John and Bridget (nee Gready) CARROLL

[dillas]

John CARROLL married Bridget GREADY before sailing from County Clare to Pt Adelaide South Australia leaving Plymouth on the 14 Oct 1855 and arriving 22 January 1856. No childen are listed so possibly they were married not long before leaving.
They travelled in the ship the "Australia". They were Roman Catholic.
John CARROLL was born 1830-31 in County Clare and Bridget Gready 1832-3.
In South Australia they farmed near Kapunda- shipping records show John as a labourer in Ireland.
In later years they lived at Brompton, a suburb of Adelaide where they died. John in 1906, Brodget in 1904.
The names of their children were William James, Henry, John Edward, Honora, Coleman, Catherine, Thomas Domenick Joseph and Michael Patrick Carroll. (There may be a pattern there?!)
I am trying to find where in Clare they came from and would like to contact anyone researching these families. Clare was given as birthplace on both hospital records and shipping details of John CARROLL.
They are my maternal gggrandparents.
Anne Leech
Rostrevor
S Aust

[Paddy Casey]

Anne,

It will probably be quite difficult to find out where this couple came from in Clare (unless somebody who is working on the same family pops up on this forum). However, there is an approach which might identify some possible localities. Assume that Bridget's name was indeed Gready and not Grady or O'Grady. Assume that John and Bridget's families lived very close to each other (the 5 Mile rule-of-thumb says that in rural environments in the 19th century 90% of the marriages were between families located 5 miles or less from each other). Now go through the Tithe Applotment records at http://www.clarelibrary.ie to identify localities where Greadys and Carrolls appear in the same parish in townlands which were quite near to each other. For example, I quickly found one parish, that of Obriensbridge, where both names appear in proximity to each (see http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... oe_tab.htm ). You may find several other examples in the County. Once you have a shortlist of these parishes you can go to their baptism records (if such exist) and see whether you can find John and Bridget. Others on this forum can give you advice about trawling the baptism records.

This procedure is laborious and may not be successful but you never know.

Paddy

[dillas]

Thank you Paddy for your suggestions. I am new to Irish research as I always put it in the too hard basket but on finding the county my Carrolls came from I have renewed my interest. Can you give me a quick lesson on townland and parish. I can understand there are counties and parishes but what is a townland?
I see your idea about the 5 mile family connection. I will trawl as many sites I can find online and spend some time on it. Would you think Gready, Grady and even O'Grady would be interchangeable? I have found many of these names but not many Carrolls. Am I to understand Clare is not really a Carroll county? Then again that should make it easier!
If anything is easy!
Cheers
Anne

[Paddy Casey]

Anne,

Quick lesson on townland and parish ? See http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... places.htm

Trawling as many sites as you can find online ? My emphatic advice is not to do that but to go for the "quick wins", aka "low hanging fruit", the lowest-hanging of the latter being the Clare County Library site at http://www.clarelibrary.ie It is crammed full of detailed and reliable information which is central to your search. Set aside an initial 3 weeks to be devoted exclusively to the information on that site. Get a stock of convenience food in the house or order in pizzas. Cancel all appointments. Unplug the phone. Don't answer email.

New to Irish research ? Sharon Carberry posted a very useful list of primers and tutorials on this forum. I can't find it, probably because I'm using the wrong Search keywords. Sharon: can you jump in here, please ?

Interchangeability of Gready, Grady and even O'Grady ? I'm not an academic expert on the origins of Irish names but I do know that the spelling of names, Irish or otherwise, was often determined phonetically by the transcriber of the name (e.g. an immigration official or a census-taker) and that the owners of the names retained those changed spellings simply because the new versions had been propagated through official registers and could no longer be changed. So if one is searching databases for a given name one should mutter the name to oneself several times and imagine the different ways it could be transcribed by someone who was of a different tongue or hard of hearing or drunk or poorly literate or all four.

Carroll a common name in Clare ? It's all on the Clare Library site. See http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... mbined.htm

Off you go !

Paddy

[mcreed]

There's an interesting article on the Gready/Grady/O'Grady names at http://www.araltas.com/features/grady/ which says that "There is a constant tendency for uncommon names to be assimilated to better known ones of a similar sound: thus Gready tends to become Grady, as does Graddy in Kerry."

Also, that link Paddy has given to the combined surnames list on the Clare Library site should really be a first port of call for visitors to the site looking for ancestors (http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... mbined.htm). It shows that there were 242 Carrolls in the 1901 Census, 76 Carrolls in the 1855 Griffith's Valuation and 58 Carolls in the 1820s Tithe Applotment Books.

Sharon's list of reading material for researching is at http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... erry+guide

Regards,
Mike

[dillas]

Paddy and Mike thank you both for your guidance. Thankfully it's winter here and we are having a real one (ie we are getting a bit of rain at last ) for the first time for years so being inside at the computer is going to be a treat.
I realise it would be a pure fluke if anyone is researching this family so i know i have to put in the hard yards.
Again thanks
Anne

[smcarberry]

Here's the list of recommended books for anyone doing Irish research, not just newbies:

Irish records : sources for family and local history
Ryan, James G. ISBN 0916489760

Tracing your Irish ancestors : the complete guide
Grenham, John ISBN 0806313692

Radford, Dwight A. & Kyle J. Betit,
Discovering Your Irish Ancestors
2001

Ouimette, David S.,
Finding Your Irish Ancestors: A Beginner's Guide
2005

Once you have narrowed down the geographical area in Clare that is your target for your specific family, you will need a good map. Again the Clare Library website is a resource, and it is good to have a paper one, for which most of us use
an Ordnance Survey map which is available through merchants selling online and in Irish bookstores. My ancestors' part of East Clare is on Discovery Series No. 58.

You may will find a wealth of information on the O'Grady sept in Gerard Madden's 2007 book entitled History of the O'Gradys of Clare and Limerick. It has it all - famous men, manor houses, genealogical charts dating back into foggy old times, etc. I checked the index for a Carroll mention, but there was none, and I also did not locate quickly any description of surname variations.

Sharon Carberry
USA

[dillas]

I have been overwhelmed by the responses to my requests on this list. Thank you also to Sharon. The staff at the library go beyond the call of duty to help and I will thank them personally. Suffice to say I have had much of the work done for me. The secret with this game is knowing where to look and so their help has enabled me to move on to the next stage of researching more deeply into two areas of Clare, Ennis and Feakle.
Regards
Anne