Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Genealogy, Archaeology, History, Heritage & Folklore

Moderators: Clare Support, Clare Past Mod

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sat May 19, 2018 4:08 am

Thanks, Sharon for your feedback and continued interest. I didn't actively pursue any of the sponsor names that you mentioned, but did stumble upon the surname McDole in my below research (Sheila, thanks as always for your transcriptions making this possible):

A) James Madigan (the future husband of Mary McNamara) was baptized in Tulla on 12 April 1841, parents James Mangan and Margaret Costelloe. The 1871 Barnsley census stating his birth as County Limerick was incorrect. An elder brother also named James born in 1835 must have died sometime prior to 1841. Had James Madigan been baptized only a few weeks later in May 1841, this would have been recorded on the baptism page missing from the Tulla register. If this had been the case, I would have assumed that James consistently lied about his age in the Barnsley census records by six years. Sheila, perhaps we need to revisit some of my conclusions from your analysis of McNamara men on the 1901 / 1911 census who appear to have understated their ages by 10 years or so!

B/C) At the marriage of James Madigan and Mary McNamara the witnesses were Andrew McNamara and Thomas Brennan. Andrew was most likely either the son of Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara of Glandree born in 1835; or the son of Martin McNamara and Bridget Foley of Gladree born in 1843. The senior Andrew McNamara, his wife Bridget, and Martin McNamara are likely siblings of the various other McNamara's on my listing of five Thomas McNamara's of Glandree. It would be difficult to sort them all out.

D) Who was the missing Civil War soldier from Glandree? I believe most likely either Thomas Mac #2 (son of John McNamara and Mary Kelly) or Thomas Mac #4 (son of Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara). The missing soldier had at least two sisters: one in Wawarsing and one in Barnsley. Both Thomas Mac #2 and Thomas Mac #4 had a sister named Johana. Like a simple sudoku puzzle, it would be helpful to eliminate one of them as a possibility. This might be done by determining who was the father of Johanna McNamara of Glandree who married Denis Cooney on 5 February 1856 and had eight children together. Johana was a common name in Glandree and her father could be John McNamara (Tom Mac#2), Michael McNamara (Tom Mac #4), Thomas McNamara (Tom Mac #5, daughter Judy), as well as Andrew McNamara (which would not be helpful at all). Dennis Coony is living as a widower with three of his sons in the 1901 Irish Census here:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000489670/

E) The various sisters named "Johana" were most likely named after their Aunt. So who was this Aunt Johana McNamara? A Johana Mac and Michael McDole of Glandree had at least five children from 1831 to 1844 (perhaps more in 1841 and 1843?) in the Tulla baptism register. McDole sounded familiar, but I was unable to find this surname (or my guesses for alternative spellings) on any 1901 / 1911 Irish census searches which require exact spellings.

In a search for what happened to the McDoles on ancestry.com, I did stumble upon a John McDaul born in 1827 in County Clare on the 1871 England census (see below). This McDaul family was living in Barnsley, Yorkshire and John's occupation was a shoemaker employing 4 men. Of course, I assumed that this John was a child of Michael McDole and Johanna McNamara not recorded on the Tulla baptism register. I then went on to find John as a shoemaker living in Barnsley as "McDowal" in 1851 and "McDoul" in 1861. Was it through a family connection with the McDoles that James Madigan & his wife Mary McNamara had moved to Barnsley? Was James Madigan one of the 4 men employed by the shoemaker John McDaul in 1871?

It was only later that I found the well documented family tree created by Tom McDowell, a frequent contributor to this forum and library. Turns out that John McDowell of Barnsley was the son of John McDowell (mother unknown) who died in Feakle and not Michael McDole of Glandree. Possibly the two men were brothers? This connection has not been made on the Tom McDowell family tree so further evidence is probably lacking.

The timing of when the Madigan family moved to Barnsley is between January 1863 (baptism of their son Patrick in Tulla) and June 1866 (baptism of daughter Johana at Holy Rood in Barnsley). Their move to Barnsley could have possibly been related to a booming economy in England associated with the American Civil War. Great Britain was neutral during the American Civil War and would trade with both the North and the South. The Southern Confederate economy was primarily cotton and lacking the factories of the North required foreign trade with Great Britain for military supplies. Below is a record of military supplies that reached Southern ports (through a Northern blockade) from November 1863 to December 1864 which included 545,000 pairs of boots and shoes.

