Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

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mwoolgen
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by mwoolgen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:02 am

Hi Viv and other followers

I've had a pretty lean time of it regarding the Collins/Connell connection also. It's good to hear that you have confidence in the John Collins/Canada connection. It gives us the marriage document describing Thomas Collins and Elizabeth Carter as John's parents. I haven't had much luck with the name Carter though and have been wondering if it isn't Carty or Carthy. This seems a more likely surname for the Clare/Limerick area. Still no matches however.

My closest clue is the death of Elizabeth Collins in Nov 1872 aged 80 - of Drumbigil- widow of cooper - in the presence of David Collins. I have previously felt very comfortable that our Jane had another brother, David, (cooper) who married Bridget Halloran.

I wouldn't discount the Collins/Connells of Limerick that you mention as being in some way related.

I'm looking back at Carty/Carthy to see if there is any link that would fit into our puzzle.

Looking forward to your update ...

Mike.

VLPerth
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:05 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by VLPerth » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:57 am

Hi Mike and all our invaluable assistants,

I just learned the valuable lesson that I must log in to this forum before writing a long reply. It seems to have disappeared.

The gist was:

Apologies that I haven't emailed you yet: extremely busy day compounded by late night;

Re Carter: absolutely agree. I've seen many examples of names incorrectly written down and/or transcribed - dad's German family after they came to England were a prime example of having a name and accent that bamboozled several decade's worth of census takers.

I shall continue to play around with the DNA matches and might have luck eventually and stumble across a Connell, or further Collinses. I hit the people related to John Collins of Canada pretty much immediately I began looking, and when I saw that he was a cooper and born in Ennis that left me so mind-boggled that I was incapable of pursuing other lines of enquiry. It may be that that's all we'll get from the DNA, but even if it is, having proof positive that we have strong genetic matches to this John Collins and his line is a solid bound forward, and I'm very happy that it shows that your hunch re Thomas and Elizabeth was correct. It's still a tiny bit moot I suppose whether they are Jane's parents or aunt/uncle, but they are definitely relatives and, as I said, the matches are so strong that I would highly suspect they are her parents.

What would be wonderful would be to find Jane's birth registry listing. I've had a play about on Ancestry to find children registered to Thomas and Elizabeth Collins around 1820 but haven't had any luck. Ancestry does suffer from poor transcription algorithms however, especially when it comes to old, possibly cramped or florid writing in church registers. On the other hand, it could just be that the records no longer exist. It might be worth enquiring directly with the Ennis parish, as mum and dad did when they visited and were given transcripts of Bridget (Delia) Connell's birth register entry and of Jane and Pat's marriage.

Re the Limerick lot, they share no DNA at all with our Connell/Collins line, so I do think it's a "common Irish family name" coincidence.

Best wishes,

Viv.

mwoolgen
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by mwoolgen » Sat May 25, 2019 6:53 am

Hi followers of this topic

I thought I'd update the Collins part of the story with some recent information that Viv has uncovered.

To recap, we have been interested in John Collins who married Honor Cunningham (1847) and together, with one or more children, made the dangerous journey to Canada towards the end of the famine period. Viv and I believe that John is the brother of our ancestor Jeane/Jane Connell (Collins). Viv has discovered a marriage record in Canada of John Collins to Rebecca Dove (1871). This is entirely consistent with census records in Canada which, in 1861 show John married to Honor with 5 children and then widowed in 1871 with 8 children – 5 common children and the right ages.

On the 1871 marriage record to Rebecca Dove, John's father and mother are recorded as Thomas Collins and Elizabeth O'Leary.

This corrects an earlier post where I proposed that Elizabeth’s maiden name was Carter/Carthy/Carty.

Thanks Viv, for staying on the case – watching my back.

Mike.

Sduddy
Posts: 1159
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by Sduddy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:14 am

Here is an obit for Michael Collins, who died on 16th November 1872, aged 36: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 267945.pdf
I feel sure he belongs to a branch of the Collins family discussed in this thread. Michael married Margaret Hanrahan on 13 June 1869. The civil record gives his age as 30, occupation: Cooper; address: Ennis; his father was also Michael Collins, also a Cooper. Margaret, aged 23, was the daughter of Austin Hanrahan, Farmer.
Michael and Margaret had two daughters, Mary Anne baptised 30 May 1870 (sponsors: Michael Daly, Maria Long), and Margaret baptised 20 Jan 1872 (sponsors: Michael Conyngham, Eliza Long). The address is Turnpike. (Drumcliff baptisms).

