dan Ryan and Mary Cain. Catherine Slattery, servant, O'Callaghan Mills, daughter of Edward Slattery, laborour, married Stephen McNamara, widower, herdsman, Kilgory, son of Patrick McNamara, a carpenter, on 16 November 1885 at the RC chapel of O'Callaghan Mills; witnesses John Barron and Bridget McNamara. Stephen McNamara, herdsman, age 77 years, died on 28 June 1894 at Tulla workhouse. <Knockdoocunna, East Clare/Killuran House 5, House 5>

............ 2.3 Dennis Slattery was baptized on 17 August 1857, residence Liscollane; sponsors Michael Canny and Mary Ryan.

Mary McNamara Slattery appears to have died at a young age. The evidence for this is that when Edward Slattery, labourer, married, of Liscullane, died on 9 June 1899, the informant was his wife Catherine Slattery. Catherine McNamara (age 40, widow) was living with her "mother" Catherine Slattery (age 80, widow) in the 1901 Irish census in House 5 of Knockducunna, East Clare. When Catherine Slattery, of Kilgory, widow of a labourer, 95 years old, died on 6 February 1909, the informant was her step-daughter Kate McNamara. I could not locate the remarriage of Edward Slattery to a Kate in any marriage record in Tulla or neighboring parishes. A Kate Hanrahan of Liscollane married a Slattery on 14 February 1862 in the Tulla Parish which would be perfect. However, the groom was a Michael Slattery of Broadford.

Sheila, the informant Catherine Slattery McNamara on the death records for her aunt Bridget Halloran McNamara as well as her step-mother Catherine (unknown maiden name) Slattery shows how informative the death records can be for proving family relationships. I am equally hopeful that when the Tulla death records become available they will be provide useful clues in the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

When Stephen McNamara married Catherine Slattery in 1885, he was nearly 40 years older than Catherine. She was his third wife. Upon their marriage, Catherine Slattery McNamara had four step-children who were all older than her, the eldest step-son was 14 years her senior. Most of the McNamara families researched during this ongoing search have been from the farming class, so I found the life of Stephen McNamara, a herdsman at Kilgorey, to be quite interesting.

I've saved the results of this research for another day as to not take the focus from Thomas McNamara of the 64th Regiment. Thomas McNamara had no children so I do wonder what happened to his 1856 Persian Campaign and 1857-1858 Suppression of Bengal Mutiny medals? Here is more information on the 64th (2nd Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot and their role in Anglo-Persian War and Indian Rebellion of 1857:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64th_(2nd ... nt_of_Foot

Sheila, of course, this new information on Thomas McNamara of Kilgory means that the Thomas McNamara, son of Edmond McNamara and Margaret Hanafin, of Newgrove, #9 on my initial list of Thomas McNamara's from page 1, is now once again a mystery as to his whereabouts.

edit: Catherine McNamara's step-children were all older than her (not younger).
Last edited by Jimbo on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:47 am

Hi Jimbo,

That is great work – I read it over three times and could find no fault with it and could only admire it. It leaves Thomas McNamara, No. 9 on your list of outsiders (those contenders not from Glendree), firmly in place, despite my attempt in Jan. 2019 to dislodge him.
I had thought, at that time, that there might be a connection between the Patrick McNamara, who was leasing a small plot of land in Liscullaun to Patrick Hynes, and Mary Madigan (nee McNamara), but I think it’s much more likely that the reason Mary was living in Liscolane in 1861 was because some Madigans were living there, maybe in the capacity of servants to a comfortably-off household. So I think Mary and James Madigan had no connection with the soldier, Thomas McNamara, who came in 1869 to live in Liscullane where his sister Mary had married Edmond Slattery. It may be that Mary Slattery had already died by then, of course, but Thomas was an uncle to her children, and I feel sure that a man with an army pension was not considered a burdensome visitor and quite welcome to stay a while. He was married to Bridget Halloran within a few months of his return.

