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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:35 am 
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Hi Blondie

I wonder if can you give a little more information? Does the record giving Timothy Carrig and Bridget Tierney as the parents of Michael Carrigg also give Anne O’Connor as his spouse? Can you be sure that the record is for “your” Michael Carrigg, and not some other Michael Carrigg?
I ask because the only Timothy Carrigg I can find in Griffith’s is Timothy Carrige in Inchicronan, which is twenty miles, or more, from Killilagh. There may have been another Timothy Carrigg living closer to Killilagh, who is not listed in Griffith’s. Griffith’s lists only those people who were liable for the payment of rates.
I’ve looked at Timothy Carrige in Inchicronan. He died in 1901, a couple of months before the census was taken, aged 84. His widow, who appears in the census, is Honor. Timothy had married Honor on June 3rd, 1869, in Ennis parish church. He was a widower; she was a widow. She had been married to a Patrick Curtin and the Crusheen parish register shows the baptisms of their children (Crusheen is main village in Inchicronan parish and is often used as the name of the parish).
However, I can find no record that gives the name of Timothy’s first wife. The baptisms of the children of his first marriage do not appear in the Crusheen parish register, which starts at 1860.
The only other item of information, which may be of use, is that Timothy Carrige’s father was Hugh Carrige (according to the 1869 marriage record). But before you start researching Hugh Carrige, do make sure that the death record you got is for your Michael.

Sheila


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Sheila,
Thank you so much for your response. I actually am not 100% sure as his DOB doesn't match the one I have . Although that's unclear also because on every US census, he gives a different DOB. It only lists him as a widower , with no mention of his wife's name, but it lists him as being from the same town my ancestor lived in and death coincides with his obituary. That seems like a big coincidence.
As for Ann O'Connor ( I'm 100% sure of her ), I would think her father in particular , would be easy to find with a name like Isaac but but I've not found him. I wonder if he went by another name? Cant find her Mom either ( Hannah Fitzgerald O'Connor)and I know for sure she is from Clare as that is on her grave.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:12 pm 
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I checked with the city clerk where Michael Carrigg died and no other Michael Carrig died in all of 1915. The only thing I am absolutely positive about is his date of is his place and date of death, so I would say, this is my ancestor. Sounds like his father, Timothy was widowed from Bridget Tierney but for some reason there is no record?


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:05 am 
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Good. We can take it that your Michael is the son of Timothy Carrige and Bridget Tierney.
But we would be taking a leap if we were to say that the Timothy Carrige of Inchicronan is the same Timothy – just because we know that Inchicronan Timothy was a widower when he married secondly in 1869. We really need to know the name of Timothy’s first wife. She may have died before 1864, and, in that case her death would not have been registered (registration of births, deaths and marriages starts in 1864). So, just in case she died sometime between 1864 and 1869, I looked on www.irishgenealogy.ie. and found that the death of a Bridget Carrigge was registered in Ennis in 1867. But it turns out that that Bridget was a widow when she died, so can’t be the wife of Timothy (who lived until 1901).
Carrigg is spelled in such a variety of ways that it is difficult to be sure when all options have been explored. Timothy is Thady, by the way, in the record of his second marriage – Timothy and Thady are the same name. Delia is the same name as Bridget, so I looked for the death of Delia Carrigg as well, but found nothing that fits.

None of Timothy’s first family seems to have remained in Crusheen – at least the 1901 census shows only his second family.

The inscriptions on the headstones in Doon, Kilawinna, the Island (all graveyards in Crusheen parish) have not been transcribed – or at least they are not online. Paddy Casey has donated those for Kiltoola graveyard to clarelibrary, but these show no Carrigg.

I looked in the Calendar of Wills but found nothing there: http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchiv ... a/home.jsp

If I get a flash of inspiration I will let you know.

Sheila


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Thank you Sheila. All I know is my Michael Carrig , somehow ended up in the Kililagh parish to marry a , Ann, (Hannah, Johanna) O'Connor( Connors).
Seems like everyone else's Carrigg have been sort of easy to track, but not mine!! Very frustrating!!


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:52 am 
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I was looking again at the baptismal record for Johanna Carrigg and noted that one of the sponsors was Biddy Carrigg. This led me to suspect that the family of Michael Carrigg might have been living in Killilagh, or thereabouts. So I looked under Ennistymon on www.irishgenealogy.ie for a Timothy Carrigg and found the death, in 1872, of a Timothy Carrigg, age 50. The image of the record was not available so I followed the instructions and sent for it. I had never sent for a record before and was happy to try out this facility. Well, one week later, or so, I’ve got the record by email, which is very good I think.