Did the increased demand for shoes lead James Madigan to move his family from Tulla to Barnsley and become a journeyman shoemaker? And what about Mary McNamara Madigan who paid for newspaper advertisements in both 1869 and 1879 searching for her missing brother Thomas who fought for the North? Was her relentless search due to feeling guilt over her family's role as shoemakers in Yorkshire who directly supported the Southern Confederate war efforts?
Attachments
Thomas McNamara of Glandree still missing from American Civil War.jpg
Thomas McNamara of Glandree still missing from American Civil War.jpg (300.99 KiB) Viewed 111521 times
John McDaul family 1871 Census Barnsley Yorkshire, shoemaker employing four men.jpg
John McDaul family 1871 Census Barnsley Yorkshire, shoemaker employing four men.jpg (111.27 KiB) Viewed 111521 times
The War of the Rebellion, Official Records IV Blockade Runners, Volume 3, page 930.jpg
The War of the Rebellion, Official Records IV Blockade Runners, Volume 3, page 930.jpg (138.49 KiB) Viewed 111521 times

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by smcarberry » Sat May 19, 2018 10:50 am

Following up on my theme of digging out English records, attached are the ones available for the Madigan family in Barnsley District. You will see little Patrick's death in 1866, his father James's death in 1896. and grandmother(?) Mary in 1905. There is a long line of these BDMs on file in that district, indicating that a search for the most recent (likely) descendant [edited for privacy] can be successful [edited for privacy]. There would not only be government registrations, but also church records and newspaper items. I await the results of those. Here's the link to the search page: https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Jimbo, would you mind stating what your relationship is to the McNamara family you are researching ? With that info in hand, I would feel better about chasing down church records in Ulster County NY.

SMC
Madigan dths, Barnsley Dist., from 1850.JPG
Madigan dths, Barnsley Dist., from 1850.JPG (53.16 KiB) Viewed 111504 times
Madigan BDMs Barnsley Dist. from 1850.JPG
Madigan BDMs Barnsley Dist. from 1850.JPG (56.54 KiB) Viewed 111504 times
Last edited by smcarberry on Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sun May 20, 2018 6:28 pm

Hi Sharon,
Thanks for your ongoing interest! The death record in Barnsley for Mary Madigan from 1905 has a typo in the transcription and her age at death should be 64 and not 84 years. This is the record for Mary McNamara Madigan of Glandree born in 1841 - most likely baptized on the missing page of the Tulla baptism record. A volunteer on another database has made this correction. I should have mentioned this record in my last post. But it was already too long, and I did not want to highlight the fact that I am too cheap to pay the fee (25 pounds?) for the death record which may or may not list her parents and solve part of the mystery of the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

As far as your directive to me to continue your theme and search the BDM records and awaiting the results? The descendants of either sister (Madigan or Hornbeck) are extremely unlikely to be able to share any information on the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree. It is doubtful they would know he ever existed. For privacy, I am not comfortable tracking down the Madigan descendants on a public forum providing information as your last posting did on deaths and marriages as recent as 1978. I am sure the next generations of Madigan's living in Barnsley have led very interesting lives, but I want to focus my story on Thomas McNamara the missing Civil War soldier from Glandree. My theme is now shoemakers and the next destination will be Stoneham, Massachusetts.

Accordingly, I think it best if you could please delete the information from your last posting. And please it is really not necessary to do any further research in Stueben County chasing down the Hornbeck descendants. I am not related to the McNamara's, but even if I was a distant cousin I wouldn't feel comfortable tracking them down on a public forum. My interest in telling the story of Thomas McNamara is due to a keen interest in the American Civil War with the side benefit of improving my poor knowledge of County Clare. Sharing the stories of the Irish who fought in the American Civil War is no different from the hundreds of biographies of County Clare men and women who fought in WWI that have already been published on this website.

Now, if any descendants have provided a public family tree on a genealogy website, I would of course shoot them a private message. I am sure they would be delighted to learn of a missing Civil War soldier and tracing their ancestors back to County Clare. Whether or not they want to join in a public conversation - it is their personal choice. And if no public family tree is available, the magic of a google search will no doubt lead to this website someday.

In oral storytelling, audience contribution is integral and makes each telling of a story unique. It is no different in telling a story on an internet forum. So I thank you and Sheila very much for your contributions so far in trying to solve the mystery of our missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree and I hope they will continue. The story of Thomas Mack the Civil War veteran from the NY 150th and likely Fenian who invaded Canada from Buffalo was truly enjoyable. Even though upon my further research it turns out that he is not from County Clare! The descendants of the siblings of this Thomas Mack (he never married) have absolutely zero chance of learning his Civil War story due to a name change that is not exactly obvious. I will send these descendants a private note so hopefully they will visit their great grand uncle's grave site in Minnesota this summer (in winter it would be covered in snow). I suspect that they will be Thomas Mack's first relatives to ever have done so.

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by smcarberry » Mon May 21, 2018 9:44 am

I have gone back to my posting on Barnsley District government records, not to delete the birth and death indexed ones since all of those are more than 75 years old, but I did remove the name of the descendant who could be living.

A thread of postings like this one on Thomas McNamara brings to light historical moments of general interest but also illustrates how to use current resources in gen. research. Perhaps someday an actual descendant of Thomas while Googling will run across this thread and receive a huge jump-start on family history in several locations.

