Information is wanted of Thomas McNamara, of Glandree,

[Sduddy]

Hi Sharon

I just can’t reconcile that newspaper report with the records Jimbo found, which fitted so well with the records I had found, and fitted so well around Mrs. Carroll. And I can’t bear to demolish our nice neat construction. I wish that 1933 newspaper report had said, “Margaret Smith, wife of Patrick, sister of Michael, Mary, Delia Meehan and Mrs. Nora Carroll, Native of Tulla” - then everthing would be perfect.

I’ve decided to retreat from Derryulk and cease mining there for relatives of Thomas McNamara, Civil War veteran, not because of that newspaper report, but because I had already begun to doubt very much that the John McNamara and Mary Kelly in Derryulk were the same couple as the John McNamra and Mary Kelly in Glendree. As I said before, I really don’t think Mary in Barnsley would have placed an advertisement in 1869, saying “of Glendree”, if the family had moved away from there over 30 years previously. Yes, I know “Derryulk” did not have the same ring to it as “Glendree”, but I think that would not have been enough to lead Mary to choose Glendree as the address. “Knockjames”, as a general address for people living in the townlands closeby the church and school, may not have come into use at the time that Mary was placing the ad – somebody may be able to advise on that – but it certainly had come into use by the end of the century. Sometimes a church, or school, within a parish, became the centre of a kind of unofficial mini-parish, and people would speak of Toonagh (Dysert) without meaning the townland of Toonagh exactly, and they would speak of Ballinruan (Crusheen) without meaning the townland of Ballinruan exactly. Likewise with Knockjames.

The Tulla parish marriage register shows that Johanna [Mary?] McNamara was living in Glendree at the time of her marriage to James Madigan in 1860. She had not moved to Derryulk, or anywhere else. So I think it’s a good idea to go back to Glendree and imagine that some of that family of John McNamara and Mary Kelly* were still living there around 1860, if not later. John is not listed in Griffith’s Valuation, but I won’t kill him off just because of that – he may have been living on his father’s farm. The deaths registered in Tulla between 1864 and 1878, show the deaths of 5 John McNamaras any of which might be that of John the husband of Mary Kelly: a John McNamara died in 1866, aged 68, a John McNamara died in 1868, aged 67, a John McNamara died in 1869, aged 69, a John McNamara died in 1875, aged 80, and a John McNamara died in 1870, aged 92. Likewise there are deaths of several Mary McNamaras, any of which might be Mary Kelly. I know that some of those Johns and Marys are from parishes outside of Tulla parish, but I’m sure that one or two are from Tulla, and I am interested in them, and wishing the images were available.
Death records do not give as much information as Marriage records, but they give the address plus the name of the informant (the person who reported the death), who is usually a relative. Unfortunately, when people died in Tulla Workhouse, the official there did not always say where the person came from, and, as he was also the informant, there is no clue to be gleaned from the record other than the person’s age and whether they were married, unmarried, or widowed. I haven’t seen the records of deaths, registered in Tulla, in the 1860s - apart from that of Andrew McNamara who died in 1867 – because they are not available online, but I suspect that a good many of the deaths which took place in the workhouse, in that decade, are of people who had gone there during, or shortly after the Great Famine, and maybe their addresses were not known to the official.

In short, even when the records do become viewable online, I may be disappointed with the amount of information contained in them.

*Always keeping in mind that Thomas the Civil War Veteran and Mary Madigan of Barnsley may not have been their children.

Sheila

[smcarberry]

Sheila, errors creep into my notes when I copy and paste so many times while I update flashdrives. You found one of those, as shown by using NYC Municipal Archives transcriptions indexed by the German Genealogy Group at http://germangenealogygroup.com/records ... deaths.php Super fast facility, and then double-checked at FamilySearch.org which has more details. Margaret who died in Dec 1933 was indeed the one with a married name of Smith and thus the sister of Nora Carroll. Margaret fudged a bit regarding her age and likely also her immigration date. Apparently she had no surviving children; see 1930 census.

I am sure that Jim accepts your decision with regret. It's been a fine illustration of how even the smallest details are needed to become confident about a family's home.

Sharon C.

Smith, Margt, d. 21 Dec 1933.JPG (49.22 KiB) Viewed 32997 times

Meehan, Margt, none Dec 1933 Manhtn.JPG (50.79 KiB) Viewed 32997 times

Smith, Margt, d.1933, parents named.JPG (16.09 KiB) Viewed 32997 times

Smith 1930 census, Amsterdam Ave.JPG (42.3 KiB) Viewed 32997 times

[Sduddy]

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for that correction. The neat construction is saved from demolition!
I’m not leaving the search for Thomas the Civil War Veteran - just moving back to Glendree and thinking about the births to John McNamara and Mary Kelly in that townland, ie. James b. 1828, Thomas b. 1832, Bridget b. 1834, Johanna b. 1835.

About that Johanna b. 1835: There were two other Johanna McNamaras born in Glenree about that time: Johanna born to Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara in 1832; and Johanna born to Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara in 1836. Any one of the three Johannas could be the Jane McNamara who married Denis Cooney in 1856 (Tulla parish marriages). That particular Johanna died in 1899, in Glendree, aged 63 (so was born abt. 1837).

While looking afresh at John McNamara and Mary Kelly as quite independent from the Derryulks, I got yet another idea, which is this: just supposing Mary Kelly died soon after the birth of Johanna in 1835, and John McNamara then married again – this time to Bridget Coffey*. There are 3 baptisms for children of John McNamara and Bridget Coffey in Glandree: Mary b. 1840, Anne b. 1843 and Pat b. 1845. Still no Elizabeth, but at least a Mary born at the right time to fit with the birth of Mary Madigan of Barnsley (abt. 1840). All very fanciful of course - I don't know how any of it could be either proved, or disproved.

*Tithes shows a Lau’ce Coffee and a Jno Coffee living in Glandree. The Tulla baptisms show both of these: Laurence Coffee married to Jane Reddan and John Coffee married to Honour Moynihan.

