Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:47 am

Hi Sheila,

Yes indeed, it will be difficult correcting all the times that Andrew Sheedy McNamara has been mentioned along with "killed by his own horse" during the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

With additional marriage records now available, as well as new research, I am going to edit the McNamara's of Magherabaun and McNamara's of Kilmore and Uggoon on page 18 in a few days time. Some interesting points:

1) The McNamara clan appears to be very clannish. James McNamara (3.2) and Bridget McCarthy of Kilmore (see page 18) married two of their daughters off to McNamara's from Magherabaun. Why didn't they marry into the other McNamara families of Kilmore? because they were first cousins. Kilmore townland and Magherabaun townland are separated by Ugoon and Glandree townlands.

• in 1905, Mary Anne McNamara (3.2.3) of Kilmore married Michael McNamara, son of James McNamara and Michael Rodgers of Magherabaun.
• in 1906, Norah McNamara (3.2.4) of Kilmore married John McNamara, son of Denis McNamara and Bridget Lynch of Magherabaun.

2) Honora McNamara. There were 3 young women named Honora McNamara in Kilmore and Uggoon that we played match maker and found promising husbands — turns out that we were 0 for 3!

• the Honora McNamara who married William McKey in 1864 in Tulla, turns out was the daughter of Patrick McNamara, of Tyredagh. She was not the daughter of Patrick McNamara and Mary Hogan of Uggoon.
• the Honora McNamara, daughter of Daniel McNamara and Anne Nugent of Uggoon, married James Cody of Ballybroghan, Ogonnelloe Parish. She was not the Honora McNamara of Kilmore who married Martin Kennedy.
• the Honora McNamara of Kilmore, who married Martin Kennedy in 1857, is now more likely to be the Honora, born 1834, daughter of John McNamara and Ellen McNamara — speculation, of course.

One result of above changes: for the family of Patrick McNamara and Mary Hogan who had five children in Uggoon between 1831 and 1837, there is no evidence of this family beyond 1837 in Tulla Parish.

3) Emigration to America:

• Thady McNamara (who was killed by his own horse in 1904) and Bridget Brody of Kilmore had 13 children. Their son Matthew (born 1886) arrived in NY on 7 May 1907 on the ship Umbria, his American contact was brother John (born 1866) in Chicago. There are many John McNamara's in Chicago. And after an American born John McNamara and his brother James McNamara blew up the Los Angeles Times building in 1910, it is quite difficult to research this name in newspaper archives.

• James McNamara and Bridget McCarthy of Kilmore had 13 children, all of whom are recorded in the 1901 census, but many had gone by 1911. From the below 1928 obituary for Delia McNamara, born in 1876, it appears that many had left for Brooklyn:

Delia McNamara died Saturday. Funeral from her residence, 1945 East Thirteenth street, Wednesday at 9:30 A.M., thence to S. Edmund's R.C. Church, East Nineteenth street and Avenue T, where a mass of solemn requiem will be offered for the repose of her soul. She is survived by one brother, John J. McNamara; four sisters, Mrs. Timothy Broderick, Mrs. Patrick Connolly, Mrs. Michael O'Shaughnessy and Annie C. McNamara. She was a native of Tulla, County Clare, Ireland. Interment at Calvary Cemetery, under direction of George T. McHugh, 783 Myrtle avenue.

The Standard Union, Brooklyn, Monday, 13 February 1928
The Mrs. Timothy Broderick of Brooklyn reported above was the Elizabeth McNamara, age 14 in the 1901 Irish census. In the 1930 census for Brooklyn, "niece" Dennia McNamara, age 21, was living in the Timothy and Elizabeth Broderick household. "Dennia" was actually her nephew, Denis McNamara, the son of her sister Nora McNamara of Kilmore who married John McNamara of Magherabaun. Their address in 1930 was 1945 East 13th Street, Brooklyn, the same as the residence of Delia McNamara stated in her obituary. Also at the address in 1930 was Michael Honan, born in Scariff, County Clare on 1 December 1904 according to his naturalization papers.

With regards to the 1928 obituary, I have some doubts that the "surviving" siblings included those still alive and well in County Clare. I also wonder when it no longer became standard practice within the Irish immigrant community in America to start a funeral "from the residence". 

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:48 am

Happy St. Patrick’s Day, everybody.

Hi Jimbo,

That’s good work. But first I must explain that I’ve deleted my references to Andrew McNamara as having died of a kick from a horse. I felt it must be very annoying for his descendants to find him described so wrongly. Plus he could just as easily have been identified as the husband of Margaret McEvoy. I found I had made only two references. I did an “ordinary” search of the word “horse” on each page (I didn’t use the forum search) and found that both the references I had made were on page 9. In both cases the reference to the horse were unnecessary and I just deleted them.

Good work finding that the McNamara families in the townland of Kilmore are first cousins. I have a feeling that the Kilmore McNamaras have a connection with the Feakle McNamaras. You may remember that I said (on page 18)
It’s interesting to note that, at the time of Griffith’s Valuation, Major E. H. F. Pocklington was landlord for six townlands in Feakle parish (including Lecarrow Upper), but landlord for only one in Tulla parish, the townland of Kilmore: ... ffithp.htm
Yes, I can see that the “new” marriage records are going to be very helpful. As you know, many of the Births, Marriages and Deaths, which were registered in Tulla Union, are to be found under “Galway” (for some reason that I cannot understand). The records that can be found under “Galway” start at 1864 and can be viewed online now as well (as the Tulla records). I don’t think the “Galway” records are simply a repeat of Tulla records – I see some marriages under “Galway” that are not under Tulla, e.g. the marriage of Michael Moloney and Catherine McNamara on 18 Jan 1869. It was registered in Kilkishen registration district in Tulla Union: Michael Moloney, Widower, Pensioner, Liscullane, son of John Moloney, Labourer, to Catherine McNamara, Widow, Servant, Liscullane, daughter of John McNamara, Labourer, in O’Callaghan’s Mills chapel; witnesses: Richard Fitzgerald, Mary Hogan. Jimbo, I still believe that Mary Madigan (née McNamara) wanted to find Thomas in order to tell him about a death or a marriage, both when she placed the ad in 1869 and when she placed it in 1879. I’ve no idea why she placed it in 1879, but I wonder if this marriage of Catherine McNamara was the reason for placing it in 1869. Although the marriage took place in O’Callaghan’s Mills, the address is Liscullane and this is where Mary and her husband James Madigan were living when their first child was born. I found no baptisms for children of Michael Molony and Catherine McNamara in Tulla, Quin-Clooney or O’Callaghan’s Mills. But when I looked on I found some Maloney children born in Kansas City, Missouri, whose parents are Michael Maloney and Catherine McNamara. There’s Mary Maloney born Sept 1874, John Sylvester Maloney born April 1876, Jeremiah Francis Maloney born 1877, Michael Maloney born 1883. I found a Michael Maloney with a wife called Kate in the 1880 census for Missouri (Michael Maloney aged 27, and his wife Kate aged 27, both born in Ireland, and two children, Mary aged 6, Martin aged 8 months), but I don’t think this Kate can be Catherine McNamara – the couple are two young. Anyway, all this is going nowhere!

Note:If you look under Galway (civil) records for McNamara, you will find that the name almost always belongs to Tulla (or one of the districts within Tulla Union, i.e. Killanena, Quin, Kilkishen, O’Callaghan’s Mills) – so for once the name McNamara makes searching easy.


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:25 am

Hi Sheila

The fact that the McNamara's of Kilmore married their daughters to McNamara men from Magherabaun, doesn't exactly prove that all the McNamara families from Kilmore are closely related, but it does point in that direction.

I would say that many people using the irelandgenealogy website for County Clare records don't know to search in Galway — this must be a real stumbling block for some researchers. I always search Tulla, Galway, and Scariff districts and can't make out any rhyme or reason how the Births, Marriages and Deaths are being reported.

Interesting that the McNamara's are so concentrated in Tulla as well as Killanena, Quin, Kilkishen, and O’Callaghan’s Mills. During the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree, it would be amazing to also stumble upon the ancestry of John J. McNamara and James B. McNamara, the two brothers who blew up the Los Angeles Times building in 1910. So little is known of their ancestry. Below are photos of the two men. With the McNamara surname, their Irish born father was most likely born in County Clare. I wonder if from the photos people living in County Clare could identify them as having a very "East Clare" look, or more specifically, say, as having a "Quin" look about them. John J. McNamara, the brother on the right, was frequently described as having a "handsome boyish face". Both men have very prominent noses that might point to a specific Clare parish.

James B (left) and John J McNamara.jpg
James B (left) and John J McNamara.jpg (22.31 KiB) Viewed 6766 times

The fact that the McNamara's of Kilmore and Magherabaun had the same landlord, Major E. H. F. Pocklington, at the time of Griffiths Valuation is interesting. We saw a family connection with another landlord — Michael Halloran, Sr., was a herdsman for Henry Spaight in Rine townland, and then Michael Halloran, Jr., was herdsman for his son James Spaight at Affock Lodge. The relationships between tenant farmer and landlord are certainly important clues that shouldn't be overlooked when searching for Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

And, yes, indeed, the marriage records now becoming available provide important clues. Possibly even lead to further records that provide evidence of 18th and early 19th century relationships.

