Carrig/ O'Connor

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Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:24 pm

I have connected with the person researching Martin Carrig and she has the death certificate of Martin Carrig and his parents are listed as Timothy Carrig and Bridget Tierney matching my Michael Carrig's parents! So Michael and Martin are indeed brothers! Unfortunately that's about as far as we both have gotten, but even that is exciting to me.
A funny thing happened when I was recently in Ireland, I snapped a photo randomly to what I thought might be Ballyvara, ( listed as one of the places my ancestors lived), it came up on my phone as being Carnane, where I know believe my Carrig's lived. They must have been guiding me.

Sduddy
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:58 am

Hi Blondie

That is most satisfactory. The Australian and U.S death records are great. We depend on them a lot because Irish death records do not give the parents’ names. Thanks for sending the update.

Sheila

Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:25 am

Another update. I matched for DNA with someone through Ancestry. They have Patrick Carrig in their line,so I can assume my Michael and Patrick are related,most likely brothers as we figured. I hope to find more connections through my DNA.

Sduddy
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:37 am

Hi Blondie

I am pleased to hear that you have made contact with another descendant. Yes, I strongly suspect that Michael, your ancestor, was eldest in the family and that Patrick was the youngest. Michael was married in 1868 so probably born in the early 1840s and Martin came soon after (about 1845, we reckoned). Patrick was born in 1860, so there was a gap of almost 20 years between Michael and Patrick – not at all unusual for Irish families right up to the 1950s. So, strange as it might seem, Michael’s daughter, Susan/Johanna, born 1869, was a first cousin of Patrick’s children born 1900 – 1912. Patrick’s children are Thomas b. 1900, Patrick b. 1902, Austin b. 1904 (died 1910), Martin b. 1905, Mary b. 1907, and Austin b. 1912. For this info I checked Patrick Carrigg, Carrowmanagh North (Kilshanny DED) in the 1901 census and in the 1911 census and then I checked irishgenealogy.ie for the years between 1901 and 1917.
If the contact you have made is a grandchild of Patrick, then Michael and Martin are her/his granduncles, and s/he may have some clues as to the others in that family – I’m sure there were some sisters born in the years between the early 1840s and 1860.
Patrick Carrigg and his wife Nora Carrigg (nee McMahon) are buried in Kilshanny graveyard: http://www.interment.net/data/ireland/c ... shanny.htm

Sheila

Blondie
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:37 pm

Thanks for responding Sheila. So far the contacts I have made don't have much more information than I do. The one new piece of information I did get was that Patrick was briefly married to a Mary McMahon before Nora. Apparently she died. They didn't know if Mary and Nora were related.
Thanks for finding the children of Patrick and Nora. I had some but not all. I never saw the 2 Austins. Interesting that they named another child after the one who died. Was that a typical practice in Ireland?

Sduddy
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:59 am

Yes indeed, giving another child the same name was typical.

Sheila

Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:11 am

Another question. I was trying to find the 2nd born Austin Carrig of Patrick and Nora Carrig and I came across a gravestone in Ennistymon Cemetary that lists an Austin Carrig,d.1956,but there is also a Mary Carrigg and 5 or 6 other people with the name McGuire. I dont know if this the Austin I'm looking for but I'm wondering why 2 Carrigs are buried with this McGuire family? Is this typical?

murf
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Qld Australia

Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by murf » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:31 am

Hi Blondie
This is not unusual, and can usually explained by a marriage between the two families.
In this case, if you seek out the birth certificate of Austin Carrigg, born 2 Sep 1903, you find that he is the offspring of Michael Carrigg and Mary McGuire.
In the 1911 census this family resides at house 7 in Old Town St, Ennistymon, comprising Michael and Mary, four children and a 41 year old female visitor with the family name McGuire.
Michael died in 1931, and Mary in 1949. The five or six McGuires are undoubtedly members of Mary's family.
Cheers, murf

Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:18 pm

Through Ancestry DNA , I may have found another piece of my family puzzle. I am a 4th-6 cousin match with someone who has the name Fitzgerald in their tree. My Hannah O'Connor was born Fitzgerald, in 1807 and I was beginning to think maybe she was born in another county. This person has a John Fitzgerald born in 1825 in Carran , Clare and then his son Frances born in 1845 in Iskancullen, Carran. He then marries a Mary Walsh and they have several children also born there. I'm wondering if John born in 1825 is Hannah's nephew or possibly her younger brother? Either way I feel as though I should search for my Hannah in Carran.