SMC

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sat May 26, 2018 9:04 pm

The greatest battle ever fought in the Western Hemisphere began as a clash over shoes. At dawn on July 1st [1863] a Confederate infantry officer led his men to the little crossroads town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Within view of a Lutheran seminary whose high cupola offered a fine prospect of the surrounding farms and rolling hills. There was rumored to be a supply of shoes at Gettysburg and the foot sore rebels were there to commandeer them.

The Civil War, a Film by Ken Burns (Episode Five: The Universe of Battle. Gettysburg, The First Day)
Five hundred miles to the northeast of Gettysburg is the town of Stoneham, Massachusetts just north of Boston. By the 1840's it had earned the nickname of "Shoe Town" as some 300 men and 180 women produced 380,000 pairs of shoes. In the 1855 state census there was a 26 year old Irish born shoemaker by the name of Martin McMarry and his wife Margaret. By the 1860 federal census, the Martin McNemary household would also include 3 year old William and infant James. Martin's occupation was "cordwainer" which is another name for shoemaker. In 1861 Martin McNamara would apply for US naturalization stating that he was born in "Drumclipt", Clare, Ireland in November 1830 and had arrived in New York on 12 August 1845. In 1863 the Stoneham shoemaker Martin McNamara registered for the Civil War draft stating his age as 38 years old (only inconsistency in reporting his age) but does not appear to have fought. Martin McNamara would continue to live in Stoneham until his death on 3 June 1886, occupation shoemaker.

Now if this were a Hollywood movie script, of course the missing Thomas McNamara and shoemaker Martin McNamara would be brothers. Not only that but the shoes worn by the Confederate soldier who killed Thomas McNamara (if this did happen?) would have been made by his shoemaker brother-in-law James Madigan in Yorkshire. American movies can be very melodramatic. But how likely is there to be any true connection between this Martin McNamara and the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree?

Martin McNamara was born in November 1830, the same exact month as Martin son of Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara of Glandree was baptized (Tom Mac #4 family). But would a man born in Glandree ever state his birth as Drumclift? Unfortunately, the Drumclift baptism records only start in 1841. Massachusetts records can be excellent, but Martin McNamara's death record from 1886 does not report his parents. The shoemaker Martin was a famine immigrant arriving in 1845 at the age of 15. If the other children of Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara (whose youngest child was born in 1848) remained in Glandree or left around 1855, how likely is it that one of their sons would immigrate at the young age of 15? Plus, if Martin was the son of Michael McNamara of Glandree and following Irish naming patterns he would not have named his first born son William.

Martin McNamara, shoemaker from County Clare, living in Stoneham Massachusetts in 1855 state, 1860 federal, and 1865 state census reports:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1459985
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1473181
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... T-DZB7-HQ1

As a side note, there is an exciting development for those with Irish ancestors who settled in Massachusetts that was highlighted in the American Ancestors magazine, Winter 2018. The Catholic Archdiocese of Boston has recently agreed to team up with the New England Historic Genealogical Society to create digital images and searchable indexes for their sacramental records to be viewable via AmericanAncestors.org. They will start with the period 1789 to 1900 of their sacramental record collection. This is estimated at nearly 1,000 volumes, approximately 400,000 pages, and 10 million names to be indexed. It would be great if the Catholic Archdioceses of New York and Chicago would start on a similar project!
Attachments
Martin McNamara, Shoemaker, 1855 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg
Martin McNamara, Shoemaker, 1855 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg (57.17 KiB) Viewed 111396 times
Martin McNamara, Cordwainer, 1860 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg
Martin McNamara, Cordwainer, 1860 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg (127.63 KiB) Viewed 111396 times
Martin McNamara, Shoemaker, 1865 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg
Martin McNamara, Shoemaker, 1865 Census Stoneham Massachusetts.jpg (91.05 KiB) Viewed 111396 times

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Sun May 27, 2018 2:45 pm

Hi Jim

Thanks for that interesting bootmaker angle on the Civil War. I know pitifully little about the Civil War – most of what I have being confined to Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin – so I’m pleased to learn a bit more.
About this Martin McNamara born in November (and forgive me if I’m telling you stuff you know well already): St. Martin’s feastday is Nov. 11th and he was a very important saint in Ireland* (and everywhere else I suppose). A great many boys born in November were called Martin. McNamara being such a common name in Clare, there are probably at least a dozen Martin McNamaras born in Nov. 1830. Look at the names given to boys in Tulla in Nov. 1830: out of the 14 baptisms that month, 8 were boys, and five of those were called Martin.

http://irisharchaeology.ie/2016/11/anim ... n-ireland/


Sheila

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Mon May 28, 2018 1:43 am

Hi Sheila, thank you very much. In fact, I was not aware of the St. Martin Feast Day being a factor for naming sons Martin in November. Nor your interesting link about the Irish tradition of killing a bird on St. Martin's Day and making a sign of the cross with its blood on the door of your homes. I realize by always having traveled to Ireland in the summer months, I have missed out on some of the more colorful Irish traditions.

