Glynn family mystery

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nanub44
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Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:31 pm

Please help me solve a family mystery. My Grandfather Harry E. Glynn was born in Kilrush in 1888, according to his draft record of 1917. His mother was Mary McMahon born about 1867 also in Kilrush or thereabouts. Harrys father is still a mystery, as he emigrated in 1896 as a McMahon headed to Binghamton New York. Mary had emigrated in 1888, leaving Harry behind in Kilrush. She married Charles Henry Mable in 1888 a widower with four children. She had four children with Charles and in 1920 was living in Hudson New Jersey. Charles dies in 1922 and is buried in Binghamton with his first wife Nora Dillon. Mary disappears but I have heard from a Mable family member that she died in 1951. Where? Harry marries Marie Fuller from New Jersey, he is now a Glynn. They have three sons, the eldest Robert is my father. Harry is a sign painter and very talented however he is also a drinker and he an Marie separate when the boys are young. I have been trying to trace the origins of both Harry and his mother back to Ireland. The family legend is that Harrys father was killed in a riding accident,? when. We surmise that Mary and Harrys father never married. Given the mores of the times, where would Harry have been left? Marys family? Would he have been baptized? I have used ancestry.com as a resource in the past and found what I believe to be Harrys and Marys emigration. Also have found Harrys draft record from New Jersey in 1917. Harry died in 1957 in Binghamton. I am trying to trace Harrys parentage and have noted that there were a number of Glynns in Kilrush and McMahons. Would like any help in trying to solve this mystery. Thanks in advance. Denise Buckley :?

pwaldron
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by pwaldron » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:02 am

Henry McMahon was baptised in Kilrush parish on 8 Feb 1886. His mother's name was recorded as Mary McMahon and no father's name was recorded. You might want to check the microfilm of the original register to see what notes are included with the record.

The corresponding civil record is:
Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 about Henry M'Mahon
Name: Henry M'Mahon
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1886
Registration district: Kilrush
Volume: 4
Page: 327
FHL Film Number: 101061

You might want to order a photocopy of the record for 4 euro from groireland.ie to see what else the full record reveals.

mgallery
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by mgallery » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:16 am

If you order Harrys death certificate it should list both his parents
regards

Margaret

nanub44
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:15 pm

Thank you for the information re Henry M'Mahon. I think what is confusing is the varying dates listed on documents. When I found what I believe to be Harrys "Henry"s emigration record from Aug. 1896 it gave his age as 10. Other census reports later in his life give varying dates of birth and even where he was born. I surmise this is more the error on the part of the census taker than the person being asked. As for trying to obtain a copy of his death certificate,this is difficult in the USA. I look forward to any help or information that I can get from this forum. Thank you in advance. Denise

mgallery
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by mgallery » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:43 pm

people often lied on census forms reducing their age by up to 10 years and then adding on again when coming up to old age pension dates. Also they often were not sure how old they were...

Not a huge deal getting different ages

Lucille
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by Lucille » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:51 pm

I have got death certificates from various states in the US without too much difficulty. Here is the link for Binghampton
http://www.binghamton-ny.gov/department ... statistics

Lucille

nanub44
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:33 pm

Again thanks for the information. I have sent for a copy of Henry M'Mahons birth record from goireland website. Hope this is Harry. Also will contact vital statistics in Binghamton. Still waiting to hear from PJ.Culligan re my questions. Thanks in advance. Denise

nanub44
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 pm

Query:how would a child born out of wedlock be able to take the name of his birth father? Would he need some documentation as to his parentage? Does anyone know what was the practice in the late 1800s. I am curious as to how one could emigrate as one name and later adopt his Fathers name. Thanks for any response. No disrespect intended towards the Glynns of Kilrush just a granddaughter looking for answers. I never knew my grandfather but will always be grateful to him for taking the voyage to the USA and fathering three amazing sons, the eldest being my father. Denise

Jimbo
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by Jimbo » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:48 pm

Hi Denise,

Henry Glynn’s birth date on his WWI registration of February 8th is the same date as the Kilrush baptism record. Perhaps he put 1888 instead of the correct 1886 to qualify for the first US draft in 1917 which was men between the ages of 21 and 31 years. Per the WWI draft registration he already had 7 months experience as a corporal with what looks like the National Guard – perhaps he was keen to go to war and took 2 years off his age to be only 29?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZV9-XSD

Regarding Harry McMahon’s immigration from 1896 at the age of 10, I found him on the Ellis Island immigration index on the Teutonic arriving in New York on August 5th. But the names on the ship manifest stop at row 246 on page 216 (the last page), and Harry per the index is at row 249. Were you able to find his name on the shipping manifest on ancestry? Who the 10 year old was traveling with (row 247 & 248) in 1896 might provide you some important clues.

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 2888031711

And have you found Harry in 1900 or 1910 census records? If he had been raised by a Glynn family in 1900 this could account for the name change. Could Mary McMahon had a sister perhaps who married a Glynn and they raised the child in Kilrush before moving to America? Otherwise if you have evidence that his birth father’s surname was Glynn, there would be nothing to stop Harry from changing his surname. Name changes were pretty common in the USA during that era.