Sheila, you will remember the two brothers, Denis Cooney and James Cooney, who were locked up at Mountjoy Prison for ten years before being released in 1900 — see discussion on page ten. Here is information on their release from an Irish newspaper, The Freeman's Journal:

The names of the five men who were released from Mountjoy Prison on Monday are — Martin Maloney, Denis Cooney, James Cooney, Cornelius Howard, and Patrick Hurst. The arrest and trial of these men were marked by a peculiar feature, inasmuch as they were convicted of firing at man named Scanlan, who failed to identify them at the time of the arrest, but succeeded in doing so some time subsequently. All the men were convicted at the assizes in Sligo held early in 1890, and the sentence was 20 years' penal servitude, which was given by the present Lord Chief Justice. The prisoners have, therefore, been incarcerated for about ten years.

The two men of the second batch who were released on Monday from Maryborough prison are Brady and Hartigan, who were convicted of firing at a man named Hanlon, and in this case there were circumstances strongly suggestive of doubts as to the prisoners' guilt, but they were likewise sentenced to 20 years' penal servitude by the then Sir Peter O'Brien at Sligo Assizes in 1890, so that they have suffered 10 years of their sentences.

The Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 6 June 1900
Denis Cooney, born 1863, and James Cooney, born 1865, were the sons of Denis Cooney and Johanna Sheedy McNamara of Glandree, as noted on page 13 and below:
............ 4.4 Johanna Sheedy McNamara (1835 - 1899) married in February 1856 to Dennis Cooney (age 65 in 1901) <House 51, x>
......................... 4.4.1 Patrick Cooney (1857)
......................... 4.4.2 Bridget Cooney (1859)
......................... 4.4.3 Mary Cooney (1860)
......................... 4.4.4 Denis Cooney (1863) <Glendree, House 51, House 33> and wife Catherine (age 43 in 1911)
......................................... Mary Agnes Cooney (age 6 in 1911) <Glendree, x, House 33>
......................................... Delia Margaret Cooney (age 3 in 1911 <Glendree, x, House 33>
......................................... Denis Cooney (age 2 in 1911) <Glendree, x, House 33>
......................... 4.4.5 James Cooney (1865) <Glendree, House 51, House 33>
......................... 4.4.6 Margaret Cooney (1867)
......................... 4.4.7 Michael Cooney (1870)
......................... 4.4.8 Matthew Cooney (1872)
......................... 4.4.9 John Cooney (1874) <Glendree, House 51, x>
......................... 4.4.10 Andrew Cooney (1876)
In the 1911 Irish Census, Denis Cooney was married with a wife Catherine and three children. But I never researched their marriage until now. Denis Cooney, of Glandree, son of Denis Cooney (deceased), married Catherine McNamara, of Glandree, daughter of Michael McNamara (deceased), on 4 February 1902 at Drumcharley Chapel; witnesses Michael Cooney and Margaret McInerney (Galway registration).

Denis Cooney was the grandson of Andrew Sheedy McNamara (1802 - 1867) and Margaret Clanchy (1798 - 1890).

Catherine McNamara was the granddaughter of Bridget McNamara (1793 - 1883) and Andrew McNamara (1790 - 1869).

My theory when showing the McNamara of Glandree family tree on page 13, was that Bridget McNamara (1793 - 1883) and Andrew Sheedy McNamara (1802 - 1867) were siblings. The Catholic marriage record of their grandchildren in 1902 will surely show that they married in the "third degree of consanguinity" — that the bride and groom were second cousins.

Denis Cooney and Catherine McNamara were married in 1902 in Drumcharley Chapel in Tulla Parish. One thing that I am not certain about is where the Catholic marriage register would be physically located. Does Drumcharley Chapel have their own marriage register? Or was all marriage information consolidated into the Tulla Parish register? Tulla Parish has three Catholic churches in Tulla, Drumcharley and Knockjames. In America, each separate church would maintain their own baptism and marriage registers, but I'm not sure if this would be the case in Ireland. Anyways, it is truly amazing that a 1902 entry in a marriage register will prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, a sibling relationship between a girl born in 1793 and a boy born in 1802.

Denis Cooney, the father of the groom Denis Cooney, was deceased at the time of the 1902 marriage. He must have died between 31 March 1901 (the census date) and 4 February 1902. However, I cannot find his civil death record.

When Denis Cooney married his second cousin Catherine McNamara, all of their parents were deceased. This marriage was not arranged by their parents. Catherine McNamara waited 10 long years for her sweetheart Denis Cooney to get out of Mountjoy Prison to finally marry. A very romantic story.

Shelia, you might argue that John McNamara, her older brother, arranged the marriage to finally get his sister Catherine out of his house, but I don't reckon that was the case at all. I did stumble upon an Irish documentary on youtube that describes match making in Ireland. It's a 50 minute documentary on the Irish song writer Percy French (1854 - 1920), narrated by the Irish tenor Brendan O'Dowda (1925 - 2002). A bit long, but definitely worth watching:

At the 40 minute mark, Mr. O'Dowda explains match making in Ireland, "in Percy French's time it was used quite a lot and had its practical uses, an instance of it would be say where you two small neighboring farms and the owners of the farms would like to see then united into a larger unit; so what they tried to do was they tried to wangle to marry off the eldest son in one to the eldest daughter of the other, and about half the time the poor devils had no say in it all . . . . "

This was the introduction to the Percy French song "McBreen's Heifer" which provides a fascinating look at Irish match making:

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:54 am

Hi Jim

Thanks of the documentary on Percy French, which I enjoyed – even though Brendan O’Dowda omits The Darling Girl from Clare and Are You Right There Michael?. Brendan O’Dowda gives a fine rendition of The Mountains of Mourne, but I like Don McLean’s version too:

Jimbo, I remember very well your theory that Bridget McNamara (1793 – 1883) was a sister of Andrew Sheedy McNamara (1802 – 1867) and you are allowed to have a theory, of course, but then you go ahead and say “When Denis Conney married his second cousin Catherine McNamara” when you must know that this will not pass muster. :)

Will the death records ever, ever become available, I wonder. They may yield up something, but I’m too negative to expect very much – so many of the records that are available already are for people who died in the workhouse and the official gives no home address. The Kilrush Union records are better than the Tulla Union records, I think. The much kinder official there often gives a clue, such as “widow of a carpenter”.


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:27 am

Hi Jimbo,

I forgot to answer your question about where the parish registers were kept. I think they were kept in the priest’s house (in Ireland we use the word “presbytery” for the priest’s house, but I think "presbytery" refers to elders of the church in other places). People searching for their roots used to call to the priest’s house and ask to see the register, but I don’t imagine that this is possible anymore because there are so few priests and they are very busy.
It was very generous of the church to allow the National Library to make the registers viewable online. I’m hoping that the cut off point will be moved to 1890, or even later, as the names of sponsors can be helpful. There is one register in Co. Clare that I admire very much and would love to see more of: the Kilnaboy and Rath marriage register 1862 – 1880, but it’s dated 1862 -1880 on the cover, so that might be all there is of it. If every register was like this one, doing genealogy would be a piece of cake. When you look at it, you must go to the second page and here you will see it in all its glory: the names of both parents and their address, along with the names of the witnesses and their addresses: ... 1/mode/1up


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:48 am

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for your answering my question about the location of the baptism and marriage registers. I suppose the "Parish Priest" was responsible for maintaining the register for each parish, and thus Tulla Parish would have only one register despite having three churches in Tulla, Drumcharley, and Knockjames. I still wish we had a better idea of the process flow. Did the curates of Drumcharley and Knockjames just scribble down their baptism and marriage information on a scrappy bit of paper and give it to the Parish Priest to write down in the official parish register? Or is there a separate Drumcharley and Knockjames church register that has not been copied by the National Library of Ireland?

Yes, while I am confident that Bridget McNamara (1793 - 1883) and Andrew Sheedy McNamara (1802 - 1867) were indeed siblings, there is no actual proof yet that Denis Cooney and Kate McNamara were second cousins.

Two second cousins from Magherabaun were on the ship Teutonic that departed from Queenstown and arrived in New York on 25 April 1894 — this solves an open mystery. Anne McNamara, born in 1876, daughter of James McNamara and Margaret Rodgers (see page 18), married Patrick O'Malley in 1906, but Anne could not be located at the 1901 Irish Census. Now we know she was in New York City. She was traveling with three others on the Teutonic, including her second cousin, James McNamara, son of James McNamara and Margaret Bowles.

Anne's grandfather Michael McNamara of Magherabaun Plot 16 and James' grandfather James McNamara of Magherabaun Plot 15, both plots being 49 acres at Griffith Valuation, were most surely brothers. Hence, I am very confident that Anne McNamara and James McNamara were second cousins.

Both Anne McNamara and James McNamara gave "Magheraban" as their last Irish residence, and that they were headed to Brooklyn. James McNamara, was returning to the USA, and on the ship register stated that he was 25 years old. This was a slight exaggeration by four years. James was traveling with three 18 year old women. I reckon their safety was entrusted in his care by their parents, since he was older and had already made the journey to America. This would explain why James wanted to appear a bit older than the three young women he was chaperoning.