Sheila

[Jimbo]

Hi Sharon,

Thanks very much for providing the Meehan obituaries from the New York Times as they provide some interesting new clues worthy of further exploration.

Hi Sheila,

Yes, the bifurcation of John McNamara and Mary Kelly into two separate families in Glandree and Derryulk leads to lots of new possibilities. Most certainly not a dash of cold water for our search. I'm very enthusiastic about your suggestion that a widower John McNamara may have remarried Bridget Coffee. Sheila, at the start of the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree, you were often quick to blame missing baptism records when other reasonable explanations were just waiting to be discovered. Perhaps remarriage was more common in the 19th century than we might think especially with a high overall mortality rates for both men and women. This reminds me that I still need to follow up on Thomas McNamara #1 and the possible remarriage of his mother Mary Cunningham to Thomas Fahey.

Lots of new research to explore. For example, I see that John McNamara and Bridget Coffey also had a son Michael born in 1847 besides Mary (1840), missing quarter (1841), Anne (1843) and Pat (1845).

But first I am not quite so ready to retreat from the Meehan's of New York who were the children of John Meehan and Anne McNamara of Derryulk. The search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree has so far been a tightly woven story, and it is good to always resolve any loose threads: From the obituary of Margaret Meehan Smith in 1933, we can assume that her brother John Meehan (born 1886) had died sometime between the 1920 census report and the 1933 obituary. Since her brother didn't even rate "the late John Meehan" in the obituary, I reckon he may have died closer to 1920 than 1933.

On the listing of Tulla immigrants by Tom McDowell, John Meehan is included but as "incorrect manifest displayed". This comment appears for about 20 immigrants from Tulla, and I assume the Ellis Island website has the incorrect manifests linked to their search engine. FamilySearch has the correct manifest for John Meehan. He arrived at Ellis Island on 3 May 1910 on the SS Arabic; his contact in Ireland was his father John Meehan of Derryulk, Tulla, Clare; his contact in America was his sister Margaret McNamara of 210 East 29th Street, New York. He appears to be traveling with a friend from Tulla by the name of Thomas Halpin.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... print=true

In 1917 when John Meehan registered for the WWI draft his date of birth was reported as 1 November 1886 and birthplace Knock James, Clare, Ireland. Sheila, this might help answer your question when immigrants started using Knockjames instead of Derryulk. John's occupation was listed as chauffeur the same occupation as in the 1920 census. John Meehan was tall, medium build, grey eyes, and brown hair. There are many John Meehan's listed in the WWI records from New York, but this John was living at 633 Columbus Avenue, New York. Nora Meehan Carroll was living at 633 Columbus Avenue starting about 1915 or so. In my last posting I incorrectly stated that she had moved by 1940. Nora Carroll appears to have lived in a large corner tenement building with one entrance at 82 West 91st Street and another entrance on 633 Columbus Avenue; I don't believe she moved at all. One block from Central Park on the Upper West Side she would never be able to afford the rent in that neighborhood today.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... print=true

John Meehan didn't just register for the WWI draft. Exactly 100 years ago Private Meehan was fighting in the trenches on the Western Front with Company I, 321st Infantry, 81st Division also known as the "Wildcats". There are 19 John Meehan's who enlisted in New York and have a "WWI New York Army Card" (available on Fold3.com). John Meehan (Army serial number 3209735) only states that he was born in "Ireland" without stating County Clare. However, his date of birth is 1 November 1886 and residence is "633 Columbus Avenue", so he is definitely our Meehan from Derryulk, County Clare. John Meehan was inducted at "LB #129 New York City on May 29, 1918". He served overseas from 31 July 1918 to 20 June 1919. He was honorably discharged on demobilization on 28 June 1919.

The History of the 321st Infantry by Clarence Walter Johnson (1919) provides "a vivid and authentic account of the life and experiences of the American soldier in France, while they trained, worked, and fought to help win the World War". I'm not sure what John Meehan an Irishman living in New York City was doing in the 321st Infantry. The "Wildcats" were mostly all from North Carolina, Alabama and other Southern States; the few other New Yorkers had mostly Italian names. The 321st embarked on three different English troop ships, The Walmer Castle, The Scandinavian, and The City of Glasgow with English crews. The 12 day journey on the troop ships did not get good reviews as many soldiers as possible were put aboard: "no respect had been paid the passenger capacity of the boats" and most of the men got seasick the first night onboard. The 321st arrived in Liverpool on August 11th and made their way to Southampton crossing the channel to Le Havre on August 13th. By cattle car, they made their way to the villages around Tonnerre where the soldiers received training from August 17th through September 14th. On September 19th, the 321st Infantry would take up their positions on the Western Front defending the St. Die sector at Raon l'Etape. The companies took their turn in the front line trenches, serving from 10 to 20 days each. John Meehan and Company I were not so lucky when it was their turn to defend the front line:

Only one infantry attack was made against the 321st on this sector. That occurred at dawn, on the morning of October 9th. This attack was successfully repulsed without any loss of ground by Company I. In preparation for the attack the Germans laid down a very heavy barrage, using 3,000 to 4,000 shells on a small sector occupied by Company I. The Germans came over in two waves, following closely the barrage. They came prepared to make an attack with liquid fire, but Company I captured the liquid fire gun before it could be used. The fine way in which this attack was repulsed was due to the splendid work of Sergeants Sutherland and Yorby [of Company I]...That morning, as we saw the stretcher bearers carrying our wounded comrades wrapped in bloody blankets to the first aid station, some unconscious, others groaning pitifully, we felt with a tremor of our whole being the horror of war.

Shortly thereafter on 28 October 1918, Private John Meehan was promoted to Private First Class. The 321st Infantry would arrive in Verdun on November 3rd, 1918. They were still fighting the Germans until the 11th hour of November 11th, the Armistice ending the war.