The record shows that Timothy Carrigg, 1822 – 1872, died in Carnane; that he was married, and that it was a Martin Carrigg who had reported the death. Carnaun is a townland in the parish of Kililiagh. The record does not say that Martin is Timothy’s son, but I think he might be.

www.irishgenealogy.ie shows the births of three children to Martin Carrigg and Bridget Finn, Carnane: Mary (1870), Norry (1872), Bridget (1876) – all registered in Roadford. I hoped to find a marriage record for Martin – this would have given the name of his father – but I failed to find it. And there is no record of the death Martin – this would have given his age. And I can’t find Martin in the 1901 census.

I noted that the death of a Bridget Carrigg, aged 80, was registered in Ennistymon in 1897. This time the image of the record is provided. It shows that she died, a widow, in Carnaun, and that it was her son Patrick who had reported her death. I then looked for Patrick in the 1901 census and found a Patrick, aged 40, living, not in Carnaun, but in Carrowmanagh, North, Kilshanny parish. This townland is adjacent to the townland of Carnaun, in Killilagh parish, and I believe that he is the same Patrick. He is married to Norah and they have one child, Thomas. The birth of the child (Nov. 21st 1900) was registered in Roadford and the record shows that Norah was Norah McMahon. The address is Carnaun. Then I looked at the 1911 census which shows that Patrick and Norah had, by then, been married 11 years. With a view to finding out Patrick’s father’s name, I looked for the registration of their marriage, but failed to find it (Why were so many marriages in this district not registered?).

In order to link Timothy (1822-1872) to Bridget (1817-1897), we would have to establish that Martin and Patrick were brothers. At first glance it seems unlikely: Martin’s children were born in the 1870s; Patrick’s children were born thirty years later. But it is possible. We know that Patrick was born about 1860, when his mother, Bridget, was aged about 43 - he may have been her last child – and we know that he was aged 39 when he married. And we can imagine that Martin was born about 15 years earlier than Patrick – say about 1845 – when Timothy was aged 23, and we can imagine that he married about 1869 when he (Martin) was aged 24.

That is a lot of imagining. But I do think that Timothy Carrigg of Carnane is a safer bet than Timothy Carige of Inchicronan/Crusheen.

Sheila


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Oh my gosh, thank you so much for all your work!! I agree that the Timothy you found is more likely to be Michaels father than the other one. I will see if I can find s connection here in the States between Martin and / or and Michael. Thank you again.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Since Ballyvara is listed as a place where Ann and Michael live when they have daughter Susan,it makes a lot more sense since Carnane is quite close.
Also,where would these people be buried if they died there? Kililagh Church graveyard?


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:27 pm 
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I found this on a message board on Ancestry.I am no longer a member so could not respond,but I'm pretty sure these are the same people,as someone mentioned their children as well in another post.

"Think Denis' brother was Patrick Finn who married Margaret Kelly. Their daughter Bridget Finn (b1846) married Martin Carrig(b1843)County Clare,Ireland and emigrated to NZ in 1876."


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:44 am 
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That is an interesting find. I googled “Martin Carrigg New Zealand” and see that somebody else is looking for the names Martin’s father and siblings and has posted that Martin died in 1907. If death records in New Zealand are as informative as those in Australia, Martin’s death record would give his father’s and his mother’s name (how brilliant that would be) but I strongly suspect that the researcher has tried that route and found nothing.

But it’s a good idea to find what records we can for this family of Carriggs, just as long as we keep in mind that we are not sure that they are “your” Carriggs.

I found Patrick Carrigg (in Carrowmanagh, North, in the 1901 census), and Nora Carrigg are buried in Kilshanny graveyard: http://www.interment.net/data/ireland/c ... shanny.htm

This may be an old Carrigg grave, which had been unmarked previous to the death of Patrick, or there may be an old Carrigg grave elsewhere. The Carriggs are not listed in Griffith’s Valuation as leasing a farm in Carnaun, or in Carrowmanagh, North, but I see from the transcription of the McNamara Rental donated to clarelibrary.ie: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ate_et.htm that there was a Carrigg in Carnaun in 1863.

Sheila


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Thank You again Sheila for all your research. Of course everyone else lists their first name on that McNamara Rental,but not the Carrigg!
Maybe my ancestors don't want to be found! We were told as kids not to look up our family history in Ireland. Maybe they weren't upstanding citizens!'


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:47 am 
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The name Finn connected to NZ attracted my interest, as I have Finns (from Sligo) in NZ and thought I would check where the Bridget Finn, married to Martin Carrig settled in NZ. She and Martin can be found in the Otago district, with electoral rolls and a directory showing both living in Waitaki area, also one entry showing an Austin Finn in same town. Could he be related? his first listing is 1876. There is a death of an Austin Finn in 1898 (Sth Canterbury), born about 1836; a marriage of Austin and Ann Droney can be found in NZ 1869.