The other two women on the Teutonic were Kate Markham, age 18, from Garruagh, going to New York; daughter of Michael Markham and Bridget Hogan. And Katie Molony, age 18, from "Uggdon", going to Patterson, New Jersey. Katie Molony, was the granddaughter of Joan McNamara and John Molony of Uggoon (see page 18, Kilmore & Uggoon McNamara's), but I don't believe she was a close cousin of the other two McNamara's. The UK Outward bound register provides their ticket numbers, 11690 through 11693, which is evidence that the four were traveling together.

Anne McNamara would be a very common name in Ireland. However, I reckon she is the "A McNamara", female, age 27, a servant, returning from New York to Queenstown on 8 April 1903 on the ship Ivernia. So she worked in America about nine years in total. Her mother died in April 1904 which may have been the reason for her return to Ireland. Or perhaps she had earned enough money in New York and her plan was always to return to Ireland to marry. I reckon in the 1900 USA census she is the Anne McNamara, age 23, who arrived in America in 1895, and a servant in the Charles J. Bruno household at 94 Riverside Drive in Manhattan. Mr. Bruno was a 54 year old widower, with three unmarried daughters in their early 20's, and three hired help (butler, cook, servant). His occupation was a dealer in musical instruments, and owner with his brother of Bruno & Sons of New York, which was founded by their German born father. Charles J. Bruno died in 1912 and the NY obituaries would describe him as a "millionaire". Hopefully, Anne McNamara was well compensated and able to send money home to her widowed mother back in Magherabaun.

The movements of her second cousin James McNamara are less clear as he reported a wide range of years when he immigrated to the USA on census reports. Born in 1872, I reckon he arrived in the USA first about 1892 at the age of 20, and returned to Ireland in 1894. Perhaps in these early years James was in Brooklyn. In May 1899, when his younger brother Henry McNamara arrived in New York, Henry stated that he was going to his brother James McNamara who worked at Mercy Hospital in Pittsburgh.

Mercy Hospital in Pittsburgh, according to their website, was founded in 1847, the first hospital in Pittsburgh, and the first Mercy hospital in the world: ... -founders/

In the 1860 USA census, the Mercy Hospital in Pittsburgh included six nuns as well as one Catholic priest, 28 year old Rev. Father Francis J. O'Shea, born in Ireland.

In the 1900 Census, in the household of Henry "Harry" Bowles at 7620 Susquehanna Street, along with his wife and daughter, are his nephew "J McNamara", age 24, a "Policeman". The nephew "J McNamara" could either be James McNamara (born 1872) or his older brother John J. McNamara (born 1871) as both were living in Pittsburgh. The ages are off for both brothers, but based upon James McNamara being a guard in future census years, I reckon this would be the closest to a "policeman". Plus, Henry Bowles was both the uncle and godfather at James McNamara's baptism in 1872.

In 1900, James McNamara was not only working at Mercy Hospital, but was a "night nurse" (probably similar to a guard) at their insanity ward. In both St Elizabeths Hospital in Washington D.C. and now Mercy Hospital in Pittsburgh, it is peculiar the frequent connections between the McNamara's of Tulla Parish and mental institutions of America. James McNamara would provide witness testimony for the complainant in a most incredible hearing; one that appears to highlight the clash between traditional Irish customs and modern American medicine:




Testimony That Disobedience of a Doctor Is No Proof of a Patient's Mental Aberration.

The hearing in the lunacy proceedings against Rev. Father Francis J. O'Shea, instituted by Rev. Maurice O'Shea, a nephew of the respondent, was continued yesterday afternoon before Commissioner T.S. Parker. Four physicians, who testified to having examined Father O'Shea at various times, said they had been unable to discover any traces of senile dementia. During the taking of testimony the respondent sat beside his counsel, alertly listening to the evidence.

The complainant's case was completed [prior days' testimony were doctors for the complainant] with the testimony of James McNamara, who was employed as night nurse at Mercy hospital during the time of Rev. Father O'Shea's confinement at the institution. The witness stated that the respondent had frequently suffered from the delusion that the bed clothes would crawl up around his throat and choke him, and insisted that they be firmly tucked in. He also said that the patient was slovenly in his habits, going around with his shirt collar open and no stockings on his feet. He had a habit, the witness said, of going out on the porch surrounding the building in the coldest weather with no hat on his head and no stockings. His feet were covered only by a pair of slippers. The witness thought the old gentleman's memory was bad. On cross examination the witness said that Rev. Father O'Shea was a believer in the Grass cure for rheumatism, and claimed that it relieved him to go out into the cold with his feet uncovered.

The first witness for the defense was Dr. J. C. Dunn, who attend Father O'Shea ever since his removal from the Mercy hospital in June. The witness had satisfied himself that the respondent was perfectly capable of conducting his own business affairs to advantage.

Dr. Dunn was asked whether he knew anything of Rev. Father O'shea's faith in the grass cure for rheumatism "Yes, I know he has very strong faith in it," he answered. "He told me that while he was at the college in Loretto [Saint Francis University in Loretto, PA] he made a practice of walking bare feet twice a day. He said he was troubled with burning sensations in his feet which he could relieve only by removing their coverings and walking in the cool grass."

"Do you consider the custom any evidence of mental aberration in the respondent?"

"No. The practice has become common in the medical profession, and hundreds of patients have used it with beneficial results."

"Suppose he continued the practice against the advice of his physician would you not consider that evidence that he was insane?"

"Certainly not. If a man were to be considered insane for acting against the advice of his physician we could never build asylums enough to accommodate those who would be condemned."

Dr. B.M. Dickinson, of the Mercy hospital staff, had satisfied himself that the patient was mentally sound, . . . .[further testimony] . . .

Pittsburgh Daily Post, Pennsylvania, 28 September 1900
To be continued . . . .

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:14 am

Hi Jimbo

A lot more work done by you there. Yes, it does seem likely that James McNamara in Plot 15 and Michael McNamara in Plot 49 (in Griffith’s Valuation of Maherabaun) were brothers, but it is only a likelihood. I really don’t think you should move on to saying, “The movements of her [Anne McNamara] second cousin James McNamara are less clear”. You are leaping from a likelihood to a statement of fact. I worry that this will mislead some future researcher.

About the parish registers and whether there was one for each church in the parish, I’m afraid I am very ignorant. The Catholic parishes were always evolving (as to the area each one covered) and still are evolving – it would take a lot of research to figure them out.

There seem to be some registers out there that have not been collected by the National Library. For instance, you will have noticed that Eric Shaw donated a transcription of Clare Abbey and Killone Baptisms, in December (2019): ... 4-1853.htm And you will see that his source is Clarecastle Pastoral Council and Fr Pat Malone - not the N.L.I. collection.
There was some clarification on the situation in a posting by Paddy Waldron back in December 2015. It’s the last posting in a thread entitled “Glynn Family Mystery Still”: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6722. But that was four years ago and maybe the situation has changed. This Local Studies list shows what’s been transcribed to date and gives an indication of what’s available now: ... llaloe.htm.


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:42 am

Hi Sheila,

Thank you for the further explanation on parish registers.

Michael McNamara of Maherabaun townland was in Plot 16, and not Plot 49. The fact that James McNamara (Plot 15) and Michael McNamara (Plot 16) were in neighboring plots of an equal 49 acres was probable evidence that a father split his land equally between two brothers. Now, I am not worried that a future researcher could be confused by your mistake as would assume they would read the prior postings on the same topic and take note of the obvious typo. Nor, for that matter, am I worried that they would be confused from one single sentence taken out of the context of a larger posting that highlighted that any McNamara cousin relationships were purely theoretical. Theories that future evidence might either prove or disprove.

Continued research into the McNamara's of Pittsburgh did provide some important new insight that will assist in the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree from a surprising source.

Saner minds did prevail in the lunacy trial of the Rev. Francis J. O'Shea, and in October 1900 the verdict went in his favor. An article in The Pittsburgh Daily Post was headed "Father O'Shea Found To Be Sane", although "probable cause for suit was declared to exist" so the County Cork born priest would have to pay for his own attorney costs. The evidence, which seemed to center on whether going barefoot in winter was a sign of lunacy, showed how easy it could be in 1900 to get committed to an insane asylum. Father O'Shea was fortunate to be able to afford competent attorneys to defend him, as the proceedings brought on by his nephew, Father Maurice O'Shea, were surely always about money. Father Francis O'Shea died in April 1901, and the newspaper headline stated "One Nephew Gets All" — his entire state of $12,900 went to his nephew John E. O'Shea. His nephew Father Maurice O'Shea received nothing.

Needless to say, after testifying at the lunacy proceedings, James McNamara can no longer be found working at Mercy Hospital. In the 1910 census, his occupation was bartender working at a saloon. He was living with his wife Nellie R Mcanamara, one year old son James McNamara, and brother John McNamara (age 40) in 1910. Later census reports in 1920 and 1930 indicated that he was a guard at the penitentiary in Pittsburgh. James McNamara died in 1956:
McNAMARA — James, husband of the late Nellie Reilly McNamara, formerly of 1407 Superior Ave., N.S. on Wednesday, June 20, 1956, beloved father of James A. McNamara of Perrysville and brother of Mrs. Margaret Bond, Mrs. Sarah Wilson, Mrs. Emily Gallaher, of Washington D.C., Mary of Pittsburgh, and Mrs. Thomas Regan and Ambrose in Ireland; also five grandchildren. Friends may call at O'Brien's 3724 California at Cooper Aves, N.S. Requiem high mass in St. Andrews Church, Saturday at 9 a.m.

Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph, 21 June 1956
His older brother, John J. McNamara, who James had been living with in 1910, had died one decade earlier:
McNAMARA — On Tuesday, John J., husband of Mary Creamer, father of John H. and Mary McNamara; son of the late James and Margaret Bowles McNamara of Ireland; brother of James McNamara of Pgh., Ambrose McNamara of Ireland, Mrs. Eleanor M. Ihmsen of Pgh., Mrs. Margaret Bond and Mrs. Emily Galleher of Washington D.C., Mrs. Delia Regan of Ireland and Mary McNamara of Pgh. Funeral from the L.P. Smith Funeral Home, 1707 Brighton Pl., on Saturday at 9:15 a.m. Requiem high mass at St. Andrews Church at 10 o'clock. Friends invited.

Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph, Thursday, 3 October 1946
The wife of John J. McNamara died in 1949:
McNAMARA — On Friday, Mary Creamer McNamara, mother of Mrs. Mary Heim and Jack McNamara, sister of Mrs. Rose Poelcher, Funeral from the new L.P. Smith Funeral Home, 1615 Brighton Rd., N.S., on Monday at 8:15 a.m. Requiem high mass at the Church of the Assumption at 9 o'clock. Friends invited.

The Pittsburgh Press, Saturday, 19 February 1949
From the USA census reports, Mary Creamer McNamara was born in Ireland. The Creamer surname, even given my limited knowledge, didn't sound like it would be from County Clare. To confirm this assumption, I discovered her USA immigration record. Mary Creamer, a servant, age 19, from Cavan, left Londonderry on the ship Columbia and arrived in New York on 22 May 1904. She was going to her sister, Bessie Creamer, at 564 Sheridan Ave, E. Pittsburgh, PA. Mary Creamer McNamara's death record from 1949 stated that her parents were "Patrick Cresmer" and "May McTernan". Mary Creamer, age 17, was recorded in the Irish 1901 census living with her father Patt Creamer (age 60) and mother Mary Creamer (age 45), and five siblings in Garvesk, Dowra, County Cavan. A check of the civil birth record for the youngest daughter, stated that her parents were Patrick Creamer and Mary McTirnan. Garvesk is a small townland in County Cavan, just north of the border with County Leitrim. In the 1901 Irish census there were 14 households in Garvesk townland, of which, six had the surname "Creamer". The future Mary Creamer McNamara of Pittsburgh was in House 7: ... k/1049317/

Mary Creamer's sister Bessie was not one of the six children with the Creamer family in 1901. In the 1911 Irish census, Patrick and Mary Creamer reported that they were the parents of seven children. Bessie Creamer had left for America prior to 1901.

So what happened to Bessie Creamer? Curious, I checked the newspaper archives for the name "Bessie Creamer". The resulting news article brought surprise and confusion:
McNAMARA — On Monday, March 20, at 8:45 p.m., Bessie Creamer McNamara, beloved wife of John J. McNamara. Funeral on Friday, March 24 at 9 a.m. from her late residence, 2631 ½ Leland Ave., N.S. Solemn requiem high mass at Annunciation Church at 9:30 a.m. Friends invited.

The Pittsburgh Press, Wednesday, 22 March 1933
So Mary Creamer of County Cavan was married to a John J. McNamara of Pittsburgh? And her sister Bessie Creamer of County Cavan was also married to a John J. McNamara of Pittsburgh? How could that be?

Researching the census reports of John J. and Bessie McNamara of Leland Avenue, Pittsburgh, I realized that Bessie's husband John J. McNamara was born in Glandree in 1878, the son of Patrick McNamara and Kate McMahon. In fact, back in December 2018, I had already identified him as married to a Bessie Creamer — see family tree on page 14. He was the grandson of Patrick McNamara and Kate Foley.

Mary Creamer was married to the John J. McNamara, born in Glandree in 1871, son of James McNamara and Margaret Bowles; the grandson of John Bowles and Ellen Foley — see family tree on page 14 and also on page 18.

Most likely the two John J. McNamara's of Pittsburgh were second cousins, due to their grandmothers Kate Foley and Ellen Foley being sisters. If so, the children of Mary Creamer McNamara and Bessie Creamer McNamara living in Pittsburgh would both be first cousins due to their mothers, as well as third cousins based upon the McNamara relationship.

Sheila, the Creamer sisters of County Cavan will now surely raise substantial doubt about our assumptions of two sisters marrying two brothers.

We had assumed that (the presumed) sisters Margaret Halpin and Anne Halpin of Ballyoughtra who married Michael McNamara and Matthew McNamara, respectively, indicated a brother relationship between the two McNamara's of Glandree (see page 13). But why couldn't Michael and Matthew have just as likely been first cousins? or for that matter second cousins?

Similarly, in the Michael Considine thread, with the two sisters Susan Rickards and Elizabeth Rickards, married to John Considine and Patrick Considine, respectively, we had assumed that the sister relationship was clear evidence of a brother relationship between their two Considine husbands. But again, why couldn't John and Patrick have just as likely been first or second cousins?


On a positive note, these various cousin relationships between the McNamara's of Pittsburgh and of Washington D.C., do show the importance of not only first but second cousins for Irish immigrants to America. And in the ongoing search for the missing Civil War soldier Thomas McNamara of Glandree, perhaps identifying his likely first and second cousins could provide important clues leading to his discovery.

It is amazing that two sisters from County Cavan could lead us to this new insight in our search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:57 am

Hi Jim

Good work. It shows how very helpful the U.S. records are. And shows that second cousins were all part of the family. They were invited to weddings and, as we know, “going to a wedding is the making of another.”


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:50 am

Hi Sheila,

With many Irish immigrants from the same townlands moving to the same American cities, I can see why many Irish and Irish-Americans, especially in Pennsylvania and western New York, married into German-American families of the shared Catholic faith. In this way, they could be certain that they weren't closely related.

I've updated the descendants of Patrick McNamara and Bridget Rodgers of Derryfodda townland with new information. The updated family tree starts from the Rodgers family of Drummin townland; I had done a very poor attempt with their family tree back in November 2018 on page 12 and this finally will fix those many mistakes.

Of particular interest with these updates:
• Winifred McNamara, daughter of Patrick McNamara of Derryfodda, married Patrick McNamara, son of Patrick McNamara, of Knocknahane.
• Patrick McNamara, son of Patrick McNamara, remained in Derryfodda, and married Anne Moroney. Anne Moroney was the daughter of Catherine Doyle Moroney whose husband Michael Moroney was shot at Leighort on the night of 25 February 1882 and who William Forster, Chief Secretary of Ireland, visited at Tulla Workhouse Hospital the day before he died on the 4th of March - see drawing on page 21. Anne's father was Catherine's second husband, also named Michael Moroney, from Cloonagro.
• John Rogers of Drummin townland lived in Wales for several years, where he married and had two children, before leaving for America in 1884, and settling in Pittsburgh.

Rodgers of Drummin & McNamara of Derryfodda Family Tree:

In 1855 Griffiths Valuation in Drummin Townland (Feakle Parish), were six families sharing one farm of 565 acres. In House 1b, was Thomas Rogers. In 1876, a Thomas Rodgers died at the age of 85, Scariff registration district. When the civil death record becomes available on-line it will hopefully provide the location as well as marital status and informant.

Most likely, this Thomas Rodgers [1791 - 1876] of Scariff registration district will be the Thomas Rogers of GV Drummin as well as the father of Michael Rodgers [1816 - 1879] of Drummin, who named his first born son Thomas. Another possibility is the Thomas Rogers of Gortvalla Townland (Feakle Parish) recorded in 1855 Griffiths Valuation living in House 2a.

Michael Rodgers married Winifred Nee [1817 - 1882] prior to the 1842 start of the Caher Feakle marriage register. Their son Thomas Rodgers was born about 1841, also prior to the 1842 start of the Caher Feakle baptism register. Three other children are recorded in the register: Biddy in 1848, John in 1858, and John in 1859. It would be fairly typical for a young couple to have children over a 20 year span, but for Michael Rodgers and Winifred Nee, there are large gaps with no children born, from 1842 to 1847, as well as from 1849 to 1857. Drummin townland appears to have been mostly mountains and not the most fertile for growing crops. Did the Rodgers move to a neighboring parish or perhaps did Michael Rodgers seek work in Britain (similar to his son John in Wales) which might explain the gap in births?

Michael Rodgers, of Drummin, age 63 years, married, farmer, died on 20 December 1879; informant Thomas Rodgers of Drummin. Winifred Rodgers, of Dromod, age 65 years, widow of Michael Rodgers, farmer, died on 21 April 1882; informant Thomas Rodgers of Dromod.