I suppose Thomas McNamara would have been an equally common name in County Clare as Martin McNamara. Thus, Mary McNamara Madigan in Barnsley Yorkshire would also have received false leads in her search for her missing brother. But while we have only been searching for a few months now, Mary was searching for her brother for decades. How could she cope with her guilt and despair at not being able to locate her brother over such a long period? I reckon one of the greatest Irish American storytellers provides the best answer to this question (with surprisingly few edits required):

ALBERT STREET, BARNSLEY, YORKSHIRE (1879)

Mary McNamara Madigan returns to her Albert Street home from the Barnsley Post Office. Once again with no responses to her latest newspaper advertisement requesting information on her missing brother. In complete despair, crying emotionally, she collapses on the floor.

MARY MCNAMARA MADIGAN

But, I must think about it. I must think about it. What is there to do? Oh, what is there that matters?

VOICES OF HER COUNTY CLARE ANCESTORS

(starting off softly in her head, but then growing loud)

You mean to tell me Mary Johanna McNamara that Tulla doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land's the only thing that matters, it's the only thing that lasts ... something that you love better than me though you may not know it, Tulla ...it's this from which you get your strength, the green hills of Tulla? ... why, land's the only thing that matters, it's the only thing that lasts ... something that you love better than me though you may not know it, Tulla ... it's this from which you get your strength, the green hills of Tulla ... why, land's the only thing that matters! something that you love better than me! the green hills of Tulla! Tulla! Tulla! TULLA!

With the spirit of her people who would not know defeat, even when it stared them in the face, she raises her chin.

MARY MCNAMARA MADIGAN

Tulla. Home. I'll go home. And I'll think of some way to get my brother back. After all, tomorrow is another day!

THE END

But not the end of my ongoing search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree. It is too early to throw in the towel, even when towels were handed to me by Sheila over a fortnight ago. My shoe theme has not yet even run its course.

Here is the 2 minute clip on youtube of the ending (spoiler alert) of Gone with the Wind to save anyone from watching the entire four hour Civil War saga. American movies can indeed be a bit melodramatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIRqL689rBI

Credits: "Gone with the Wind" (1939, Selznick International Pictures) based upon the novel "Gone with the Wind" by Margaret Mitchell (MacMillan Publishers, 1936). Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Mon May 28, 2018 2:56 pm

Hi Jim

My own feeling is that Mary was trying to contact Thomas in 1869 either to tell him that one of their parents had died, or to find out if he was alive himself. The deaths of several McNamaras (of a suitable age) were registered in the Tulla Union in 1869, but the images are not available online as yet. When they do become available, I think we may see a death record that will give Glendree as the address and that will show which family she belonged to.
In 1879, the Tulla deaths are to be found under Galway (for some reason that is beyond me). I looked at them, but found no Glendree death. So maybe, at this stage, Mary was just wondering if Thomas himself was still alive.

By the way, the custom of sprinkling blood is no longer practised - not for half a century or more!

Sheila

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Mon May 28, 2018 9:16 pm

Hi Sheila, thanks very much for having a look at the McNamara death records to test out your theory on the timing of Mary McNamara's search for her missing brother.

So the old Irish traditions for St. Martin's Feast Day have gone with the wind? Not too surprising as the sprinkling of blood on doors couldn't have been too hygienic. The strongest traditions are those that can adapt and bow to the inevitable. Not like wheat. But like buckwheat. When a storm comes along it flattens ripe wheat because it's dry and can't bend with the wind. But ripe buckwheat's got sap in it and it bends. And when the wind has passed, it springs up almost as straight and strong as before.

(GWTW, Chapter 40)

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:44 pm

Ordinary Session, held Tuesday April 18, 1662

Pieter van Halen, plaintiff, demands three and one-half schepels of wheat, in payment for a pair of shoes. Warrenaer Horenbeeck, defendant, admits he honestly owes plaintiff the debt. The Commissaries order defendant to pay the amount he is sued for, within a month's time and without further delay.

The Dutch Records of Kingston, Ulster County, 1658 - 1664, New York State Historical Association, by Samuel Oppenheim, 1912
The sister of the missing Thomas McNamara married into the Hornbeck family in Wawarsing that can trace their roots back to the mid 17th century when New York was New Netherlands, a colony of the Dutch Republic. Warnaar, the earliest known ancestor arrived in New Netherlands at least by 1660. A further legal squabble in November 1662 when Warnaar was the plaintiff and requested payment for work done two years prior: "plaintiff demands two hundred guilders, heavy money, a couple of shirts, a pair of stockings, and a pair of shoes as payment for wages earned."