Unfortunately, I cannot find John Meehan in the death records of New York. His last record is the 1920 NY Census when he is living with his sisters Nora Carroll and Delia Meehan. I am assuming that he died in the 1920's as he is not mentioned in the 1933 obituary of his sister Margaret Smith. John Meehan is a very common name in New York. There was a John Meehan who fought for Company I, 326th Infantry, 82nd Division who died on 8 June 1926. But this is not the John Meehan from Derryulk. The widow of this John Meehan waited until 1941 to order his military headstone. Which is a bit of a worry. Did the Meehan sisters even know to order a military headstone at federal government expense when their brother died? Is it possible that John Meehan suffered from shell shock and could have been treated at a military hospital in another state? This would be a similar situation as the Civil War Veteran Thomas Mack from New York but who is buried in Wisconsin. Or is it possible that John Meehan decided to return to Ireland and died there? It might be a challenge to discover where Private First Class John Meehan of Derryulk, County Clare is buried and when he died.

[Sduddy]

Hi Jim

That is really great research into John Meehan (1886 – 19??). Well done. His story certainly deserves to be told. I wonder if he did return home. There were a couple of men in my neighbourhood who had gone to America and taken part in WWI and returned home afterwards. They received US army pensions, which were considered to be great money as it was better than the wages paid to County Council workers at the time (for mending roads and digging ditches, etc). I think they were envied, rather than pitied. It would be very hard to explain that to anyone now!

By the way, when I was writing about John Meehan and Anne McNamara (the parents of John above), I forgot to mention that the entry for their marriage in the Tulla parish register, on Apr. 14, 1877, has Michael Meehan and Anne McNamara – clearly an error, and just one small example of the fallibility of the priest.

Sheila

[smcarberry]

In case you want to track down Michael Meehan of Clare, still living when Nora Meehan Carroll died in 1964, and see if that leads to Pvt. John Meehan whose death mention definitely was not published in a NYC newspaper.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the feedback as well as the Nora Meehan Carroll obituary and having a look for John Meehan's obituary in New York. I might have another look for John Meehan another day, but for now will focus on the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree.

I checked the Tulla marriage and baptism records for the children of John McNamara and Bridget Coffey:

1) Mary McNamara, born 1840: will assume is the Mary McNamara Madigan of Barnsley, Yorkshire.

2) Anne McNamara, born 1843: Did she marry in Tulla? Anne has several possible marriage opportunities, including (a) William MacKey in March 1864; (b) John Canny in June 1864; (c) Lawrence Meany on February 1866 . No locations are provided in the marriage register.

The only couple to have children in Tulla are Anne McNamara and John Canny: John (1865) in Keiraun(?); Pat (1866) in Cerane; John (1868) in Upper Glandree; and the remainder in Glandree: James (1871); Martin (1875); and Mary (1880). In the 1901 Census, Anne (age 60) and John Canny (age 77) are living in House 4 in Glandree with three children. In the 1911 Census, the widow Anne (age 74), her single son Patt (age 44) as head of household, & three other children plus a servant are living in House 23 in Glandree:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1087439/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ee/370574/

But is this Anne the daughter of John McNamara and Bridget Coffey? She would be 19 in 1864 which appears a common age to marry. In the 1901 census Anne's age of 60 would be just 2 years from 1843. But there other Anne McNamara's born in Glandree about the same time: (a) Anne (1843) to Martin McNamara and Judy McMahon of Glandree; (b) Anne (1844) to Pat McNamara and Nancy Couny (Corry?) of Glandree. And perhaps other Anne McNamara's born in the missing Tulla baptism pages for quarter periods in 1841 and 1843.

3) Patt, born 1845: Can we find him in the 1901 Census living in Glandree? The Patt (age 55) living in House 26 in the 1901 Census would be perfect, yet we know he is the son of Andrew McNamara. The Patrick (age 52) living in House 17 would be alright, but he is living with his father Patrick McNamara (age 82).

Another possibility I could find was the Patrick McNamara who with Bridget Connors had 9 children born in Uggoon: Mary (1872); Mathew (1873); Anne (1875); Patrick (1877); Michael (1879). From the 1901 Census for Uggoon Upper, the widower Pat (age 53) is living with his younger children: Ellen (age 18); Bridget (age 17); John (age 15); James (age 12). In the 1911 Census, Pat is 72 years old. The marriage record for Patrick McNamara and Bridget Connors say around 1870 is not in the Tulla register.

There is also a Patrick McNamara who with Catherine O'Neil has a daughter Mary in Glandree in 1871, but then this family disappears from the Tulla records. And a few other Patrick McNamara's in neighboring Tyredagh who appear as fathers in the Tulla baptism register for 1862 - 1881.

Or did Patt follow his half-brother Thomas to America around 1863 and at the age of 18 enlist as a Union soldier in the American Civil War?

4) Michael, born 1847: could find no promising evidence of Michael in the Tulla marriage register as a groom or the 1862- 1881 baptism register as a father. This Michael also doesn't appear in Glandree in the 1901 Census as we previously identified all the McNamara's a few pages back.

Could Michael have gone to Barnsley or Wawarsing to stay with his sisters Mary McNamara Madigan and Elizabeth McNamara Hornbeck?

[Sduddy]

Hi Jim

You’ve just completed most of the tasks I had set for myself. Good stuff. I had noted Ann McNamara Canny, but hadn’t got any further with her, nor with either of the other Annes. Her marriage to John Canny was registered in Tulla in 1864. I am going on a match-up of numbers - the image is not viewable. So I will send for the record and that will tell us who her father is. As you say her age in 1901 makes her a good possibility for the daughter of John McNamara and Bridget Coffey.