Michael Rodgers [1816 - 1879] and Winifred Nee [1817 - 1882] had at least four children:

1.0 Thomas Rodgers was born about 1841 based upon his death record; prior to the 1842 start of the Cahermurphy baptism register. Thomas Rodgers, of Drummin, was informant upon death of father in 1879 and mother in 1882. Thomas Rodgers married Kate Noone of Beagh (aka Shanaglish) in Galway in 1883 (source: FHL index; civil record is not yet available). "Noone" surname could be spelt as "Noo", "New", or "Noonan" in civil birth records of children. In the 1911 Irish census, Thomas and Kate Rogers reported that they were the parents of nine children, five living. <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5> Thomas Rogers, of Drummin, married, age 88, died on 3 July 1929; informant John Rogers, of Drummin, son of deceased.

............ 1.1 John Rogers (age 15 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5> John Rodgers, farmer, of Drummin, Flagmount, son of Thomas Rodgers, married Mary Cooney, of Inchaboy, daughter of Thomas Cooney, in Kilbeacanty Church, Galway (Gort district) on 28 June 1944; witnesses Martin McNamara and Kathleen Sinnott. John Rodgers, of Drummin, Feakle, farmer, married, age 69 years, died on 31 January 1954; informant wife Mary Rodgers.

............ 1.2 Michael Rogers (age 12 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, x> Died prior to 1911.

............ 1.3 Thomas M. Rogers (age 10 in 1901). <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5> Per 1955 obituary, Thomas Rodgers "came to Pittsburgh 44 years ago and worked for the Pittsburgh Railway Co. 43 years. Mr. Rodgers leaves his wife, Celia Mahon Rodgers; three sons, the Rev. Kieran OSB, assistant at St. Boniface Church, the Rev. Thomas Michael, assistant at Annunciation Church, and John[and four grandchildren]; and a daughter, Sister Mary Thomas, teacher at St. Mary Magdalene's School in Homestead". Surviving siblings are reported below.

............ 1.4 James Rogers (age 8 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, x> Died prior to 1911.

............ 1.5 Edward Rogers (age 6 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, x> Died prior to 1911.

............ 1.6 Martin Rogers (age 3 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5>, "of Pittsburgh" per 1955 obituary of brother Thomas Rodgers.

............ 1.7 Timothy Rogers (age 0 in 1901) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5> , "of Pittsburgh" per 1955 obituary of brother Thomas Rodgers.

............ 1.8 Mary Rogers (age 7 in 1911) <Drummin, Cahermurphy, House 5, House 5>, "Mrs. Mary Gurley of Ireland" per 1955 obituary of brother Thomas Rodgers.

............ 1.9 Unknown Rodgers (in 1911, parents reported 9 children, 5 living)

2.0 Bridget Rodgers, of "Curra", baptized on 22 June 1848; sponsors Tim and Terrisa Rodgers. Bridget Rodgers, of Derryfadda, daughter of Michael Rodgers, married Patrick McNamara, of Derryfadda, son of Thomas McNamara (deceased), on 21 February 1871 at Killenena Chapel; witnesses Patrick McNamara and Mary Noone. <Derryfodda, Killanena, House 5, House 1> Patt McNamara, of Derryfadda, married, farmer, age 73, died on 9 February 1916; informant, son Patt McNamara. Bridget McNamara, at Knocknahanee (at her daughter Winifred's?), widow of a farmer, age 80, died on 1 January 1928; informant son Patt McNamara of Derryfadda.

............ 2.1 Mary McNamara, of Derrafadda, baptized on 10 Nov 1871; sponsors Martin and Eliza Rodgers. Maria McNamara, of Derryfodda, daughter of Patrick McNamara, married Joseph Sammon (transcribed as "Gannon"; correction submitted), of Pollatrumpha [Cahermurphy], son of Martin Sammon, on 24 November 1909 at Killanena Chapel; witnesses Richard McArthur and Winifred McNamara. <Pollatrumpa, Corlea, Mary in 1901?, House 2>. Maria Sammon, of Poutatrumpa, widow, age 65 years, died on 17 November 1937; informant Michael McNamara, nephew of deceased.

............ 2.2 Thomas P. McNamara, of Derryfadda, baptized 23 Mar 1873; sponsors Michael Mack, Eliza Rodgers. Thomas McNamara arrived in NYC on SS Teutonic on 30 May 1895 (age 22). Thomas McNamara, born in Ireland on 17 March 1875, residing at 3350 Penn Avenue, Pittsburgh, occupation a bartender, and Catherine Lydon, born in Pittsburgh on 1 November 1880, married on 2 October 1902 in Allegheny (source Pennsylvania marriage records). Thomas, of 3350 Penn Avenue, was American contact for sister Della McNamara when she first arrived in New York in 1901. Family would consistently use the "Mack" surname. In 1930, Thomas Mack was a car inspector for a steam railroad and his family was living on North Huntington Township Road in Westmoreland County:
......................... 2.2.1 Thomas Mack (age 20 in 1930)
......................... 2.2.2 Steven Mack (age 16 in 1930)
......................... 2.2.3 Andrew J. Mack (age 13 in 1930)
......................... 2.2.4 Catherine Mack (age 11 in 1930)
......................... 2.2.5 Patrick Mack (age 9 in 1930)

............ 2.3 Michael McNamara, of Derryfadda, baptized 16 May 1875; sponsors John Rodgers, Nancy Boland. No sign of this Michael McNamara in the Irish or American records as of yet.

............ 2.4 Eliza McNamara, of Derryfadda, baptized 25 July 1880; sponsors John Corry, Mary O'Dea. Eliza McNamara, age 23, arrived in NYC on SS Oceanic on 12 October 1904, to uncle John Rodgers at 1129 Rush Street, Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, PA. Married Matthew Carmody, son of Patrick Carmody and Bridget Correy.
......................... 2.4.1 Francis Patrick Carmody (17 March 1919 in Avalon, PA)

............ 2.5 Bridget McNamara was born at Derryfadda on 20 May 1883 per Tulla district civil registration. Della McNamara, age 18, reported as being from County Limerick, was on the ship Etruria arriving in New York on 5 May 1901; her American contact was her brother Thomas McNamara of 3350 Penn Avenue, Pittsburgh. She was traveling with her future husband, Andrew Rogers, age 20, a blacksmith, going to sister Maggie Rogers of Pittsburgh. Della McNamara had returned to Ireland and was on the SS Campania going to Pittsburgh in 1907 with cousin Mary McNamara of Washington DC; American contact was Aunt Mrs. O'Donnell in New York (see discussion on page 19). Married to Andrew Aloysius Rodgers (born 23 June 1881 in Scariff, son of Michael Rodgers and Bridget Minogue) in Pittsburgh. Andrew Rodgers fought with the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI; family was living in Buffalo, New York in 1920.
......................... 2.5.1 Andrew Mack Rodgers (14 September 1909 in Pittsburgh)
......................... 2.5.2 Earl Martin Rodgers (29 September 1911 in Pittsburgh)

............ 2.6 Winifred McNamara (age 14 in 1901) <Derryfodda, House 5, House 1>. Winifred McNamara, of Derryfadda, age 32, daughter of Patrick McNamara, married Patrick McNamara, of Knocknahanee, age 33, son of Patrick McNamara, at Killanena Church on 12 February 1918; witnesses Martin Coolleen, Kathleen Brett. Winifred McNamara, married, age 67 years, died at Knocknahanee, on 25 May 1946; informant Patrick McNamara.
......................... 2.6.1 Mary Ellen McNamara, baptized 19 May 1919, Knocknahanee.

............ 2.7 Patrick McNamara (age 12 in 1901) <Derryfodda, House 5, House 1> Patrick McNamara of Derryfodda, son of Patrick McNamara, married Anne Moroney, of Leighort Feakle, daughter of Michael Moroney [and Catherine Doyle Moroney], at Feakle Catholic Church on 13 February 1917, witnesses Martin McNamara and Kate Farrell. Annie Moroney McNamara, age 42, died on 19 January 1928 at Derryfadda. Patrick was informant listed on 1916 death record for his father, and January 1928 death records for his mother and wife.

............ 2.8 Martin Joseph McNamara (age 10 in 1901) <Derryfodda, House 5, x> Arrived in New York on the Adriatic on 28 April 1910, father Patrick McNamara, going to sister Elizabeth McNamara of Pittsburgh. Traveling with John J Rodgers of Scariff and Mary Minogue of Feakle who were also going to relatives in Pittsburgh. During WWI, Martin McNamara had enlisted in May 1918 and served overseas between May 1918 and September 1919. According to WWI service and compensation records: "'Co C 315 M G Bn to Apr 21/19; 291 Co MPC to July 17/19; 205 Co 103 Bn MPC to discharge." Engagements: "Artois Sestor", possibly Artois sector on the Western Front in Belgium. Honorably discharged at Camp Dix, New Jersey on 3 September 1919. Living with sister Elizabeth Carmody in 1920 Census. Married Catherine O'Malley; five children.

............ 2.9 Unknown McNamara (in 1911, parents reported 9 children, 8 living)

3.0 John Rodgers, of "Glonn(?)", baptized on 16 February 1858; sponsors Pat McMahon and Mary Broderick. Appears to have died in infancy.