Clare Journal, Mon 18 Nov 1872:
Associated Trades of Ennis. Death of a Member. A deep feeling of sorrow has been felt by the people of this town within the last few days in consequence of the death of Michael Collins, master cooper, who died at his own residence after a few days illness, fortified by the rites of his Church. He was connected with some of the wealthiest and most respectable families of the farming class around Tulla, and was a first cousin to the late lamented Father Daly of Kilrush. He was a young man who through life ever bore the highest moral character, and, by his mild and gentle manners, won for himself the respect and esteem of all his acquaintances, in particular the men of his own trade – a respectable body of men. This funeral took place at 2 o’clock on Sunday, and was largely and most respectably attended. There were over fifty jaunting cars belonging to some of the most respectable families of Ennis in attendance. Several of the Trades walked, with white scarfs, after the hearse to Dromcliffe, as a mark of respect for the deceased, who leaves a wife and two children to mourn his loss, and for whom deep and heart felt sympathy is felt, as also for his aged and respected father, mother, and esteemed brother.
When the worlding’s wealth and miser’s gain
Is lost beneath the wreck of years,
The Christian’s deeds and patriot’s name
Shall be remembered and revered in tears.
So will the name of Collins live
For future ages to record –
That he lived on earth an honest man,
For which his soul today enjoys the Lord.
Sheila

mwoolgen
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by mwoolgen » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:50 am

Hi Sheila

I'm still here and regularly check this forum for any updates or related posts - as well as for the general information that is shared.
I haven't progressed much on this side of the ancestors but your discovery has given me a boost and I shall see what more detailed investigation of Michael's family reveals in relation to my Jeane/Jane Collins - who I am yet to pin to parents.
What type of access is available to the Clare Journal - from Australia ? I would love to be able to search and browse such a source.
Thanks for continuing to research and share ...

Mike.

Sduddy
Posts: 1159
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Connell / Collins - Drumcliff

Post by Sduddy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:29 pm

Hi Mike

It’s good to hear that you are still interested. The https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk has digitalized The Clare Journal and Ennis Advertiser (1835 – 1872), The Clare Freeman and Ennis Gazette (1855 – 1884), The Clare Advertiser and Kilrush Gazette (1869 – 1887), plus a lot of other Irish newspapers, of course. Last November I paid £79.95 (= €92.91) for one year subscription, but don’t be put off by that – you can get just one month, or three months as well - go to that site and click on "subscribe" to get the current rates.
There are a couple of problems with the newspapers of the 19th century:
(1) They did not cater to people who could not afford to buy them. Most people never get a mention in the papers. If you were poor, or working class, you would need to be accused of something – then your name might appear in the newspaper report of the Petty Sessions held in Ennis, Killadysart, Corofin, etc. (there were not many reports from Tulla), or you would need to get some part of you mangled in a machine, or die a gruesome death, or at least some kind of unusual death interesting enough to be reported.
(2) There are some gaps. My reason for subscribing was to find out a bit more about the period between 1850 and 1855, a period very much passed over in the history books, but I found that none of the issues of the Clare Journal between 1851 and 1855 had been digitalized. If I had subscribed for just a month, I would have discovered this – so that’s probably the best thing to do. As it was, I carried on regardless and have been finding various bits and pieces that I think might be of general interest.
But, I should say that the existence of poor people is acknowledged very often. Every winter much publicity was given to a fund established to provide assistance, especially fuel, to the poor of Ennis. The Clare Freeman and Ennis Gazette, of Sat 28 December 1872, reports:
The amount of cash issued to the poor on Monday and Tuesday last by the Ennis Relief Committee was £120. In the Mill-street district there were 243 families, comprising 1156 persons relieved; in Jail-street district 175 comprising 566 persons relieved; in Church-street district 177 families comprising 615 persons relieved.
I think the report of the death of Michael Collins was accepted for publication because someone in the Associated Trades was able to write an obituary which was readymade for publication, and which mentions his respectability often enough to make his death a suitable one for inclusion in the highly respectable Clare Journal and Ennis Advertiser. I think Michael’s widow died soon afterwards - at least, I think this Margaret Collins is his widow: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 267948.pdf
Her death was not reported in the newspaper. There were two infant children, Mary Anne and Margaret, now orphans, who might have been taken into the Mercy Convent Orphanage, or might have been taken by relatives of Margaret, or of Michael.

Sheila

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