Laurence Meany’s marriage to another Anne McNamara was registered in 1866 (again a matchup of numbers). The death of Laurence Meany was registered in Tulla in 1879. He was aged 66, and the informant was Anne (presumably his wife). So Laurence was born abt. 1813. The death of an Anne Meany, aged 80, widow of a labourer, in Tulla Workhouse, was registered in 1894. So this Anne was born about 1814. There are no Meanys in Doonaun (Tulla DED) in 1901. I don’t see any baptisms of children of Laurence and Anne in the Tulla baptisms. If this Laurence and this Anne are the couple who married in 1866 they were both aged about 50 at the time of the marriage. Anyway, this Anne can’t possibly be the daughter of John McNamara and Bridget Coffey.

The marriage of William McKey was registered in Tulla in 1864 (pg. no. 603), but I could not find a matching Anne McNamara. A Honora McNamara does match (pg. no. 603), and this couple (William McKee and Honora McNamara) lived in Kilbarron (Coolreagh DED), where William had a farm. The birth records show several children born to this couple, but the records also show three children born in Killaloe to another William MacKey and his wife Anne McNamara. This man is described as a servant in the registrations of those children: James b. 1865, Margaret b. 1867, Patrick b. 1872 (there were probably some more – these 3 were all that I found). In 1901 Anne Mackey is living in Shantraud (Killaloe DED) aged 60, mother-in-law in the household of Daniel Morgan and his wife Lena (aged 36). The record of the marriage, in 1893, in Killaloe Chapel, of Daniel Morgan, Toll Collector, and Helena Cavanagh, Dressmaker, shows that she is a widow and that her father is William MacKay, Waiter. Lena had married John Cavanagh, a Policeman from Nenagh [Co. Tipperary], in 1884. A son, John Kavanagh, was born in 1886, and he (John Cavanagh) is living with Daniel Morgan and Lena in 1901, aged 14. Daniel Morgan died in 1903, aged 82, occupation: Lock Keeper; informant: John Kavanagh, Step-son. By 1911 John Cavanagh/Kavanagh has left home, his mother, Lena, has a daughter, Bridget, aged 15, who is an Apprentice Milliner, and Lena’s mother Anne MacKey (nee McNamara) is aged 76. Anne died in 1923, aged 89, “probably of old age”, widow of a butler; informant: Bridget Ryan, Grand daughter. So I reckon Anne was born about 1835. Is she a candidate for the position of Anne b. 1843 to John McNamara and Bridget Coffee? Maybe, but not at all as good a candidate as Anne Canny, I think.

Sheila

[Sduddy]

Hi Jim

I won’t call this a revelation, or a discovery, as I see now that it’s mentioned in Edward MacLysaght’s The Surnames of Ireland*, but something has dawned on me. It will not help with finding Thomas McNamara Civil War Veteran, but it’s interesting in itself: when “Sheedy” is used as a surname in the early Glendree baptisms (Tulla parish, 1819-1846), it stands for “Sheedy McNamara”**. Look at these Glandree baptisms (taken from the transcriptions) and you will see what I mean:

First look at these Sheedy baptisms (Glendree):
1833: Sheedy, Andrew(?), of Andrew Sheedy and M. Clanchy, Glandree
1841-2: Sheedy, Andrew, of Andrew Sheedy and Peg Clanchy, Glandree(?)
1831: Sheedy, Mary, of Andy Sheedy and Margaret Clancy, Glandree
1841-2: Sheedy, James, of Pat Sheedy and Mary Molony, Glandree
1828: Sheedy, Judy, of Pat Sheedy and Margaret Doyle, Glandree
1836: Sheedy, Michael, of Thomas Sheedy and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree
1836: Sheedy, William(?), of Thomas Sheedy and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree.

Now look at these McNamara baptisms (Glendree):
1829: Mac, Michael, of Andy Mac and Margaret Clancy, Glandree
1835: McNamara, Judy, of Andrew Sheedy and Margaret Clancy, Glandree
1843: McNamara, Judy, of Pat McNamara and Nory Molony, Glandree
1833: McNamara, Margaret, of Patt McNamara and Margaret Doyle, Glandree
1828: Mac, Mary, of Thomas Mac and Margaret Hawkings, Glandree
1821: McNamara, Thomas, of Thomas McNamara and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree
1825: McNamara, Margaret, of Thomas McNamara and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree
1830: McNamara, Mary, of Thomas McNamara and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree
1834: McNamara, Honora, of Thomas McNamara and Margaret Hawkins, Glandree
1832: McNamara, Judy, of Tom McNamara and Peggy Hawkins, Glandree
1840: McNamara, John, of Tom McNamara and Peggy Hawkins, Glandree

By the next set of baptisms, 1846-1862, this “short” for “Sheedy McNamara” is no longer in use. There’s just one instance: 1853: Sheedy, John, of Patrick Sheedy and Norry Molony, Glandree. The priest, who made a very helpful index at the end of that set of baptisms, and who writes some notes on variants of names – for instance he explains that Powell is a variant of Guilfoyle – feels no need to say anything about Sheedy. By the next set of baptisms, 1862-1881, “Sheedy” is gone.
So, for the townland of Glendree and maybe other places in Tulla parish, “Sheedy” is a distinguishing mark for a branch of the McNamaras. The people who drew up the Tithe Applotment Books for Glendree did not subscribe to this convention – at least the name Sheedy does not appear.

*Edward MacLysaght says: “(Mac) Sheedy. A branch of the Macnamaras – the two names have sometimes been used synonymously. It is never translated as Silke as Ó Síoda is”.

**You may remember that I discovered (upon reading an article, by Martin Breen and Risteard Ua Croinin, in this year’s The Other Clare) that the descendants of Maccon of Síoda Cam McNamara formed a branch of the family which was distinguished from other branches by the name Sheedy (anglicisation of Síoda), and that I noticed, in Griffith’s Valuation, that one of the Andrew McNamaras in Glendree is called Aw. McNamara (Bawn), while another Andrew McNamara is called Andrew McNamara (Sheedy).