Elizabeth McNamara married John D. Hornbeck about 1852 or so in New York. My theory is that "Elizabeth" was recorded in the Tulla baptism records under a different first name. To see if Elizabeth reported her name differently in any post-marriage records, I searched for any Hornbeck born in Ireland living in New York. Found several Irish born women in different Hornbeck families, so it appears that Elizabeth wasn't the only Irish woman to marry into the Dutch clan. But then was surprised to find numerous Irish born men living and immigrating to America named Hornbeck or a close variation. This was odd. So I searched the Irish 1901 Census and found 89 people named Hornibrook, 19 named Hornebrook, and 12 named Homibrook - mostly all Protestants living in County Cork:

https://tinyurl.com/1901-Irish-Census-Hornibrook

Below is a nice summary of Dutch immigration to Ireland from an unusual source, an article about duck decoys in a gardening magazine:
Dutch immigration to Ireland was encouraged throughout the second half of the seventeenth century. It was hoped these immigrants would bring new skills to the country and act as a "civilizing" Protestant influence on the native Irish. Dutch immigration to Ireland was at its height in two periods: immediately after the Restoration of Charles II in 1660 and on the accession to the throne of William of Orange and his wife, Mary Stuart, daughter of James II, in 1688. The great influence of the Dutch on the design, buildings, planting and appearance of the Irish landscape during the seventeenth century has been noted, though not fully explored. The chief cities of Ireland were greatly enhanced by Dutch craftsmen and builders, as were the newly built country houses and estates. The new colonists also contributed to the political and scientific communities. During the post-Restoration period, many Dutch were encouraged to settle in Ireland. For instance, Lord Orrery brought over forty Dutch families to Limerick in 1661. "It did my heart good", he wrote in the September, "to see them so busy in their manufacturers and plantations". Charleville was established by Lord Orrery at the village of Rathgogan, Co. Cork. He wrote that it was his intention to "admit neither presbyter, papist, independent, not, as our proclamation says, any other sort of fanatic to plant there, but all good protestants; and am setting up manufactures of linens and woollen cloths, and other good trades".

Costello, Vandra. “Dutch Influences in Seventeenth-Century Ireland: The Duck Decoy.” Garden History, vol. 30, no. 2, 2002, pp. 177–190. JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1587251?se ... b_contents
So it appears that in 1660 about the same time that Warnaar Hornbeck arrived in New Netherlands (New York), other Hornbeck settlers from the Netherlands arrived in County Cork. Not sure if one of the forty Dutch families that Lord Orrery brought to County Limerick in 1661 would include a Vandeleur family. From the landed estates database, the Vandeleurs of Kilrush arrived in County Clare in the early 17th century; the Vandeleurs at Rathlahine settled in 1660:

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/Lande ... sp?id=1849

Warnaar Hornbeck in New York would certainly need to purchase many pairs of shoes during his lifetime as he fathered 16 children. See Hornbeck family tree from the "Genealogical and Biographical Directory to Persons in New Netherlands from 1613 to 1674" by David M. Riker (included below with author permission). It is doubtful that the initial Vandeleur families of County Clare had as many children as Warnaar Hornbeck. However since Irish records of the 17th and 18th centuries are mostly nonexistent compared to American records, it would be much more difficult if not impossible to sort out how the descendants of the Dutch immigrants to Ireland are related.
Attachments
Hornbeck Family Tree (Genealogical and Biographical Directory to Persons of New Netherland (1613 to 1674).jpg
Hornbeck Family Tree (Genealogical and Biographical Directory to Persons of New Netherland (1613 to 1674).jpg (412.81 KiB) Viewed 111234 times

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:36 am

In the 1850 New York federal census, the widower John Hornbeck (age 40) is living in Wawarsing with son Daniel (age 5), daughter Mary (age 3), parents Daniel and Jane Hornbeck as well as his younger sister Gertrude (age 18) who is most likely looking after the young children. His father Daniel Hornbeck died on 25 July 1851 with just a brief announcement in the Christian Intelligencer newspaper. When the grandfather Johannes Hoornbeck died in 1844 the lengthy obituary in the Christian Intelligencer highlighted that he was a member of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of Wawarsing, and "had repeatedly sustained the solemn and important relation of spiritual ruler in that house of God. At the time of his death he was associated with the acting eldership there. In his decease, his family, and the church of which he was a member, have lost a venerable father, and a discreet counselor".

The widower John Hornbeck likely married the sister of the missing Thomas McNamara not long after the death of his father Daniel Hornbeck in 1851. America in the 1850's was very anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant. So what would the very religious Hornbeck family think about John Hornbeck marrying an Irish Catholic?
"Then you approve of me letting him marry her?"

"God, no!" The old voice was tired and bitter but vigorous. "Approve of Irish marrying into old families? Bah! Would I approve of breeding scrub stock to thoroughbreds? Oh, Irish are good and solid and honest but --"

"But you said you thought it would be a successful match!"

"Oh, I think it's good for John to marry Elizabeth -- to marry anybody for that matter, because he needs a wife bad. And where else could he get one? And where else could he get as good a mother for little Daniel and Mary? But that doesn't mean I like the situation any better than you do."