Sduddy
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:17 pm

Hi Blondie

It’s going to be difficult to find any records for Hannah O’Connor nee Fitzgerald, who was born about 1807. The Carron parish records, which have survived, start at 1853.

My feeling is that Hannah belongs to the Fitzgeralds who are shown living in the parishes of Killilagh and Kilmoon in Tithes and Griffiths. I notice that the Lisdoonvarna parish records show Fitzgeralds living in Caherbarnagh (in the parish of Kilmoon), Lough (in the parish of Killilagh) and Annagh, which I think may be near Ballyvara in the parish of Killagh, but can’t be sure. Those Fitzgeralds may be connected to the Carron Fitzgeralds, of course. But it’s going to be very difficult to find evidence of that.

Hannah Fitzgerald married Isaac O’Connor (probably about 1830) and the records show plenty of O’Connors in Killilagh. But the first-name Isaac is a very rare in Co. Clare – I’ve come across Isaac Cooper just now when trancribring the Kilrush baptisms, but I think that’s about the only time I’ve met with that name.
Is that death record you found a typed version of a hand-written record I wonder.I can see how the name Patrick, when written as Pat’k, might look like Isaak. I can see how “Jack”, if it was a scribbled, might looked like Isaak. But the typist (if the record was typed) typed Isaac – not Isaak.

Am I right in thinking that when you say “ Cant find her Mom either (Hannah Fitzgerald O'Connor)and I know for sure she is from Clare as that is on her grave” you mean the grave (in America) of Hannah Carrigg nee O’Connor?

Sheila

Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:33 pm

Hi Sheila,
Yes, the death certificate is handwritten, and clearly says Issac but I agree with you, that name is not common at all. I'm guessing somebody verbalized the name to the transcriber and they did not hear it properly,or they copied off another document and it was misinterpreted. I don't know why,but I feel like its John O'Connor for some reason.
AS for Fitzgerald, I will check the places you suggested and hope to hear back from the DNA match. I want to find how they came up with that info about Carran.
Thank you for all your help
Colleen

Sduddy
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:09 am

Hi Colleen

Still I think we must continue to allow that Isaac might have been Isaac. It’s possible that no record of Isaac O’Connor’s existence has survived, other than that mention of him in the record of his daughter Anne’s death (Anne Carrigg nee O’Connor). This situation is not unusual because so many records in Ireland have been lost, burned, or pulped.
We haven’t found him in Tithes or in Griffiths, but that is not too surprising: very likely he did not yet hold any land when the Tithe books for Kililagh were drawn up in 1826. And it is just possible that he had died by the time of Griffith’s Valuation in the 1850s.
He is not recorded as the father of any of the O’Connors baptised the Lisdoonvarna parish, but I did not expect to find him there. The register does not start until 1853 when his wife, Hannah, would have been aged 46.
I checked to see if there was a death record for Isaac O’Connor, but found none. The registration of deaths did not become law until 1864 and, if Isaac was born in the early 1800s, it’s quite possible that he had died before 1864.

I looked for a record of the death of Hannah O’Connor under Ennistymon and Ballyvaughan but failed to find it. And even if I did find an Anne/Hannah O’Connor/Connors who fitted with a birth year of about 1807, I might still not be sure that she was your Anne/Hannagh.

It seems that the marriage of Anne O’Connor and Michael Carrigg (1867) was not registered, but it occurred to me that one of the other children of Hannah and Isaac might have married locally and that a record of that marriage would give the Isaac’s name and address and occupation. So I looked at records of O’Connor/OConnor/Connor marriages between 1870 and 1885 in the Ennistymon Union and, because there were so many, I noted just those that were registered in Roadford*, but none showed Isaac O’Connor as the father. Maybe some O’Connor sons married outside the parish* – but that’s another days work!

Sheila

*The other registration offices within the Union of Ennistymon are Ennistymon itself and Miltown Malbay.