When you look at the information on the townland of Knockdoocunna and go to the Bing satellite view of Knockdoocunna, you see that it lies between Lisculaun and Kilgory. The address, Kilgory, might have been given sometimes, instead of the exact address (Knockdoocunna). Sometimes people gave the address of estate they worked in instead of their home address. When you look at the 1842 map, you notice how close Kilgory house is to Knockdoocunna. Griffith's Valuation shows Maurice O’Connell is the landlord for Knockdoocunna - as well as being landlord for Kilgory - and probably the main employer around there.

I’m looking forward to the history of Stephen McNamara, whose marriage to Catherine Slattery was his third marriage.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:55 pm

Hi Jimbo

I have been looking at the 1901 and 1911 censuses for the townland of Knockducunna and at the buildings forms (Form B). In 1901, one house is owned by Andrew McNamara of Laharden. Andrew is not living there and the house seems to be abandoned. He is living in Laharden, aged 55, with Bridget McNamara, aged 87, who is described as mother (Andrew is described as brother, but I think he must be her son). The house they are living in in Laharden is owned by Timothy McNamara, who must be Andrew’s brother – the 1911 census shows Andrew and Timothy living in there (Lahardaun, Kyle D.E.D), both described as labourers. I strongly suspect that Andrew and his mother and his brother Timothy lived in Knockducunna until shortly before the 1901 census.
I still can't find any baptism records for Andrew, or Timothy, so we will never know who their father was, or the maiden name of Bridget.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:16 am

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for updating the discussion of the McNamara's of Laharden from pages 13 and 19, including the discovery of Andrew McNmara as the "owner" of a small house in Knockducunna townland per the House and Building Return (Form B1) on the 1901 census. I see that for Laharden townland, House 6 where Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara are living, that the "owner" was reported as "Timothy McNamara". So the relationships reported on the 1901 census that Andrew McNamara was a "brother" and Bridget McNamara was a "mother" were in relation to the property owner, who was not reported as living there on 31 March 1901.

Timothy/Thady/Thadeus and, to a much lesser extent, his brother Andrew McNamara are listed 64 different times when searching the Petty Sessions using a keyword "Laharden" from 1886 until 1915. The only McNamara in the Petty Sessions residing in Knockducunna, was the military pensioner Thomas McNamara fined on the 7 January 1898 under a dog muzzling law that had just gone into effect in 1897.

The direction to look for Timothy and Andrew McNamara is the neighboring townland of Derrymore. In the Petty Sessions of 27 July 1893, Winifred Murphy was the complainant against the defendant Timothy McNamara of Larharden stating "You are unlawfully refusing to make up your bounds between your land at Derrymore and complainants land at Laharden."

One thing I don't understand is why the census form states that these McNamara tenants in Laharden and Knockducunna were the "owners". Weren't the McNamara's poor laborers who leased a small house and tiny bit of land? The evidence of this is back in the Petty Sessions. From 8 September 1892, the complainant, the Guardians of Tulla Union, filed a complaint against defendant Timothy McNamara of Larharden stating, "You are a cottier tenant to the complainant of a cottage with land attached at Laharden are in arrears of one clear gale of rent for the space of forty days and to show cause why possession should not be given up to complainants."

Another complainant by the Guardians of Tulla Union against Thady McNamara was made on 3 January 1901. Similar language using the term "cottier tenant" and also stating that the rent was "8 per week". This was just 3 months prior to the 1901 census completed as of 31 March 1901. Timothy McNamara was not living with his mother and brother in House 6 in Laharden because he was a patient at the Tulla Workhouse in Garruragh. Timothy McNamara was reported only by his initials "T.M." and as unmarried, a labourer, and 60 years old. Most importantly his last residence was "Lahardine". T.M. had been in the workhouse just for two months with an "abrasion". I suspect that Timothy McNamara was only there a short while.