Jim, I don’t think any of this will make much difference to our search for Thomas. But it does produce more Johannas (Judy and Johanna are the same name) born about the same time (1835) as Johanna of John McNamara and Mary Kelly in Glendree ( we had already mentioned Johanna born to Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara in 1832, and Johanna born to Andrew McNamara and Bridget McNamara in 1836), and therefore more candidates for the Jane McNamara who married Denis Cooney in 1856. In the baptisms of her children she is always called Johanna and in the baptism of Michael Cooney in 1870 she is called Johanna Sheedy McNamara (p 36 left online). Johanna Cooney died in 1899, aged 63. Her husband, Denis, and two sons are living in Glendree in 1901 (House 51). I really don't think we will ever find out which Johanna she was.

This leads me back to the subject of the children of John McNamara and Mary Kelly in Glendree and also to John McNamara and Bridget Coffey in Glendree and our quest to find records for their children. Even if we find a marriage record that shows that John McNamara is the father, we will never know if it’s John who was married to Bridget Coffey, or John who was married to Mary Kelly, or some other John. The only kind of record that can give us that kind of information is a death or marriage record from the U.S., or from Australia - or New Zealand, maybe. And just supposing we are lucky enough to find one of those – are we any nearer to Thomas? Well, this is where I remind myself that the only record of a Mary McNamara (or Sheedy) born in Glendree in 1840, is that of Mary born to John McNamara and Bridget Coffey, and she is the best candidate we have found, so far, for Mary Madigan in Barnsley. On that note …

Sheila

[Jimbo]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for explaining the term "Sheedy McNamara" as you had previously mentioned this a few times and I had wondered if there was any significance in the term. Your discovery of seven Sheedy McNamara's in the Tulla baptism register is a great find. I need to study your new information further, but a quick glance leads to a few revelations:

1) My theory about the Michael McNamara from "Tullagh" born about 1822 who with his wife and two children from Tuamgraney were on The Irene to Australia in 1852 has been considerably weakened. As you may recall the Australian death record for this Michael McNamara stated his parents were "Thomas and Margaret", while a family tree stated the mother was Margaret Hinchey. I questioned whether the parents could have been Thomas McNamara and Margaret Hawkins, and their son Michael born in the missing pages of the Tulla baptism register. But now you have found a Michael Sheedy born to Thomas Sheedy (McNamara) and Margaret Hawkins in 1836. So even if they had a son Michael born in 1822 (now looking very unlikely), he would have died prior to 1836. My Australian theory has all been rooned.

2) In House 26 in the 1901 Census for Glandree was Pat McNamara (age 55) with his wife Ellen (age 47) & eight children. The civil record of his marriage (to Elleanora McMahon) in 1875 shows that he was from Glandree, a widower, and that his father was Andrew McNamara. I guessed that Patrick's baptism record could be in the missing quarters of the Tulla register in either 1841 and 1843. But I could not figure out who the father Andrew McNamara could be. Now based upon your Sheedy findings the Pat McNamara could have been born in 1843 to the parents Andrew Sheedy and Margaret Clancy who we now know had children between 1829 and 1841.

I had previously discovered a Thomas Sheady McNamara born about 1828 in the 1854 "Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service" records (available on Fold3.com). This Thomas could have been more specific on his birth as his record of service states that he was born in the parish of Clare, in the town of Clare, in the county of Clare. Thomas stated that he was 18 years old when he enlisted in Limerick with the 24th Regiment Foot on 15 June 1846. His 7 years and 139 days of service included 6 years and 4 months in the East Indies. "His character of conduct was good. Is in possession of one good conduct badge. Service with the Army of the Punjab in 1848 and 1849. Was present in that action at Salulapur, Chillianwala, and Gujrat. Has received the Punjab Medal and (illegible term)". Thomas was at the Royal Military Hospital at Chelsea for a period of 34 days, when on 17 August 1854 the doctor stated that due to a disease of the lungs he was unfit for further service. This was approved on the 12 September 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chillianwala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gujrat

If the term "Sheady McNamara" was indeed somewhat specific to Glandree, then this Thomas Sheady McNamara could possibly be the Thomas Mac born in Glandree to Michael Mac and Mary Cusack on 5 April 1829. He may have fudged his age slightly to enlist with the 24th Regiment Foot at the age of 18. I've seen other enlistment records where a 17 and 1/2 year old enlisted, and he received reduced pay until he turned 18 years old. So a young man might have an incentive to lie slightly about his age. As you may recall this Thomas Mac had no other siblings in the Tulla baptism register as the Michael McNamara and Mary Cusack family of Teereera was a separate family. Not much is known about this Thomas who could have moved from Glandree (hence no siblings in baptism records) and known little about his actual birthplace (hence at enlistment his birthplace was reported as Clare Parish, Clare Town, Clare County).

However, Thomas Sheady McNamara of the 24th Regiment Foot could just as well be the Thomas born to Michael McNamara and Bridget McNamara in January 1829. Thomas could have completed his service in 1854 and returned to Glandree to marry Bridget Hayes in 1863 (at the age of 34), have lots of children, and be reported as living in House 6 in the 1901 Irish Census. If this were the case, we might also find his brothers in the British military records.

Or if the term "Sheady McNamara" was only Tulla Parish specific, the 24th Foot soldier could be the Thomas born to Andrew McNamara and Ellen Reidy of Knockadune on 30 December 1829. Or perhaps the Thomas born to Michal Mac and Mary Halloran of Tulla on 7 August 1830.

If the term "Sheady McNamara" is only County Clare specific, then it is anybody's guess who he could be.

A google search of the term "Sheady McNamara" led to few results:
(1) The County Clare library site transcriptions of the "Royal Hospital Chelsea: Clare Soldiers’ Service Documents" by Tom McDowell, including above Thomas of the 24th Regiment Foot.

(2) A "Missing Friends" ad in the Boston Pilot from 17 March 1877: "OF MICHAEL SHEADY McNAMARA, who left Jamestown, Chautauqua County, N.Y., eight or nine years ago, for Cincinnati, to see where his brother Patrick was buried; he was a resident of the parish of Kilaloe, County Clare.