And in 1920, looks like Charles and Mary Mabel were living in Manhattan, and not New Jersey. I would be very cautious of the information you find on family trees on ancestry and always go to the original source. And even then many original source documents are suspect – especially with death certificates for immigrants to America. Information for Harry’s death certificate was most likely provided by one of his children – would they have known who his father was back in Ireland?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MJBS-B7M

Good luck

James

nanub44
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:38 pm

Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:38 pm

Thank you, James for the information. I miswrote in my post as the date the Mabel's were in New Jersey, it was 1910. They were in Binghamton NewYork in 1900. Mary lists her birth as 1867 and emigration as 1886, other census list her emigration as 1887. In any case she disappears after 1920, but a Mabel family member says she died in 1951. Haven't been able to find her since. Have looked through her children with Charles hoping she may have lived with one of them. Most stayed in New Jersey, only one Albert stays and is buried in Broome county. Harry was know as a Mcmaon in Binghamton as a child, but cannot find him in any census. He traveled to US with a Danny. i.e Daniel McMahon,age 11, going to Binghamton as well. I am surmising he was a cousin and am starting to look for him. I don't think that my father Robert, or his two brothers were ever privy to their fathers history. Most if any information came through my Grandmother Marie and a Mabel family member who bumped into Mary and Harry researching their family. So the mystery persists. I will continue to hunt,would love to know what happened to Mary Mcmahon Mabel. Again thanks. Denise

Jimbo
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by Jimbo » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:49 pm

Hi Denise,

Thanks for the additional clues to your mystery. Regarding the 1900 census, I did a search for Harry (no surname) born in Ireland between 1885 and 1888, living in Binghampton - and found your grandfather as Harry Dineheir age 15 born in Ireland as the son of J Patrick Dineheir and Mary Dineheir along with Daniel Dineheir who was on the same ship as Harry. In last post, I said it was not uncommon to change your surname, but not from an Irish name to a German name! This is clearly a mistake on the census transcription. Fortunately, this McMahon family covers two pages on the 1900 census, and on the second page the correct McMahon surname is listed - with three additional children and a brother Daniel McMahon and their mother Ellen McMahon.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MS6H-33W

J Patrick McMahon and his wife are listed in 1900 as having 6 children living out of 9 born. They are also listed as having been married for 15 years, although some of their "children" on the census are older than 15 years. I suggested in last post that maybe a sister of Mary McMahon had adopted Harry - perhaps a brother J Patrick adopted Harry and a few others? A good next step would be to check the baptism record for the Daniel McMahon (born about 1883) and John McMahon (born about 1884). Could Mary McMahon had more than one child born out of wedlock? The other explanation of course is that you have the incorrect Harry McMahon on the shipping record.

Assuming Harry McMahon was indeed adopted by his uncle J Patrick McMahon, you now have his grandmother's name as Ellen McMahon born about 1838. And also lots of other cousins / siblings of Harry to track down. You might also want to look for Harry (with no surname) using the same technique in the 1910 census.

James

pwaldron
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by pwaldron » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:14 pm

Here's the manifest page with Danny and Harry McMahon (and several other people from west Clare).

Jimbo
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by Jimbo » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:47 pm

And here is the J Patrick McMahon family in the New York State census of 1905. Missing from the family are Harry, the brother Daniel as well as the mother Ellen McMahon. The son "Sino" from 1900 has become more Americanized as "Simon" in 1905.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/SPDP-TH5

In the 1900 census, Ellen McMahon states that she has had three children. They are all living in Binghamton New York:
(1) J Patrick born about 1863
(2) Daniel born about 1869
(3) Mary McMahon Mable born anytime between 1870 and 1875 per census records

The youngest two children of Ellen McMahon were born in Ireland during a period when births were registered. From Family Search, good chance that Daniel was born 26 April 1869; and Mary on 24 March 1875. Both in Kilrush. Parents of both were listed as Ellen McMahon and Sinon McMahon. This would account for J Patrick naming one son "Sino" as per 1900 census.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5D1-48G
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGZF-TXP

If Mary McMahon Mable was indeed born in 1875, I have my doubts that she was the mother of Harry McMahon born on 8 February 1886. Isn't it more likely that the Mary McMahon listed on the birth record from 1886 is the Mary wife of J Patrick McMahon? And Harry McMahon wasn't born out of wedlock but was indeed J Patrick's son as listed in the 1900 census?

Why did Harry change his surname to Glynn is still a mystery. Would be interesting to obtain the marriage record for J Patrick McMahon and Mary Unknown (possibly Glynn?).
Last edited by Jimbo on Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

nanub44
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:10 am

Very interesting. However, Harry's mother Mary married Charles H Mabel in 1888. Her birthdate is about 1867 and she emigrated in either 1887 or 1888. In Harry's obit, Albert Mabel is listed as his half brother. Perhaps Harry and Daniel are living with relatives. Am wondering if Ellen could be Mary's aunt as her age would suggest . Will look for J Patrick and Ellen. Charles and Mary were living in New Jersey in 1910, Harry and Marie were there in 1915 as that's where my Father was born. So I will look there as well. Appreciate your help and tips. Denise

nanub44
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Re: Glynn family mystery

Post by nanub44 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:14 pm

Hello again, have bit the bullet and rejoined Ancestry, finding new information. On family search I found Mary McMahon, born Nov 1866, kilkee,Clare. Parents Sinon and Ellen McMahon. This may be my Mary as Kilkee is close to Kilrush. Why is it that the Family search has more information and more in depth than Ancestry, very frustrating. Also found the J Patrick and Ellen McMahon and Mables living on Whitney ave in Binghamton, 1902,1903. Still looking for Mary McMahon Mable after 1920. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Am now thinking that the Ellen listed in Henry M'Mahons birth record was Mary's mother. Does anyone know what the naming custom was in Ireland, ie naming first born son after father, grandfather. My dad's middle name was Bernard, not a family name on his mothers side. Thanks again for the help. Still searching. Denise

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