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... 4_12_1.htm

I never realized that the Tulla workhouse at Garruragh provided the last residence in the 1901 census. The two Army Pensioners at the workhouse from Tulla and Clooney would be easy to identify. The 61 year old fiddler with the initials "J. G.", I thought for a moment might be "Jack the Tank" until I noticed that he was reported as blind. In the story told as part of the School's Collection by Mary Margaret McInerney of Killawinna, Jack the Tank was definitely not blind.

In the O'Callaghan Mills parish records (thank you Sharon), Matt McNamara and Bridget Purcell were the parents of four children, all born in Ballymacdonnell. Matthew McNamara could possibly have died in 1870 at the age of 48, but the Tulla death record is not available online. The widow, Bridget McNamara, was living in Laharden in 1901, age 87; not sure when she died. <Laharden, Kyle, House 6, x>

1.0 Andrew McNamara was baptized in February 1837 in Ballymacdonnell; sponsors, Dennis Hayes, Mary McNamara. Andrew McNamara of Larharden owned three head of cattle in 1900 that frequently went into the meadow of Bridget Murphy of Laharden who was not pleased. <Laharden, Kyle, House 6, House 9> Andrew McNamara, Lahardin, bachelor, gardener, died on 21 May 1918, at the age of 80; informant, Thady McNamara, brother.


2.0 James McNamara was baptized in October 1840 in Ballymacdonnell; sponsors, Daniel Fitzpatrick and Margaret Hayes. Possibly, James McNamara, the servant (age 47 in 1901, age 72 in 1911) in the household of John Bourke, House 10, Derrymore East, Kyle, Clare?


3.0 Bridget McNamara was baptized in January 1844, in Ballymacdonnell; sponsors, Thomas Canny, Margaret McNamara.


4.0 Timothy "Teady" McNamara was baptized in March 1846, in Ballymacdonnell; sponsors, Michael Elligot, Catherine McNamara. <Garruragh, Tulla, House 25.1, patient #112; Laharden, Kyle, House 9> Timothy McNamara, Lahardin, bachelor, farmer, died on 22 March 1921 at the age of 74; informant, Pat Murphy, Lahardin.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:19 pm

Hi Jimbo

Once again, I am greatly impressed. I had looked at the O’Callaghan’s Mills Baptisms but had missed Andrew and Teady, whose baptisms fit so perfectly with the ages given at their deaths. So their parents are Matthew McNamara and Bridget Purcell - thank you for checking and finding that information (so quickly!). Also, I would never have thought of looking in Garruragh workhouse for Timothy – good work there too.

And the Petty Sessions are interesting as well, especially in showing a connection with Derrymore East. I think I understand now why the 1921 Rate Book for Kyle D.E.D. shows Andrew McNamara as having 4 acres,1 rood, 1 perch in the townland of Derrymore East (Lot1). Andrew had died by 1921, but officialdom hadn’t yet caught up with such a recent development (Andrew died in 1918). That Lot of 4 acres doesn’t correspond to the Lot 1 in Griffith’s Valuation (which was only 1 acre, 1 rood), so an extra piece must have been added, at some point, from another farm nearby. The Griffith’s Valuation map shows that Lot 1 in Derrymore East adjoins the townland of Laharden, and it seems the McNamaras did not keep their fences in good order – hence the complaint. That Rate Book for Kyle D.E.D. also shows Thady McNamara occupying a Tulla Rural District Council House, and it seems he was not keeping up with the rent. He also had a piece of bog (“of no value”) – which reminds me that one of the complaints often made against Griffith’s Valuation was that bogs were uniformly considered of no value, when in fact they greatly differed in value, the turf in one bog being much superior to the turf in another bog, and much more saleable, for instance.