4.0 John Rodgers, of Dromin, baptized on 3 February 1859; sponsors Pat McMahon and Mary Broderick. John Rodgers, age 23, single, born in County Clare was living in Holyhead, Wales in the 1881 Census for Wales, and working as a "Platelayer (Railway)". Later in 1881 or in 1882, John Rodgers married Mary E. Stewart, born in Londonderry. With their two children, Patrick and Mary, both born in Wales, the Rodgers family arrived from Liverpool to New York on the ship Oregon on 29 September 1884. John Rodgers was living on Rush Street in Pittsburgh in 1908 when he filed a declaration of intent to become a USA citizen; his last foreign address was reported as Holyland [Holyhead], Wales. His niece, Eliza McNamara arrived in 1904 and gave John Rodgers of Rush Street as her American contact. John Rodgers died on 15 December 1935 in Pittsburgh; the death certificate was completed by his son Michael, who knew his grandfather was named "Michael Rodgers" but both grandmother and where born in Ireland were reported as "unknown".

............ 4.1 Patrick T. Rodgers, born in Wales on 16 March 1883, per Pennsylvania 1912 death certificate. Arrived in New York from Liverpool with parents and younger sister on ship Oregon on 29 September 1884. "Patrick Rodgers, a young boy convicted of the larceny of some goods was sent to the Huntington reform school" (The Pittsburgh Press, 6 May 1899). Patrick Rodgers (#3003) was born 17 March 1883, in Ireland, per the 1899 register for the Pennsylvania Industrial Reformatory at Huntington, PA. Patrick Rodgers was working as a brakeman on the B & O railroad tracks, when on 19 January 1912, his body was found near the Thirty-third street bridge that crosses the Allegheny River.

............ 4.2 Mary E. Rodgers, born in Wales on 13 February 1884, per father's 1913 federal naturalization record. Arrived in New York from Liverpool with parents and older brother on ship Oregon on 29 September 1884. In 1900 living with parents and reported as born in Wales. Per death certificate, born 13 February 1885 (should be 1884, when family lived in Wales), in Pennsylvania (should be Wales), parents as above, died 2 November 1939; informant sister Mrs. Winifred Haerlen.

............ 4.3 Winifred Rodgers, born in Pittsburgh on 30 December 1885, per father's 1913 federal naturalization record. Married Christian Haerlen. In the 1930 census, Winifred was a widow living at Morrison Avenue in Pittsburgh with daughter Nancy, parents, and three younger brothers.
......................... 4.3.1 Nancy Haerlen (age 9 in PA 1930 census)

............ 4.4 George Andrew Rodgers, born in Pittsburgh on 31 July 1889. During WWI, George Rodgers enlisted in May 1918 and was stationed at Camp Humpries in Virginia with the 4th Engineer Training Regiment. He was in France with the 8th Co. Transportation Corps between July 1918 and July 1919. Honorably discharged at Camp Dix, New Jersey on 22 July 1919.

............ 4.5 Michael J Rodgers, born in Pittsburgh on 1 June 1894. During WWI, Michael Rodgers enlisted in April 1918 and fought overseas with the 80th Division, Co A, 305th "Am Tn" between June 1918 and June 1919. Engagements: Meusse Argonne Offensive. Honorably discharged at Camp Dix, New Jersey on 10 June 1919.

............ 4.6 Sarah "Sadie" Rodgers, born in Pittsburgh on 11 December 1896.

............ 4.7 Joseph F Rodgers, born in Pittsburgh on 21 September 1900. During WWI, Joseph Rodgers enlisted in July 1918 at Columbus Barracks in Ohio. "Tr D 301 Cav to Aug 25/1918; Btry D 46 Artillery to discharge". Did not go overseas. Honorably discharged at Columbus, Ohio on 14 March 1919.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi Jimbo

That’s a huge amount of work you have done on the Rogers family of Drummin, Feakle. And you succeeded in unravelling a tangle of McNamaras. I’ve been reading it with interest, especially as I remembered Della McNamara, who was described as a cousin of Mary McNamara in the ships manifest in 1907, and I remember wondering who she was and where she fitted in.
Jimbo, I don't know if you noticed that there are large gaps in the Caher Feakle baptisms in the early 1840s. When I submitted the transcription in Jul 2017, I mentioned that 1846 is the only complete pre-famine year: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6898. If you look at the transcription of the baptisms by date, the large gaps in the other years become apparent.Those gaps might explain the lack of baptism records for some of the children of Michael Rogers and Winifred Nee.

Yes, I agree that Michael is most likely a son of the Thomas Rogers who is shown in Drummin in Griffiths Valuation, although there is no record of Michael’s baptism. As you say, Michal was born about 1816 - long before the start of the Caher Feakle baptism records (1842).


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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Thu May 07, 2020 11:27 pm

Hi Sheila,

Thank you for your feedback and especially for all your hard work in continuing to transcribe the Clare baptism and marriage records. My efforts with the Rodgers of Drummin family tree was rather easy in comparison to your work. And tracing Irish immigrants forward from Ireland to the USA is exponentially easier than tracing back from the USA to Ireland. Especially for the descendants of the Thomas Mack family of Pittsburgh, since he arrived prior to 1892 when shipping records provided no specific place of origin it would be quite difficult. John Rodgers and Mary Stewart of Wales/Pittsburgh had only one known grandchild, possibly more if daughter Sarah married, the three sons who were WWI veterans did not marry. The descendants of their one granddaughter Nancy Haerlen Eisenreich would be mostly of German ancestry and the reputation of Irish records is so poor that they would be unlikely to even make the attempt. Sorting out the Rodgers of Pittsburgh is difficult enough let alone tracing their ancestors back to Wales and then to Drummin townland.

Thanks also for the comment on large gaps in pre-famine baptisms in the Caher Feakle records. Yes, this is the likely explanation for the large gaps between children for Michael Rodgers and Winifred Nee. And with regards to the Caher Feakle baptism records, the 1870's also appear to have several missing pages or entries for the following periods (give or take a week):

(1) 12 May 1872 to 20 Aug 1872; (2) 13 April 1874 to 28 Aug 1874; and possibly (3) 28 Sept 1870 to 3 Nov 1870, although a short period.

I first had my suspicions on this when researching the children of James McNamara and Anne Rodgers of Cloonagro townland (see page 11) that appeared to have several missing baptism records. And with subsequent research of other families and comparing to the 1901 census and civil birth records, has led me to believe that there are these more recent gaps in the Caher Feakle records, in addition to the pre-famine period that has been noted.

Thomas Mack and Catherine Lyden of Pittsburgh had a large gap between their marriage in 1902 and their son Thomas Mack who was 20 years old in 1930, so born about 1910. A bit suspect, so had a look at the Pittburgh records and found in the 1910 census that Thomas and Catherine Mack reported that they were the parents of five children, two living: Catherine (age 2) and Thomas (infant). Catherine Mack was born 9 January 1907 and died on 20 January 1911. So they had four children prior to their son Thomas born about 1910.

Was surprised how common of a surname Rodgers was in Pittsburgh. In the 1910 City Directory there were about 200 Rodgers and 100 Rogers listed. With so many Rodgers it is easy to confuse who is who. On the website is the headstone for Thomas M Rodgers, son of Thomas Rodgers and Kate Noone of Drummin, who died in Pittsburgh in 1955. The contributor has assumed that the Thomas J Rodgers (1857 - 1931) buried in the same cemetery was his father. Although consistent with the father's name reported on his 1955 death certificate, we know that Thomas Rodgers, Sr., died in Drummin in 1929. ... -m-rodgers

The Thomas J. Rodgers (1857 - 1931) was born in Pittsburgh the youngest of 12 children of James Rodgers and Grace O'Donnell who were married at St. Paul's Catholic Church in Pittsburgh all the way back in 1835. The parents were Irish born but there is no record of them being from County Clare.

And not all the Rodgers in Pittsburgh had Irish ancestry. The Pittsburgh family of Matthew Rodgers (1842 - 1911) was from Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales. And unlike John Rodgers of Drummin who lived in Wales for only about five years, this Rodgers family was truly Welsh.

From Scariff, County Clare several children of Timothy Rodgers and Bridget Bane as well as Michael Rodgers and Bridget Minogue settled in Pittsburgh. Since Bridget McNamara of Drummin, daughter of Patrick McNamara and Bridget Rodgers, married Andrew Rodgers, son of Timothy Rodgers and Bridget Bane, it is doubtful that the Rodgers of Drummin townland and Rodgers of Scariff townland were as closely related as first cousins, but marrying your second cousin appears to have been not uncommon back in the day.

At the baptism of Mary McNamara (2.1 in above family tree), the daughter of Patrick McNamara and Bridget Rodgers, in Derryfadda in 1871, the baptism sponsors were Martin and Eliza Rodgers. Could they be children of Michael Rodgers and Winifred Nee whose baptism was in the Caher Feakle baptism period that had large gaps in reporting?