A previous google search of "McNamara Glandree" led to a 2010 genealogy forum posting. The poster's grandfather from Glandree was stated as "Danny McNamara (known as Sheedy McNamaras)". No dates for anyone in the posting were provided.

But just now a search of the term "Sheedy McNamara" led to about 200 results from all over Ireland, but many are County Clare specific. Including a "Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner" record for John Sheedy McNamara who "attested for the 40th Regiment of Foot at Ennis in the County of Clare on the 2 January 1821". He served for 19 years 277 days! This included 5 years and 5 months in New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land as well as 10 years and 5 months in the East Indies. His records state that "He was born in the Parish of Clare Abbey, in or near the town of Clare, in the County of Clare."

So my final conclusion is that the term Sheady McNamara or Sheedy McNamara would not necessarily be Glandree or Tulla Parish specific. Most likely Thomas Sheady McNamara (born 1828), like John Sheedy McNamara (born 1802) is from the "Parish of Clare Abbey" - which I believe would be Drumcliff / Ennis Catholic Parish?? On the 1855 Griffith's Valuation for Clareabbey Parish there is a "Clare Town". I recall reading somewhere on this forum that it was not uncommon for Irish Catholics from Ennis to enlist with the British military. Yes, very doubtful that the Thomas Sheady McNamara of the 24th Regiment Foot would be from Glandree. But I do find the Irish experience in the British military in far off colonies of the British Empire very interesting.

[Sduddy]

Hi Jimbo

That’s great work you have done so quickly on the name “Sheedy McNamara”. Yes, I agree that the name was not confined to Glendree, or even to Tulla – I was just being cautious - not wanting to generalize without some evidence – and also wanting to acknowledge that there must be plenty of Sheedys in Clare who do not want to be presumed to be a branch of the McNamaras. Maybe the use of “Sheedy” by itself (without the “McNamara”) is peculiar to the Tulla parish records. I would need to look at other parish records to determine that (that’s work for a rainy day). Another thing I need to do is try to get Kieran Sheedy's history of Feakle parish. I've been meaning to for a long time. And he is bound to have something to say about the Sheedys.

Your google search (which I did not even think of doing) results are most interesting, and show that “Sheedy McNamara” was still in use quite late in the century – contrary to what I had deduced from the Tulla parish records. Also those results show that the name travelled – I had imagined that it was just a way of distinguishing the many McNamaras in Glendree and thereabouts (I must say, at this point, that Tom McDowell’s transcriptions are a great resource for researchers). “Clare Parish, Co. Clare” is probably Clareabbey, Co. Clare. I agree that it’s very possible that Thomas Sheady McNamara from Clare is a brother of John Sheedy McNamara from Clare Abbey.

I am interested in the genealogy forum posting of 2010 on “Danny McNamara (known as Sheedy McNamaras)” from Glendree. I had noticed a Daniel McNamara, in a couple of the civil records, whose address was Glendree:
1872 Marriage: Stephen McNamara, widower, Ayle, son of Daniel McNamara (deceased) married Catherine McNamara, Glendree, daughter of Daniel McNamara (deceased), in Tulla chapel, 1872.
1878 Marriage: Mary Galway alias McNamara, widow, Glendree, daughter of Daniel McNamara (dead) married Hugh Tuohy, Feakle, in Tulla chapel, 1878.
This Daniel, does not feature in Griffith’s valuation of Glendree, but must be a son, or brother, of some Glendree McNamara.
Now remember that you found a Thomas McNamara (No. 4) who opened an Emigrant Saving Bank Account in New York in 1862, the records of which show that he was born in Tulla, and that he was a son of Daniel McNamara and Anne Halloran (further records show that he did not take part in the Civil War). But that Daniel (and Anne) lived in Tyredagh, Upper. The baptisms (1819-1846) show some children born to Dan McNamara and Anne Halloran; address: Teereda and Tullacrag. He must be the same Daniel McNamara who is listed in Griffiths as leasing plot 21 in Tyredagh, Upper.
There’s another Daniel McNamara, for whom a letter of freedom was issued in 1828 (Tulla parish marriages 1819-1846): Daniel McNamara, Deraolk, to marry Anne Nugent from Feakle. The baptisms (1819-1846) show this couple in Uggoon and Carran Touhy.
In looking for Daniel McNamara of Glandree, can we rule out both these Daniel McNamaras? – I think so. At least it much more likely that Daniel (the father in those marriage records) was a son of a Glendree McNamara, but I can’t find a baptism for him.
Never mind. I will try not to be distracted by Daniel. It’s Thomas we are looking for.

By the way, I firmly believe you are right about Patrick aged 55 in 1901 when you say that his parents were Andrew Sheedy (McNamara) and Margaret Clancy.

Sheila

[Jimbo]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks as always for your feedback. I wanted to get back to Thomas McNamara #1, the son of Michael McNamara and Mary Cunningham born in 1833 in Glandree and comment on your earlier feedback. My theory was that this Mary and Michael McNamara only had 3 children due to Mary Cunningham becoming a widow. And that she married the widower Thomas Fahy in Glandree around April 1838. Sheila stated:

I will turn, instead, to Michael McNamara and Mary Cunningham, who, as you say, we know very little about. Their children were born 1828 – 1835. I agree that it’s possible that Mary Cunningham was widowed after 1835 and then married Thomas Fahy in Apr. – May 1838, who may, possibly, have been a widower by that time. But we are forgetting that, while the first baptism that was recorded for Thomas Fahy and Honor Cunningham was in 1820, that couple may have had children born to them before the baptism register was opened in 1819. And it’s very possible that Honor had done her 20 years of childbearing by 1837.