Mea culpa Jimbo – I, and I alone, am to blame for the word “owner”. The heading on the column is “Name of Landholder (if any) on whose holding the house is situated whether that name appears in column 13 or not”. And “holding” is not the same as “owning” - a bitter truth we discover when we are only toddlers. We need to look at the Rate Books before we see these people as owners and then the term used is “in fee”. A transcription of Scarriff Rate books was donated by Tom McDowell – I think they are the only Rate books for Clare available online - and the Rate Book for Kyle D.E.D. is included: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... 1_1926.htm.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:42 am

Hi Jimbo

I am realising that we have been over some this ground before (i.e.Andrew and Timothy of Laharden/Derrymore East*). I must admit I have forgotten a lot of what we discussed and found during all that time when we were engaged in trying to find the family of Thomas McNamara. I remember that when the remaining marriage records became viewable on the G.R.O site last year, you noticed some of the mistakes we had made concerning marriages and I think you did some editing at that time. Jimbo, I notice now that the marriage of James McNamara, Kilmore, to Bridget Carthy, in 1869, was registered as the marriage of James Mack. That record shows that his father was Daniel Mack, deceased.
Jimbo, on page 18, you looked at the McNamaras in the townland of Kilmore. You begin by saying “I’m now looking at the McNamara’s who lived in Kilmore”. You set out a family tree which includes Daniel McNamara (3.0) who married Anne Nugent in Feakle in 1828, and you list their children, one of whom is James (3.2) who married Bridget Bridget McCarthy in Tulla in 1869. Jimbo, in light of the the description of Daniel Mack as “deceased” in the marriage record of James, you may wish to edit the note you have on Daniel describing him as possibly the Daniel McNamara from Tulla who died at Tulla Workhouse on 20 Nov 1882, aged 87.
Another thing about this “deceased” is that it reinstates Catherine McNamara, who married Stephen McNamara from Ayle (not the herdsman from Kilgory), as possibly a daughter of Daniel of Kilmore. The record of her marriage to Stephen in 1872 describes her as from Glendree and states that her father, Daniel McNamara, is deceased. The Glendree address is coming against her and of course we don’t know for sure that she is a daughter of Daniel from Kilmore, but you may wish to add her into the family of Daniel McNamara and Anne Nugent – just as a possibility. I found only one record of a birth to Stephen McNamara and Catherine McNamara: 28 Dec 1874: Birth of Bridget McNamara to Stephen McNamara and Catherine McNamara, Ayle (registered in 1875). Stephen McNamara, from Ayle, aged 60, married, died on 30 Jan 1879. Catherine wasted no time and was married, secondly, to Michael Molony, Baloughtera, son of Patrick Molony, Farmer, on 24 Feb. 1879. The 1901 census shows Michael Moloney and Catherine and her daughter Bridget McNamara, aged 24, living in Ayle Upper. And who do you think Bridget married in 1903? She married Michael McNamara, Glendree, son of Laurence McNamara. Jimbo you will remember Laurence, who was still alive when the 1921 Rate Book for Glendree was drawn up - he died in 1922 aged 92

* Derrymore East is called Derrymore Carmody in the Tulla parish register 1862 - 1880, and also in some civil records.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:14 pm

Hi Jimbo

At the marriage of Bridget McNamara to Michael McNamara (son of Lawrence) in Feakle chapel in 1903, the witnesses were Martin Corbett and Mary O’Dea. Mary O’Dea was probably Bridget’s neighbour in Ayle Upper, and not related to her. But I think Martin Corbett was a first cousin of Michael. He was a son of John Corbett and Catherine McNamara, who were living in a place called Glaneen, in the townland of Affog/Afflick (in Tulla parish). Tulla marriages 1846-1861 show the marriage, on 13 Jan 1860, of John Corbett to Catherine McNamara, Glandree; witnesses: Patrick Lahy, Mary Bowels. John and Catherine lived in Glaneen, Affick, and had at least 5 children. One of the sponsors at the baptism of their son, Patrick, in 1868, was Laurence McNamara, and one of the sponsors at the baptism of Martin in 1874 was Honora McNamara (Tulla baptisms).
So it seems that Catherine Corbett (aged 60 in 1901) was a sister of Lawrence - both of them born to Martin McNamara and Bid Foley in Glendree. Laurence was baptised on 29 Jun 1831 and this accords with his death in 1922 at age 92. Catherine was baptised in Jan 1839 and this accords with her age in 1901. I suspect that not all of the baptisms of the children of Martin McNamara and Bid Foley were recorded. Martin and Bid were married on 29 Jan 1826 - the first record of a baptism is that of Mary on 14 Apr 1829.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:32 am