In the 1900 Census for Pittsburgh there was a 52 year old Martin Rodgers living on Rail Road Street with his wife Hannah Rodgers (age 44). Four of their six children were born in Ireland, the youngest two in the USA. Their Irish born son was named "Tim" which was common among the Rodgers of Tulla and Feakle. Michael Rodgers arrived in the USA in 1888; his wife and four children arrived in 1889:

While very promising, by the 1910 Census for Pittsburgh, "Martin Rodgers" name was corrected to "Michael Rodgers". Per excellent Pennsylvania death records, Michael Rodgers, born 17 August 1849, son of Timothy Rodgers and Kate Sullivan, died in Pittsburgh on 2 November 1913. I had a look at the Irish civil birth records for his son "Tim" who was 17 years old in 1900. While 3 out of 4 results were indeed from Scariff or Tulla, this Timothy Rodgers was born on 19 July 1882 in Listarkin, Myross in the registrar's district of Skibbereen, County Cork, the son of Michael Rogers and Hannah McCarthy. Michael Rogers, age 30, of Union Hall, son of Timothy Rogers, married Hannah McCarthy, age 25, of Union Hall, daughter of John McCarthy, on 15 January 1880, at the RC Chapel at Castle Townsend, in the Registrar's District of Union Hall, in the Union of Skibbereen, in County Cork. Michael Roger's occupation was "soldier" on the 1880 marriage record. There was still an opportunity that Michael Rogers could have been born in County Clare and was stationed in Cork as a soldier where he married Hannah McCarthy — to be thorough it was definitely worth a look for further evidence. But alas, it appears that Michael Rodgers married the girl next door. His father, Timothy Rodgers had a house and garden, plot 1b, in Listarkin townland in 1855 Griffiths Valuation; lessor William Louth. Timothy Rodgers, age 79, laborer, died in Listarkin, Myross, on 22 January 1892; informant wife Kate Rodgers of Listarkin. In the 1901 Irish Census, Catherine Rogers, age 84, widow is living in House 12 in Listarkin, Myross which is just a short distance from Skibbereen. ... n/1157751/

I wonder why Michael Rodgers left Ireland in 1888? Sheila, the young Tim Rodgers in Pittsburgh, who was only about 7 years old when he left Ireland in 1889, would later ask his father this same question. The amazing exchange between father and son can still be heard sung in the Irish pubs of Pittsburgh to this day:

Oh father dear, I oft-times hear you speak of Erin's isle
Her lofty scenes, her valleys green, her mountains rude and wild
They say she is a lovely land wherein a prince might dwell
Then why did you abandon her, the reason to me tell.

My son, I loved my native land with energy and pride
Till a blight came o'er all my crops; my sheep and cattle died
My rent and taxes were so high, I could not them redeem
And that's the cruel reason why I left old Skibbereen. ... rt_radio=1

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:22 am

The song "Skibbereen" was used in the British television series "Victoria" in the final scenes of their episode dealing with the Great Famine in Ireland. Sung by Camille O'Sullivan, the song starts after the 1 minute mark:

What I found most interesting about this short clip was the funeral scene. Back in 2015, whether or not women attended funerals in Ireland was one of the more contentious discussions on the Clare Past Forum and nearly derailed the discussion of the Grogan and Quinlivan families of Kilrush:


Most of those attending the funeral from Victoria were women. This episode "Faith, Hope & Charity" was from season 2, and originally aired in October 2017. I recall back in 2015 searching the internet for information on funeral processions in Ireland, and every discussion was on Irish traditions related to wakes, but not on the funeral procession or burial customs. Evidently the creators of Victoria never read our discussions on the Clare Past Forum that concluded that women in the 19th century were unlikely to have attended funerals!

The funeral was for the Reverend Dr. Traill who indeed died of fever in Sibbereen in 1847. The communications between the Rev. Traill and Queen Victoria were fictionalized, but the events were otherwise historically accurate. Surprisingly, the creator/producer of Victoria, Daisy Goodwin, is the great great great granddaughter of the Rev. Dr. Traill. I checked the Irish and British newspapers archives for the funeral report for the Rev. Traill, and found news of his death, but no funeral report. With disease sweeping the Sibbereen countryside, perhaps there was no large public funeral ceremony?
DEATH OF THE REV. DR. TRAILL, OF SCHULL — We never made an announcement with more pain. There is not a corner of the country — we believe we might add nor of the kingdom, in which it will not be read with regret, for there is not a corner of the kingdom in which the name of Dr. Traill has not been associated with services and sacrifices as noble as any that ever closed the career of a self-denying disciple of his Master. Never, we believe, were body and spirit more completely surrendered to the work which these dismal days was given him to do. Freely and fervently he threw himself into it and when exhaustion compelled for a season the partner of his toils and trials to withdraw with her family from a place in which the soul was sickened by the sore sorrow of the people, and the frame enfeebled by unavailing efforts to relieve them, he allowed himself neither rest nor respite, but continued with unabated energy the same disinterested devotedness of purse and person with which he had laboured from the beginning to keep life in the population of the desolate district in which his lot was cast. He is gone, however. The disease which swept so many of his parishioners into eternity has not spared him; and at a quarter to four o'clock yesterday morning, sustained by Him who he was and whom he served, and in 'sure and certain hope of glorious resurrection unto everlasting life,' his spirit was committed to God. Cork Constitution

The Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 24 April, 1847
The British newspapers copied the Cork Constitution death announcement and also gave reports of mass emigration from Ireland. The Standard newspaper highlighted that it was the farming class which left, which made things worse for the laboring class who remained in Ireland. Not sure how the below report could know about the "sums of money" anyone left Ireland with:
Emigration continues from all the principal sea-ports in Ireland. Already the consequences of so many farmers leaving particular localities — carrying with them considerable sums of money, and throwing labourers out of employment — are telling seriously on those who are doomed to remain behind. But too many of these persons are going off with several gales of rent in their pockets, and their land exhausted.

The Standard, London, 26 April 1847
While The Times newspaper quoted the Cork Examiner that stated that it was the prosperous laboring classes who were emigrating to America:
Emigration from this pestilence-stricken quarter proceeds at a rapid pace.

"Still," says the [Cork] Examiner, "are our quays thronged, and still the busy note of preparation resounds along them. It would seem as if the rural population of all Munster had assembled in our city, preparatory to their bidding an eternal farewell to the land of their fathers and affections. Every day, every tide bears upon its bosom the hardy sons of toil and industry, destined to be the settlers in, and reclaimers of the vast forests and interminable prairies of the new world. The bark Mail, of Liverpool, sailed by this morning's tide (11 o'clock) from Merchant's quay, having on board upwards of 400 emigrants, all members of the 'well to do' labouring class, bound for the United States; and there are fewer than half a dozen other vessels of great capacity and accommodation preparing to start on the first opportunity. If matters go on this way, when between the departure for the New World and the 'world of spirits' — caused by famine and pestilence — we shall have things brought to such a condition that our paternal legislators, first having made a wilderness, will be able to proclaim it 'peace;' and so the Irish difficulty is surmounted."

The Times, London, 26 April 1847
Many of the Irish born who fought in the American Civil War may have arrived as famine immigrants in the late 1840's, but I don't believe the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree was among them. His sister Elizabeth McNamara Hornbeck of Wawarsing, NY was age 26 in the 1860 census with a 7 year old daughter. I suspect she left Ireland as a young adult without her parents about 1851. Their sister Mary/Johanna McNamara married James Madigan in 1860 in Tulla Parish. It would be unlikely that the McNamara parents came to America with either Elizabeth or Thomas and left their younger daughter behind in Ireland. Similar to Elizabeth, I reckon it most likely that Thomas McNamara of Glandree came to America as a young adult sometime in the 1850's.

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:50 am


(From Our Own Reporter)
Rathkeale, Wednesday Night [22 October 1845]

At half-past ten o'clock this morning the Liberator, accompanied by Dr. Gray, Joseph H. Dunne, jun., Esq, Edward Walsh, Esq., and Maurice Lenihan, Esq., proprietor and editor of the Tipperary Vindicator, left Limerick for Rathkeale. As he journeyed onwards he received repeated proofs of the high veneration in which he is held by his warm and true-hearted countrymen, and of their unswerving devotion to the Repeal cause. Within a few miles of Rathkeale he was met by a considerable body of men, headed by their clergyman, and each carrying a wand, on the top of which was displayed his Repeal card, surmounted by laurel leaves. This division of Repealers drew up at the side of the road to permit the carriage to pass, and cheered as it moved onwards. At half past one o'clock the Liberator arrived in Rathkeale, and on making his appearance was loudly cheered by the people who crowded the streets. The houses were decorated with evergreens, and triumphal arches were erected in various parts of the town. An arch erected at the entrance of the town bore the following inscription:—"Beloved Liberator of Old Erin, Rathkeale bids thee welcome." A very beautiful arch spanned the street in the centre of the town, on which was inscribed—"Hurra for Repeal!—No Compromise!—No Surrender!" On another arch was displayed the following inscription—"A nation of nine millions is too great to be dragged to the tail of any other nation." At the entrance to the town, on the road by which Mr. O'Brien was to enter, a very splendid arch was erected, and on it the following lines were displayed:—

We hail with joy the day that brings
The offspring of our Irish kings.