Grandma fanned herself with her palmetto leaf and went on briskly. "I don't approve of the match any more than you do but I'm practical and so are you. And when it comes to something that's unpleasant but can't be helped, I don't see any sense in screaming and kicking about it. That's no way to meet the ups and downs of life. I know because my family and the Old Doctor's family have had more than our share of ups and downs. And if we folks have a motto, it's this 'Don't holler -- smile and bide your time.' We've survived a passel of things that way, smiling and biding our time and we've gotten to be experts at surviving. We had to be. We've always bet on the wrong horses. Run out of France with the Huguenots, run out of England with the Cavaliers, run out of Scotland with Bonnie Prince Charlie, run out of Haiti by the [freed slaves] and now licked by the Yankees. But we always turn up on top in a few years. You know why?"

"Well, this is the reason. We bow to the inevitable. We're not wheat, we're buckwheat! When a storm comes along it flattens ripe wheat because it's dry and can't bend with the wind. But ripe buckwheat's got sap in it and it bends. And when the wind has passed, it springs up almost as straight and strong as before. We aren't a stiff-necked tribe. We're mighty limber when a hard wind's blowing, because we know it pays to be limber. When trouble comes we bow to the inevitable without any mouthing, and we work and we smile and we bide our time. And we play along with lesser folks and we take what we can get from them. And when we're strong enough, we kick the folks whose necks we've climbed over. That, my child, is the secret of the survival."

GWTW, Margaret Mitchell, Chapter 40, replacing "Cracker" with "Irish", few other edits
The terminology for the American Civil War can be different depending upon where you live. In the Southern states "The War between the States" or less frequently "The War of Northern Aggression" could be used instead of "The Civil War". The "Battle of Antietam" known as the "Battle of Sharpsburg" in the South is one of many examples of different terminology. The American Civil War was over 150 years ago, but how it is viewed can still be contentious for some people. Therefore, it is with some trepidation I briefly mention the tragic events of the Hornibrook family of County Cork in the Irish Civil War.

In the 1911 Irish Census, the widower Thomas Henry Hornibrook (age 67), his unmarried son Samuel Wood Hornibrook (age 32), and their domestic servant Margaret Cronin (age 40) are living in the 11 room Ballygroman House:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001816501/
On 26 April 1922, at 2:30 a.m., Captain Herbert Woods [nephew of son-in-law of Thomas Hornibrook], fired a single shot from his Bulldog 45 revolver at Irish Republican Army (IRA) Commander Michael O'Neill on the stairs of Ballygroman House, Ovens, County Cork, during the Truce period following the cessation of the Irish War of Independence, and killed him. Later that morning Thomas and Samuel Hornibrook, along with Captain Woods, were taken from Ballygroman and almost certainly killed by the anti-Treaty IRA. Over four nights, from 26 April to 29 April, ten local Protestants were shot in their homes by unknown men and four British soldiers were shot in Macroom. These killings have been cited by some modern commentators as a sign of 'ethnic cleansing' by the IRA in Cork, yet many of the details surrounding the deaths remain shrouded in mystery and numerous questions remained unanswered.

From the introduction of "Massacre in West Cork, the Dunmanway and Ballygroman Killings" by Barry Keane (Mercier Press, 2014). The book has a nice foreword written by Martin Midgley Reeve of England, great grandson of Thomas Hornibrook.
The Dublin Review of Books in their review "Murder on the Bandon River" (http://www.drb.ie/essays/murder-on-the-bandon-river) gave a positive review but felt the author Barry Keane minimized the effects the killings had on the local Protestant population by claiming that less than 10% of the population left Ireland as a result.

No matter the number that emigrated, Ireland's loss would be another country's gain. This could not be more evident than with an earlier generation of Hornibrooks that left Ireland.

John Hornibrook left Dunmanway, County Cork at the age of 19 on the "Duke of Westminster" arriving in Queensland in December 1884. He would join his widowed mother and brothers & sisters in the Obi Obi Valley in Queensland. The Dutch craftsmen and builders who arrived in Ireland in the 17th century had a great influence of the design, buildings, and appearance of the Irish landscape. The Hornibrook's who arrived in Australia in the 19th century would also have a large impact on the Australian landscape and its most iconic structures. John Hornibrook's son was Sir Manuel Richard Hornibrook (1893 - 1970) known as "Father of the Australian Building Industry" responsible for the Story Bridge, the Hornibrook Highway, and the William Jolly Bridge in Queensland. Later, the M.R. Hornibrook Corporation was the main contractor for levels 2 and 3 as well as the interior of the Sydney Opera House.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hornibr ... hard-10547
http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/showcase/hornibrook
http://blogs.slq.qld.gov.au/jol/2016/03 ... -industry/
Attachments
1850 Wawarsing NY Census Hornbeck Family.jpg
1850 Wawarsing NY Census Hornbeck Family.jpg (126.97 KiB) Viewed 111025 times