My main reasoning that Thomas Fahy was a widower when in 1838 he married Mary Cunningham, was not based upon the number of children born to Thomas and Honora Cunningham. The primary reason was that there appears to have been only one Thomas Fahy in Glandree. In the Tulla baptism transcriptions, there is a "Tom Fahy" and "Bid McNamara" who in Glandree had a son "John" on 17 May 1836 with sponsors "Patrick and Ellen Foly". But upon closer inspection, this "Tom Fahy" should be "Tom Foly" who with Bridget McNamara also had a son "Pat Foly" in 1838.

When Mary Cunningham married Thomas Fahy in 1838, I believe he was not just a widower, but a widower with at least six daughters and the youngest only 2 years old. There would have been a large incentive to remarry and provide a mother for his young children. The widow Mary Cunningham McNamara may have been an attractive bride as her three children included two sons. Together Thomas Fahy and Mary Cunningham would have one son John in May 1839. The fact that this couple had only one child (and possibly a second in 1841) supports that they were not a young couple in their 20's, but likely a second marriage for them both.

Previously I had mentioned that I hoped to discover what happened to Thomas McNamara #1 by finding out more about the combined Fahy / McNamara family and speculated that they may have immigrated. After further research I could find no further connection between the McNamara and Fahy children. Keeping in mind, that there was at least one other Mary Cunningham around Glandree at that time who could have married Thomas Fahy. The Fahy/Fahey surname is very common in County Galway, fairly common in County Clare but not many families in Tulla Parish and only one in Glandree. Most of the daughters of Thomas Fahy and Honora Cunningham appear to have remained in County Clare:

?) Possible births prior to start of baptism register in 1819

1) Bridget Fahy (1820): no marriage record, but in the Tulla baptism register Bridget Fahy and Michael Mara had the following children: Mary (1841), Bid (1844), Margaret (1847), Bridget (1852), Margaret (1855), Thomas (1859).

2) Mary Fahy (February 1822): possible marriage John Keane of Glandree on 24 January 1848.

?) Missing baptism period of March 1822 to November 1825.

3) Catherine Fahy (1829)

4) Anne Fahy (1832): no marriage record, but in the Tulla baptism record Anne Fahy and John Pepper had a son Thomas (1866) born in Tyreda. A John Pepper married an Anne Collins in 1865, so not sure which Anne is the widow Anne Pepper (age 64) in house 91 in Tulla in the 1901 census.

5) Ju? Fahy (1834):

6) Hannah Fahy (1837): "Mary Fahy" married John Molony of Newgrove on 2 August 1858. "Honora Fahy" and John Molony had a daughter Bridget on 19 September 1859 in Glandree.

John Fahy, the son born in 1839 to Thomas Fahy and Mary Cunningham, appears as a sponsor at the baptism of Bridget Molony in 1859 above. But John Fahy does not appear as a groom in the Tulla marriage register or as a father in the baptism register.

There was also a Margaret Fahy who married John Halloran of Drumcharley on 18 August 1860. The women in Tulla during this era appear to have commonly married about 19 or 20 years old. This Margaret could be the daughter of Thomas Fahy and Mary Cunningham born in the missing baptism period of May through July 1841. Margaret Fahy and John Halloran lived in Fontane south of Glandree and had five children.

A Walter Fahey (born 1826 in 1901 census) of Lisofin married a Margaret McNamara (born 1836 in 1901 census) on 18 February 1860 in the Tulla marriage register. They are living in Moygalla townland, Rossroe district in the 1901 census. This marriage in 1860 leads to a totally theoretical exercise relating to rules of affinity:

IF Walter Fahey was a son of Thomas Fahey, could he marry Margaret McNamara the daughter of Michael McNamara and Mary Cunningham, and step daughter of Thomas Fahey? Yes, because the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) removed the "affinity begot affinity" rule and the new axiom became: "affinity does not beget affinity", which is the principle followed in the modern Catholic Church (this is from wikipedia, if you are thinking of marrying a step sibling I would consult a priest).

So no sign of Thomas McNamara #1 (born 1833) with this further research. Perhaps Thomas McNamara and his half-brother John Fahy (born 1839) crossed the seas to fair Columbia shore to enlist as Union soldiers in the American Civil War?

'Tis sad to trace what change took place
Since the good old times of yore,
When Erin's sons did cross the seas
To fair Columbia shore.
Those green old hills and sparkling rills,
No more perchance to see;
Afar to roam from their native home,
On the Hills of Sweet Glandree.

[Sduddy]

Hi Jim

Thanks for that explanation for your reason for thinking that Thomas Fahy became a widower and for thinking that he might have then married Mary Cunningham in 1838 – your reason was that he appears to be the only Thomas Fahy in Glandree and therefore most likely to be the same Thomas Fahy who had earlier married Honora Cunningham.
When I was transcribing marriages, I assumed that the address given was that of the bride, because the marriage took place in the parish of the bride, and very often in the house of the bride’s father. But I gave the heading as “Residence” rather than “Bride’s Residence” because I was playing safe – maybe too safe – and when I am reading marriage records I continue to assume that the address is that of the bride – unless there is some evidence to the contrary. So, in the case of that marriage of Tom Fahy to Mary Cunningham, Glendree, 1838, it’s not clear to me that Tom came from Glendree.

Now if he is Thomas from Glandree, then I agree it is likely enough that he is the same Thomas who had married Honora Cunningham many years before – at least 20 years before. But it is also very possible that Thomas and Honora had a first son (born before 1819) and that he is the Tom who married Mary Cunningham in 1838.

You think this Mary Cunningham may have been the widow of Michael McNamara, and you mention the births to Tom Fahy and Mary Cunningham as being John born 1839 and possibly another born 1841. But I can’t find these baptisms, and need help with that.