There is a death of a Martin Carigg in 1907 (registered in Auckland, but he was buried in Christchurch) and Bridget and daughters appear (she noted as widow) in Christchurch in a 1911 electoral roll - daughters appear to be Agnes, Catherine (born NZ 1883), Elizabeth (born NZ 1887), Mary - there are also births of Patrick (1882), Margaret (1878) and Ann (1885) all in NZ. Bridget's death was possibly the one listed 1922, Christchurch, with another death of a Bridget Carrig in Christchurch in 1931. NZ death certs of this period give a lot of detail, so are worth purchasing online.

cheers, Kerry


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:53 am 
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PS - further to Austin Finn, possibly being brother of Bridget Finn married to Martin Carrig (emigrated to NZ) - I have just found a death cert posted at Ancestry - showing Austin Finn's father as Denis Finn and mother as Bridget Connors; Austin born in Co Clare about 1836.

Kerry


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:51 am 
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Hi Blondie

It may be some time before you get any record that gives you the names of Martin Carrigg’s parents, and I see from another thread (asking about visiting the library) viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6876, that you plan to be in Ennis in September. So I think you should assume, for now, that the Carriggs in Carnaun are yours, and make your plans accordingly.
I feel sure that you will also go to Killilagh and, with a bit of luck, you will meet somebody who will be able to tell you where the Carriggs lived. When looking at the death records for Patrick Carrigg in 1935 and Nora Carrigg in 1964, I noted that neither of them was living in Carnaun at the time of death, but it may be that they had moved to a new house, or gone to live with a married daughter, or some such. Patrick was living in Boherbee (Boherboy), Killilagh, and Nora was living in Knocknaskeagh in Kilshanny. By now the old house may be just a ruin.

If you fail to meet anyone who knows where the Carriggs lived in Carnaun, there is another way to find out, but it involves a journey to Dublin*:
Griffith’s Valuation, as I’ve already said, listed people who were liable for the payment of rates. The revisions to this list (called “Valuation Books”) are held in the Valuation Office: www.valoff.ie in the Irish Life Centre, Abbey St Lower, in Dublin. It is several years since I went there, but I remember my surprise at finding it a very “human” place, and the staff very helpful. If memory serves me right, you go to the desk and ask for the books for Carnaun townland in Killilagh parish. You will need to go through the Killilagh book to find the entries for Carnaun. You start at the back of the book and go forward - for detailed advice go to http://timeline.ie/finding-your-irish-r ... on-office/ . You will see that, as the farms passed from one person to another, the name of the first tenant was crossed out and the name of the new tenant was entered above it. I suspect that the very first revision will show you when Timothy Carrigg came to the townland of Carnaun. Then you will need to note who the previous tenant was and the number (on the left hand side) of the tenancy (or farm, in this case). This number should correspond to one in the “Griffith’s” map on www.askaboutireland.ie and hopefully it will become clear just where Carrigg farm was situated.

*You can order a copy of a revision at http://timeline.ie/irish-genealogy-cler ... ion-books/, but I’ve never used this facility and can’t vouch for it.

How to get to the Irish Life Centre if you are taking a train from the west of Ireland: When you arrive at Heuston Train Station in Dublin, take the “Luas” – an overground train that goes from the platform closest to the main door of the station, and which will get you to the centre of the city (though it might say “Connolly” on front).
When you are buying your train-ticket (in Ennis, or Limerick, or wherever), ask for the Luas (pronounced “Loo-ass”) to be included. This will save you figuring out how to operate the Luas ticket-dispenser in Dublin.
On the Luas, when you hear “Abbey Street ” announced (it is the 5th stop along), leave the Luas (Wynn’s Hotel is nearby) and walk ahead going in the same direction as the Luas. Go by the Peacock Theatre and keep an eye on the left-hand side of the street. You will soon see the Irish Life Centre. There’s a fountain with large sculpture of a charioteer and horses in front. Go up the steps to this and go to the right hand side and there is the Valuation Office.

The only bit of information this trip will provide is where the farm was situated – it may show that it passed from Timothy to Martin to Patrick, but it won’t tell you what the relationship between them was. And remember the office closes at 4.30 pm.

Sheila


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 Post subject: Re: Carrig/ O'Connor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Unfortunately, I will not be going to Dublin this trip, but thank you for the information. Even though I can't be sure Timothy Carrig was from my direct line, I will visit Carnaun while in Doolin. Since I know for sure that Ballyvara was a place Michael and Ann Carrigg did live, I will be going there and Carnaun is just around the corner. Thanks again for all your help Sheila.


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