Hi Jimbo

Writing about Lawrence McNamara (above) and the marriage of his son, Michael, brings me to the marriage of his youngest daughter Honor (b.1876), on 27 Feb. 1900, to John O’Hara, from Glendree, son of James O’Hara, in Drumcharley chapel; witnesses: James Harrison, Lena Molony.
James Harrison was a cousin of John O’Hara on his mother’s side. John’s mother was Bridget Harrison, while James Harrison’s father was Martin Harrison, who had married Mary McMahon in 1867 – they lived in Tynedath Upper (Newgrove D.E.D.).

I think Lena Molony may have been a second cousin of Norah (the bride). The 1901 census shows a Lena Molony, aged 16, living in Uggoon Upper, with her father James, aged 60, a widower. This James Molony had married Bridget Morony in 1871 and the marriage record shows that James’s father was John Molony. This John is probably the John Molony, Uggoon, who had married Jane McNamara, Uggoon, on 24 Feb 1824. A son, James was born to this couple on 25 Sep 1842 (in Uggoon). If I am right in thinking that Lena (aged 16 in 1901) is the Lena who was witness at the marriage of Norah in 1900, it may be that Lena’s grandmother, Jane, was a sister of Martin McNamara (husband of Bid Foley), and that Lena’s father, James, was a first cousin of Norah’s father, Lawrence – just a bit of speculation.

Jimbo, I’ve had second thoughts about “reinstating” Catherine McNamara (who married Stephen McNamara) as one of the children of Daniel McNamara and Anne Nugent. First of all, she had never been “instated”, and, secondly, you had pointed out that there were other Daniel McNamaras, any of whom might have been her father. And now I’m remembering that there’s the Daniel who was father of the Mary McNamara who married Patrick Galway in 1866. The record of that marriage shows that Patrick is a Weaver from Glendree, and Mary is a House Servant from Gurteenaneelig. Her father is Daniel McNamara, but he is not the Daniel who died in the Workhouse in 1882, as upon Mary’s second marriage ( to Hugh Tuohy*) in 1878, her father, Daniel McNamara, is noted as dead.

The only indication of Catherine’s age (and year of birth) is the age she gives in 1901 (aged 48), which, if correct, would mean she was born about 1852. Mary Tuohy remained in Glendree, and is in the 1901 census aged 68, living alone. Mary Tuohy, widow of a farmer, died in Tulla workhouse in 1907, aged 70. She would have been born about 1837, so if she was a sister of Catherine, she would have been an older sister – about 15 years older.

Mary’s first husband, Patrick Galway, is listed in Griffith’s Valuation. He is leasing Lot 19, a house and land (3 acres, 3 roods, 5 perches) in Glendree. I reckon Hugh Tuohy, who was from Feakle, “married in”. When Mary Tuohy died in 1907 her little farm went to a Michael McNamara. The 1921 Rate Book for Glendree lists the owner of Lot 19 as Michael McNamara. It is tempting to think that this Michael McNamara is the Michael McNamara who was the husband of Catherine McNamara’s daughter, Bridget, and it is tempting to then go on to infer a close relationship between Catherine and Mary Tuohy. But I think not - there is another Michael McNamara in Glendree (in Lot 3b).

*12 Oct 1878: Marriage of Hugh Tuohy, labourer, widower, Feakle, son of Patrick Tuohy, deceased, to Mary Galway, alias McNamara, widow, Glendree, daughter of Daniel McNamara, in Tulla chapel; witnesses: Michael Nelson, Bridget Reddan.