Thanks, Jim, also, for that correction of “Fahy” to Foly”. I find that ever since the transcription was accepted as a donation, I can’t amend it, but I will note that correction by editing my posting on Tulla transcriptions. I’m so pleased that you are looking at the original entries – everyone should do that because there must be hundreds of similar errors. I’m proud of my shot at transcription, but I did admit to Murf at the time that I found Tulla exceptionally difficult. And my assumption, for instance, that Tyrera was the same place as Tyreda, shows the limitations and shortcomings of someone who does not know the place either by studying it, or by living in it (mind you, at this stage, I’m beginning to feel that I’m living in it). I am hoping very much that someone, or a group (maybe from Tulla), will follow up on my transcription and deliver a new, improved version. I don’t know how good the versions on Ancestry and Find My Past are, but the original material is so wonderful (records going right back to 1819), it is worthy of every effort.

Sheila

[Jimbo]

Hi Sheila,

Your transcriptions of the Tulla baptism and marriage registers are excellent. I'm not sure how you could have possibly made sense of such messy handwriting. Thank you for your tremendous effort. The search for the missing Thomas McNamara would never have been undertaken without your transcriptions. Being able to research the entire database sorted by date, groom/father, bride/mother is far superior than using a genealogy website that only provides search results. The format in Excel (versus pdf) allows individual lines of data to be cut & paste into other formats (such as my list of 16 missing Thomas Macks from Tulla) which is convenient. As far as not being able to complete further edits on the Clare Library site, truth be told I continue to access the transcriptions through the Clare Past Forum posting. I find its alphabetical index of all parishes much easier to use than the Clare Library page which is by submission date.

Thanks for the explanation on residences being reported on the marriage register. The 1819 to 1846 Tulla marriage register with two columns for "groom residence" and "bride residence" was more obvious than the 1846 to 1861 register that just has one column for "residence" (with a place name frequently added to the groom). So with the marriages of the Fahy sisters I most likely have the residences mixed up between bride and groom.

With your regards to your not finding the baptism of John Fahy:

Thomas Fahy married "Mary Cunningham" around April 1838, and in May 1839 he had a son John with "Bid Cunningham". Patt McNamara married "Margaret Foley" in February 1846, and in July 1848 he had a son with a "Kate Foley". John Molony married "Mary Fahey" in August 1858, and in September 1859 had a daughter with a "Honora Fahey". James Madigan married "Johanna McNamara" in February 1860, and in February 1861 he had a son with a "Mary McNamara". And as a slight variation, John Pepper married "Anne Collins" in May 1865, and had a son with "Anne Fahy" in April 1866.

These are just the marriages & subsequent births noted during the search for the missing Thomas McNamara of Glandree, albeit not the shortest of threads. Are these all just simple mistakes by the priest? Could the marriage records have been using the confirmation names for the brides? Or is there some other explanation besides that the priest made a mistake?

In the above examples, typically the mother's name on the baptism record was more accurate than the bride's name on the marriage record. For this reason, I now believe that Thomas Fahy could have just as well married a "Bridget Cunningham" in 1838 and not "Mary Cunningham" the possible widow of Michael McNamara and mother of Thomas McNamara #1. I still believe, however, that this Thomas Fahy of Glandree was a widower who had been married to Honora Cunningham. We can agree to disagree on this point as the search for Thomas McNamara of Glandree needs to move on. When researching Irish church records, it is easy to get bogged down.

[Sduddy]

Hi Jim

I hadn’t realised how often the bride’s name seems to differ from the mother’s. And, as you say, all those examples you give are from a really small sample. In the case of Bid Cunningham, in that baptism record for John Fahy, it’s possible that the priest got confused between the mother and the sponsor, who was also called Bid. I can understand that confusion, because I found, when I was transcribing, that I could never hold all of the names in my head at once and keep them in the correct order. I always got them mixed up. That may have something to do with my age. But that’s just it: the priest had to try to hold the names in his head, and maybe he was no longer young, and maybe a bit hard of hearing. Very often, I’m sure, he was called to a house because the woman giving birth seemed in danger of dying (people had a great fear of dying without the priest), and then found himself baptising the baby. I’m sure he carried the oil for anointing on such a visit, but I doubt very much if he carried pen, ink and register.
Anyway, I think it’s only when there’s a few records with the same names that one can be sure that they are the correct names.

I find it reassuring when the name in the baptism record matches a name in Tithes. And I see that Thomas Fahy is in the Tulla Tithes (1827), with Widow Cunningham right beside him. But then there’s M’l McNamara, and then three other Cunninghams – D’s, Mart and Jno. There’s also a Ja’s Cunningham in Glendree. In fact the GenMap shows Tulla parish as the hot spot for Cunninghams in Co. Clare. So we should bear in mind there may have been quite a few female Cunninghams in Glendree at the time of Tithes. I notice that by the time of Griffith’s Valuation, there are no Fahys and no Cunninghams in Glendree. What happened to John Fahy who was born in 1839? There are no Maras in Glendree in Tithes, but there are two in Griffith’s; Thomas and Michael. You are very likely right in saying that the Bridget Fahy, who married Michael Mara, was a daughter of Thomas Fahy – maybe his son John had died and Michael Mara married into the farm. Michael Mara's farm is just 5 acres, made up of five fragments, all lying adjacent to two of the three fragments that go to make up plot 49, the farm leased by Aw. McNamara Bawn. I wonder if they were connected by marriage. Thomas Mara was living in Miles Marony’s farm (plot 43), which Miles held jointly with Aw. McNamara Bawn.

So I do think you have somewhat better grounds for thinking that Thomas McNamara, born to Michael McNamara and Mary Cunningham in 1833, might have come to have Fahy half-siblings, than I have for thinking that John McNamara (married to Mary Kelly in Glendree) might have become a widower and then married Bridget Coffey. My grasping at a straw (the birth of a Mary McNamara to that couple in 1840) resulted in a piece of pure and utter speculation. It was only when I was over in Killaloe and found myself looking at records for a Lock Keeper called Daniel Morgan that I finally came to my senses. I could see that I was up to my neck in speculation. Nature abhors a vacuum, and amateur genealogists abhor a vacuum even more, and so speculation is allowed to come rushing in.

But I do think that when more civil records to become viewable, we will find something interesting to work on. In the meantime I will continue scrutinise anything you come up with!

Sheila