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:01 pm

The maiden name of the first wife of John D. Hornbeck was "Schoonmaker". This is Dutch for shoemaker. The Schoonmaker family settled in New Netherlands in 1655 and were Germans from Hamburg. So John Hornbeck in the 19th century married first into a German shoemaker family and then secondly an Irish woman whose relatives were Yorkshire shoemakers. Surely this couldn't have been just a simple coincidence by the Dutchman?? His ancestor Warnaar Hornbeck who first arrived in America in 1660 had legal issues always involving shoes. And it was Warnaar who had to provide shoes for a whopping 16 children. Plus the two national symbols of the Dutch are windmills to keep the land dry and wooden shoes to keep their feet dry. Surely, John Hornbeck was influenced subconsciously by his ancestor Warnaar who during his first American winter in 1660 looked down at his frozen feet and slowly raising his chin made this solemn pledge (translated from Dutch):
As God is my Witness, as God is my Witness they are not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this and when it is all over, I'll never be shoeless again. No, nor any of my folk. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill, as God is my Witness, I'll never be shoeless again!

Okay, lots of quotes from Gone with the Wind in the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree. But are we getting any closer to determining the parents of Thomas, Mary and Elizabeth?

Have a look below at the Wawarsing cemetery memorial page on findagrave.com for the wife of John Hornbeck who died on 8 September 1848. Her name was Jane Ann Schoonmaker. This does raise the possibility that instead of Elizabeth McNamara, we should be looking for Johanna McNamara of Glandree. A very young Johanna McNamara with her marriage to John Hornbeck, might not have wanted to go by her first name that was so close to the name of her husband's first wife Jane Ann. Could she have used her middle name instead? Or perhaps it was a heartbroken John Hornbeck that wanted a greater distinction in the name of his new bride?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/700 ... -hoornbeck

The Reformed Dutch Protestant Church of Wawarsing has excellent marriage and baptism records that have been transcribed in several books at the local library. But I could find no marriage record for John Hornbeck and Miss McNamara. Nor baptism records for their three children. The Reformed Dutch Church did baptize their children (hence the "reformed"?) and the two children from his first marriage with Jane Ann Schoonmaker were in the records. Possibly the local Catholic parish records in Wawarsing might contain the missing marriage and baptisms? Perhaps even provide evidence on whether or not the mother was Elizabeth or Johanna McNamara?

The first record of Elizabeth McNamara Hornbeck in the Reformed Dutch Church records is from 11 July 1856 listing of "Members Received in Communion with the Reformed Dutch Church of Wawarsing" as "Elizabeth M.A. Demerra, wife of John D. Hornbeck". As we saw with Martin McNamara, the shoemaker from Stoneham listed in census reports as "McMarry" and "McNemary", Yankees struggled greatly with the Irish name McNamara.

While a potential major breakthrough in the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree, this still leaves Thomas McNamara #2 and Thomas McNamara #4 as likely candidates since both have sisters named "Johanna". Elizabeth Hornbeck consistently gave her age in census reports as being born in 1833/1834 and in the 1900 census reported birth as March 1833. Johanna, the sister of Thomas McNamara #4, was baptized on 30 October 1832, the closest to this date.

However, Johanna the sister of Thomas McNamara #2 baptized in 8 November 1835 is still a possibility. This Johanna would have been only 17 years old when she married John Hornbeck. Despite marriages of girls as young as 15 being not uncommon in America during this time, the 17 year old Johanna may have exaggerated her age by two years to be a bit closer in age to her 42 year old husband and not as close in age as her stepchildren.

Catholic marriage registers in Ireland don't generally include age of the bride and groom. During the early to mid 19th century would brides as young as 15 or 17 be married in Ireland? or was marriage at a young age more common in America?
Attachments
Jane Anne Schoonmaker Hoornbeck headstone Wawarsing Cemetery NY.jpg
Jane Anne Schoonmaker Hoornbeck headstone Wawarsing Cemetery NY.jpg (52.95 KiB) Viewed 110813 times

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:14 pm

Hi Jim

It’s generally agreed that the marriage age was lower before the Famine than afterwards – though historians say that, even before the famine, those parents who had substantial dowries to bestow did not part with them without due time and deliberation. Why do people think that the marriage-age was lower pre-1845? I think it’s mainly because early marriages would go a long way towards explaining the huge rise in population in the first half of the century. I’m not sure how people know what the population numbered at the end of the 18th century, as there was no census in Ireland then, but I trust that they know somehow. Certainly between 1831 and 1841 there was a huge swell in the population.
In Ireland, it seems that poor people who had no great expectations went into marriage quite freely, knowing that potatoes and milk were enough to feed a growing family and believing that these would be available most of the year, most years. But I gather that there was a huge growth in the population of Britain and of European countries in general - so maybe there's more to it than potatoes and milk.

Sheila

Jimbo
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Jimbo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:35 am

Thanks very much Sheila for the explanation on marriages in Ireland. Thomas McNamara #10 on my list, the son of Daniel McNamara and Anne Halloran of Tullacrag, appears to have taken a young bride of only 17 to America in 1856 - but there is conflicting evidence of this.