*For instance, I noted, in passing, that a Michael O’Connor, from Roadford, son of James O’Connor, married Bridget Looney in Inagh in 1888.
Last edited by Sduddy on Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Blondie
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Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 pm

Thank you again for all your work. I suspect Ann was Hannah's last child as according to what's on Anne's grave she was born in 1852. That would mean her mother was in her late 40's when she had her.As you know the age of people is not always correct. I've seen Ann listed on US census as a couple years older. I know Ann and Michael came to the US in 1871 and the next record I find of them is in the 1880 US census and Hannah O'Connor is living with them at age 75. I assume she lived with them until 1892 when she died.
I assumed Hannah was a widow the question is was she a widow before she came to the States and did other children come other than Ann?
Also on the church record of Ann and Michaels daughter, Johanna( Susan), born 1870, they list Ballyvara as their home. In Griffiths , the only O'Connor I see is a is a Thomas, living in Ballyvara.Are there any records other than that, that would show who lived there in 1870?
Again , thank you so much for your hard work.

Sduddy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Sduddy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:35 pm

Thanks Colleen, it’s good to have that extra bit of information. So Hannah died at the ripe old age of 92 in 1899. Did you get a record of her death? That might give the name of her husband and confirm it as Isaac.
Could it be that her daughter, Anne, born 1852, was only 15 when she married Michael Carrick in 1867?

Yes, I see Thomas O’Connor in Ballyvara. He is leasing plot 13 (20 acres plus house), from Edward Arthur Gore (Landlord). I looked at the list of marriages that I’d noted as being registered in Roadford, but none of them show Thomas O’Connor, Ballyvara, as the father.
The Lisdoonvarna baptisms show the baptisms of 5 children of a Thomas O’Connor and Honor McMahon between 1858 and 1868. The address is Annagh in 1858, Cronagort in 1860 (Cronagort is adjacent to Annah), and Boherbue in 1863, Cronagort in 1866 and Annagh in 1868. This Thomas might be the Thomas who is shown in Griffiths, or maybe he is a son of that Thomas. As he was married before 1864 I can’t find out who his father was.
He may be a brother of Daniel O’Connor who is married to Susanna/Johanna/Judy/Sera Molony. Their address (in the Lisdoonvarna baptisms) is usually given as Annagh, but on one occasion it is given as Ballyvara. Again, as Daniel was married before 1864, I can’t find out who his father was.
Daniel had a son called Thomas (born about 1853): the 1911 census shows a Thomas O’Connor aged 58 and his wife Margaret aged 62, living in Ballyvara, and shows that they had been married for 29 years. This must be the Thomas O’Connor, aged 26, whose marriage to Margaret O’Connor, aged 27, was registered in Roadford (Ennistymon Union) in 1882. His address is Ballagh(?) and his father is Daniel O’Connor (dead).
Unfortunately, it seems that the death of Daniel was not registered, so we do not know when he was born. His widow, Susan, died in Feb. 1911, aged 84, so she was born about 1827 and it’s likely that Daniel was born before that. So he may have been 20 years younger than Isaac. But, whatever the relationship between Thomas, Daniel and Isaac, I think that the birth of Isaac’s granddaugher, Johanna/Susan, in Ballyvara, in 1870, is a strong indication that they were related to some degree.

Sheila

P.S. In my last posting I forgot to mention that I did not look up marriages between 1860 and 1870 because irishgenealogy hasn’t made the images for those viewable as yet. When that happens, we can look at those and check the fathers.

Blondie
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Carrig/ O'Connor

Post by Blondie » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:48 pm

Once again through DNA, I believe I have found some information. Believe it or not , I think my Hannah O'Connor is some how related to the O'Connors that own the famous Gus O'Connor. As cool as that would be, I really would just like to be able to trace my roots.
I share DNA with a couple people who are connected to that O'Connor family. One man is in his 90's , His mother/Grandmother was Gus's grandmother. ( Mary Cooney). He says he is also connected to the Fitzgeralds of Fisher Street. (my Hannah's maiden name).
I have been able to see back as far as Gus's grandfather Francis O'Connor,born about 1865, would anyone know the history that family before then? Who actually started the pub?
I'd appreciate any help.
Thank You.

I just found another family tree that lists Gus O'Connors Grandfather as Michael O'Connor born in 1858 in Liscannor and his grandmother as Katherine Claire born 1861. I'm not sure which is correct. I have a hunch it is this later one as the tree seems pretty extensive.

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