So, Jimbo, I think it might be best to disregard what I said about "reinstating" Catherine Molony nee McNamara - leave her as just a daughter of some Daniel McNamara - until further notice.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:14 pm

Hi Jimbo

I have just spent a couple of hours reading this thread, as I had forgotten so much of it. I've only done about half of it, but must leave it for now - it is quite difficult and my head is wrecked already.

First of all I must apologize to you for introducing Catherine Corbett, as if she was a discovery, when you had already identified her on page 13 as a sister of Laurence, and provided so much information on her - in return for which you got a snippy reply from me, saying, “We have no evidence that Catherine is a sister of Laurence.” But I see now that you were right.

The other thing that I see now is that there’s an Elena Molony aged 21 in 1901, who is more likely to be the Lena who was witness at the marriage of Honor McNamara, daughter of Laurence, in 1903, than Lena aged 16 from Uggoon. As you show on page 14, Elena’s parents were Michael Molony (the National School Teacher) and Mary McNamara, a daughter of Matthew McNamara and Joanna/Susanna O’Dea, and granddaughter of Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara. On page 14 you venture that Laurence is a first cousin of the children of Matthew and Bridget and you draw attention to the number of times Laurence appears as sponsor at the baptisms of their children. You say:
Martin's son Laurence appears as a sponsor at 5 baptisms for the children of his likely first cousins (children of Bridget McNamara and Andrew McNamara): (1) 1858, James, son of Michael McNamara and Margaret Halpin; (2) 1860, Bridget, daughter of "Michael McNamara" ** and Johanna O'Dea (3) 1867, Michael, son of Michael McNamara and Margaret Halpin; (4) 1870, Anne, daughter of Matthew Halpin and Anne Halpin; (5) 1872, Catherine, Matthew Halpin and Anne Halpin. This provides evidence that Laurence McNamara is related to these two brothers, but it could just as easily be through their father Andrew (non Sheedy) McNamara married to Bridget Sheedy McNamara. Laurence does not appear as a sponsor for the numerous grandchildren of Andrew Sheedy McNamara married to Margaret Clanchy.
So, again, having read that, I now think that Elena is more likely than Lena to have been a second cousin of Honour (Norah) and that it was Elena who was the witness at Honor’s marriage to John O’Hara.

Sheila

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Gerkin » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:10 pm

Hi, I've read a lot of this thread. Though not all of it. (It's a dizzying amount of info). I was just curious if you could give an update on what you know for sure about your Thomas McNamara. For example, do you know who his other siblings were for sure? Or who his parents were, for sure? Or where he lived in the U.S.?

I found an obituary snippet about a Sr. Mary McNamara d. 1934, native of Glandree/Glendree, Lower Feakle. I have no idea if that would be helpful in your research. Could be any McNamara...

Thanks,
Meredith/Gerkin
Last edited by Gerkin on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:51 pm

Hi Meredith

I’m afraid we know nothing more about Thomas now than we did when his sister Elizabeth Hornbeck was located in Wawarsing, New York State, and his sister Mary was found in Barnsley in South Yorkshire, England (it was Mary who placed the advert looking for him). So ever since page 3 of this thread, we have been wandering in the desert. From the beginning, almost, we have been preoccupied with finding the family of Thomas in Glendree, rather than with finding Thomas himself. I think it must have been the chart of likely candidates for the family of Thomas, which Jimbo posted at the bottom of page 1, that sent us in that direction. We started locating the various McNamara families in the townland of Glendree and sifting through them for any sign of a connection with Thomas. Well, we haven’t found any connection so far, but have become familiar enough with those families to make conversation about them possible. That in itself has been a kind of an achievement, as Glendree is at the heart of McNamara country and there is such a tangle of them there, I would never have imagined reaching a stage where I could think of them in terms of a few households. So now that I have reached that stage, I feel I have mastered something very difficult. Also I’ve found myself learning some history - almost in spite of myself. Some of the McNamaras in Glendree became involved in the Land War and this led us down the Land War path and a long way away from Glendree to courtroom settings in Dublin and London. There were many, many times when Thomas was completely forgotten.

Sheila

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