In 1862 Thomas McNamara #10 opened an Emigrant Savings Bank Account in New York. The NY Emigrant Bank required its depositors to answer questions documented in "Test Books" so they could prove who they were in future transactions. If every Irish immigrant to America had opened similar bank accounts, it would make tracing your ancestors back to Ireland very simple:

Thomas McNamara (account 29933) stated in April 1862 that he was a milkman living in Astoria, Long Island (Queens). That he was born in 1836 in Tulla, Clare, Ireland and arrived in 1856 on the "Emerald Isle". That he was single and father in Ireland was Daniel (now deceased) and mother was Anne Holleran.

The information provided was very accurate with only a minor difference of 1 year for birth. Thomas was indeed on the "Emerald Isle" which arrived in New York from Liverpool on 8 October 1856. See below passenger listing. But while Thomas stated that he was single in 1862, on the "Emerald Isle" he is 20 years old and travelling with 17 year old wife Mary McNamara. Possibly they were married in neighboring Feakle as their marriage records start in 1860 and Mary died in NY prior to 1862? Or else this could have been a simple mistake in "occupation" as Thomas did have a sister named Mary although she was one year his senior. Or perhaps the siblings were travelling to America under false pretenses which was explored briefly in the Irish documentary "Far and Away". Was there some advantage in traveling as a married couple which would get you moved say from the lower deck to the main deck? See deck levels of "Emerald Isle" at bottom of passenger listing. The McNamara "newlyweds" aren't listed on the lower deck or even on the main deck, but two of only six passengers on the coveted "house on deck":

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1849782

The "Test Books" for the NY Emigrant Savings Banks are available on ancestry.com (paid subscription site, free at many libraries). The data can be queried by birth location. There were about eight accounts for individuals born in Tulla (Fulla), Clare. About 1,800 from County Clare that may or may not include a specific location. There would be many duplicate names in this total. Married account holders would typically provide their spouse name, and not their parents back in Ireland.

Thomas McNamara #10 was able to avoid fighting in the American Civil War and so is definitely not the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree. He would marry the widow Margaret Hinchey (nee Ryan) of Feakle about 1865. Margaret Ryan and Dennis Hinchey had two children together. Daughter Mary was born about 1860 prior to the start of the Feakle baptism register. Son James (Patrick?) was baptized in Feakle on 17 February 1862, witnesses James Ryan and Ellen Hogan. This same James Ryan (age 41) is living in New York City in the 1880 census with his wife Catherine and nephew Patrick Henchey (age 21) and niece Nellie McNamara (age 9). By the 1892 NY State Census, the Thomas McNamara household includes his step children Mary (age 32) and Patrick (age 30) who are both reported using the McNamara surname. Thomas McNamara and Margaret Ryan Hinchey had several children together. Their first born son was named Daniel after the father of Thomas McNamara.

Despite the wealth of evidence that this Thomas McNamara was born in Tulla the son of Daniel McNamara and Anne Halloran, their descendants are unable to make this connection. Unfortunately, when Thomas died in July 1908 his wife Margaret Ryan Hinchey stated on his death certificate that the father of Thomas was "John McNamara". "Anne Holleran" as mother was correct. I believe people place far too much faith in the accuracy of death certificates (and in this case, accuracy of marital status on passenger lists). Daniel McNamara had died prior to 1862 (timing of the "Test Book") so likely that Margaret Hinchey had never even met her father-in-law to be able to complete the death certificate with any accuracy:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... print=true

For any Thomas McNamara #10 descendants who might read this someday, here are the top things to do in Tulla:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g63 ... tions.html

edit 1: reloaded passenger list to include total passenger summary at bottom
Attachments
Passenger List of Emerald Isle to NYC from Liverpool 1856.jpg
Passenger List of Emerald Isle to NYC from Liverpool 1856.jpg (191.03 KiB) Viewed 110519 times
Last edited by Jimbo on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

Post by Sduddy » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:24 pm

Hi Jim

That record from the Emigrant Savings Bank Account was a good find. But disappointing that it’s not for Thomas from Glandree.

I know to my cost that mistakes are made with the naming of the father of the dead person - it took a lot of finding of contradictory evidence before I realised the father's name for a relative was incorrect. I think we forget that when information was demanded of our ancestors they had no written records to fall back on – they were put on the spot and had to try to remember what they were told.

As this thread has useful information on Tulla McNamaras not from Glendree, I want to correct what I said on the first page about Frank Mack aged 7 in that 1875 census for Steuben, which was found by smcarberry. I said that his baptism in Tulla (Oct. 1867) was the only one recorded for his parents Thomas McNamara and Judy Neil, but I later found that Thomas and Judy also had a daughter, Mary, who was baptised on 22.06.1861; address: Blarna. She is shown in that 1875 census, aged 13. The baptism of her sister, Bridget, aged 10, was not recorded – or maybe it was recorded but not legible.

Sheila

Post Reply