The Liberator [Daniel O'Connell] passed on through Rathkeale to meet Mr. S. O'Brien, and accompanied him into town. Within half a mile of Mr. O'Brien's residence the head of the procession became visible, and with its numerous and gorgeous banners presented a really splendid spectacle. It covered a mile of the road, and moved along in the most perfect order. It was preceded by the Repeal bands of the locality, and embraced within its ranks at least on thousand horsemen, and several vehicles. Many of the persons engaged in this demonstration carried white wands, on which were displayed their Repeal cards. At this point of the road the banner bearers halted, and opened their ranks, through which the Liberator's carriage passed. Here the hon. gentleman met Mr. S. O'Brien, and took a seat in his carriage. The procession then moved on to its destination. The patriotic trades of Limerick, with their splendid banners, occupied a prominent position in its ranks, and marched in the following order:—(list of trades)

Ere the procession reached Rathkeale it numbers were momentarily increased, and on entering the town its extent was further enlarged by its junction with the vast multitudes of persons who thronged the streets. The procession, on entering the town, proceeded to the Market-square, where it was arranged the meeting should be held. There were from eighty to a hundred thousand persons engaged in this demonstration, which presented all the elements of an effective monster gathering. The windows were filled with ladies, who warmly participated in the spirit-stirring scenes which were enacted before them.


The meeting was held in the Market-square, where a platform was erected. When the Liberator and Mr. Smith O'Brien arrived, the chair was taken by Counsellor Ferguson.

Amongst the gentlemen on the platform we noticed the following:—

William Smith O'Brien, M P; Doctor Gray, Robert Ferguson, Barrister-at-Law; John Ferguson, Solicitor; Mortimer McCoy, Solicitor; Very Reverend M Collins, P P Shanagolden; Alderman Ryan, Reverend Mr Lyons, OSA; Rev Henry Fitzgibbons, P P Ashford; Mathew O'Flaherty, Donovan Castle; Rev Daniel Synan, C C Rathkeale; Stephen Hayes, Rev Mr Doyle, C C Askenton; Michael Ryan, Bruree Lodge; Rev James Ryan, P P Rock Hill; Rev Mr. Leahy, C C Adare; Town Councillors Nicholas Kelly, John McNamara, E Browne, Joseph Kennedy, Very Rev Mr Foley, P P Stone Hall; John Costello, Rathkeale; Joseph Hannan, Mount St. Laurence; Rev Mr Curran, P P Askeaton, &c. &c.

[very long speeches by the chairman, William Smith O'Brien, and Daniel O'Connell, followed by a brief address by the Rev. Dr. Gray.]


The Banquet was given in the Thomas street Temperance Hall, a small and inconvenient building, not at all calculated to accommodate one-third the number of persons who applied for tickets. A gallery was erected for ladies, and was crowded by fair occupants, who evinced throughout the night the greatest interest in the truly gratifying proceedings. At half-past six o'clock the Rev. Daniel Synan, C.C., Rathkeale, took the chair. On his right sat the honoured guest of the evening, W.S. O'Brien, Esq., M.P., Dean Coll, Caleb Powel, Esq. M.P., James Kelly, Esq. M.P. On his left the Liberator, Archdeacon Fitzgerald, John O'Brien, Esq., M.P., the Mayor of Limerick, &c &c.

The following members of the 82 Club appeared in uniform:—W.S. O'Brien, the Mayor of Limerick, James Kelly, M.P., Edward Walshe, J.H. Dunne, jun., Dr. Gray, Nicholas Kelly, Councillor Devitt, J.R. Browne, F.J. O'Neil, John F. Raleigh, Maurice Lenihan, Michael Ryan, John Fergusson, Robert Fergusson. The members of the Limerick corporation wore their robes of office.

[grace was said, letter of apology, toasts to Queen Victoria, Prince Albert, and the Royal Family; toast to William Smith O'Brien followed by a very long speech; toast to Daniel O'Connell followed by a very long speech; ending with speeches by James Kelly, M P, and the Mayor of Limerick.]

The Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 25 October 1845
Nicholas Kelly was the Limerick Town Councillor of Patrick Street Ward from 1841 to 1845. On 15 June 1834, Nicholas Kelly had married Catherine Bowles at Nenagh, County Tipperary. Per the Nenagh parish register, the priest who performed the marriage was the Reverend Ambrose O'Connor, the uncle of the bride Catherine Bowles. Her brothers were the Rev. Ambrose Bowles, and John Bowles (married to Margaret Maloney) of Glandree. Catherine Bowles Kelly was the aunt of the Rev. James Bowles (1811 - 1881) and John Bowles (married to Ellen Foley). Catherine Bowles Kelly was the great aunt of Margaret Bowles McNamara of Glandree and Henry Bowles of Pittsburgh.

The 1834 marriage record for Catherine Bowles would not state her parents, but we know she was the brother of the Rev. Ambrose Bowles due to the 1846 announcement of his drowning at Lahinch:
The presentation to the union of Kilbarron and Terryglass, near Borrisokane, vacant by the death at Lahinch, by drowning, of the Rev. Ambrose Bowles, brother-in-law of the late Mr. Nicholas Kelly, of this city, Town Councillor, is in the gift of the Right Rev. Dr. Kennedy - Limerick Chronicle
The Freeman's Journal, Dublin, 4 September 1846
The husband of Catherine Bowles in 1846 was referred to as "the late Mr. Nicholas Kelly." From the Limerick Library, obituary collection:
Nicholas Kelly, Robert Street, Limerick Chronicle 12 November 1845, died of fever contracted at the late Rathkeale Repeal banquet, town councillor, proprieter of coal & iron concern in Limerick, buried at St. Munchin's Church.
Not sure if the death of Nicholas Kelly of fever contracted at the Repeal banquet would be considered a famine related death. The timing of the banquet was on 22 October 1845, so might be too early? The potato crop had failed by then, but "the consequences of a potato failure are not immediate: 'The first effect of the disease is not scarcity, but plenty, owing to the people's anxiety to dispose of their potatoes before they become useless.' It was not until five or six months after a failure that famine began .... On October 27, 1845, Sir James Graham, the Home Secretary, wrote to Peel: 'The extreme pressure from want will not take place until the month of April or May.' [The Great Hunger, by Cecil Woodham-Smith]. Anyways, Nicholas Kelly was a wealthy man and had no risk of starvation, only of disease. He was a member of the "The '82 Club" and researching this led me to The Great Shame by Thomas Keneally which also went into graphic detail (page 109) about how Black Fever and Yellow Fever (combined known as "Famine Fever") are transmitted by lice infected with bacteria. And that "clergy [such as the Rev. Dr. Traill], nuns and doctors who tended fever patients, handled their tattered clothing, comforted them with a hand to wrist, shoulder or forehead, readily became victims". There would have definitely been a risk in attending large repeal demonstrations during this period.

The Bowles family of Tulla Parish, with several members in the priesthood, and Catherine Bowles marrying Nicholas Kelly who became a Limerick Town Councillor, appears to have been fairly prominent. We know very little about the family of the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree. And I had always assumed they would be of the farming class or perhaps even poorer since they don't appear in Glandree on the 1855 Griffith Valuation. What we do know is that Elizabeth McNamara, the sister of Thomas McNamara, married a very wealthy New Yorker. Not the typical Irish immigrant experience. I had always assumed as a widower with two young children, that John Hornbeck was a little desperate and married a poor Irish domestic servant. But perhaps, similar to Catherine Bowles, the family of the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree wasn't that poor?

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Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:28 am

Hi Jimbo

You’ve done very good work there on the Bowles family. I was being sceptical as to how you decided that Catherine Bowles was a sister of Rev. Ambrose Bowles until I saw that you had found plenty of conclusive evidence.

The description of O’Connell’s entry into Rathkeale in 1845 reminded me of the prologue to The Great Famine, by Ciarán Ó Murchadha (Bloomsbury, 2011), which is included in the preview of the book (online). In the last two paragraphs we are suddenly dropped from the joyous festivities of June 1843 into the start of a disaster. It is a brilliant prologue: ... &q&f=false

Your posting also reminded me of the painting by Joseph Patrick Haverty, "The Monster Meeting in Clifden in 1843": http://onlinecollection.nationalgallery ... 427d&idx=8

Jimbo, I agree that the McNamara family, that the missing Thomas came from, might have been not very poor at all, and it’s possible that Mary/Johanna’s marriage to James Madigan was not what her family would have chosen for her, but I’m doubting that Elizabeth McNamara was well-off enough to have been considered a suitable bride for J. D. Hoornbeck of Wawarsing. I suspect that she was not considered a very suitable bride, given the prejudice against Irish Catholics – unless, maybe, she was no longer a Catholic – that might have helped. I’m thinking of what you wrote on page 3:
In the 1850 New York federal census, the widower John Hornbeck (age 40) is living in Wawarsing with son Daniel (age 5), daughter Mary (age 3), parents Daniel and Jane Hornbeck as well as his younger sister Gertrude (age 18) who is most likely looking after the young children. His father Daniel Hornbeck died on 25 July 1851 with just a brief announcement in the Christian Intelligencer newspaper. When the grandfather Johannes Hoornbeck died in 1844 the lengthy obituary in the Christian Intelligencer highlighted that he was a member of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of Wawarsing, and "had repeatedly sustained the solemn and important relation of spiritual ruler in that house of God. At the time of his death he was associated with the acting eldership there. In his decease, his family, and the church of which he was a member, have lost a venerable father, and a discreet counselor".

The widower John Hornbeck likely married the sister of the missing Thomas McNamara not long after the death of his father Daniel Hornbeck in 1851. America in the 1850's was very anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant. So what would the very religious Hornbeck family think about John Hornbeck marrying an Irish Catholic?

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