niece/nephew = grandchild ?
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:06 pm
In my youth, one of the more memorable family friends with whom visits were exchanged was Freddie Kerr (1897-1984) [grandfather of the well-known businessman and broadcaster Bobby Kerr]. Originally from county Roscommon, Freddie lived in Kilkee and was married to a Kilkee woman.
Freddie spoke frequently about his "nieces". I soon realised that he used this word where others would say "granddaughters" or possibly "grandchildren". I don't recall him mentioning grandsons or nephews, so perhaps they too were encompassed by his usage of the word nieces.
I assumed for many years that this was a one-person idiosyncracy. Then I began to notice a pattern in census returns.
In Cloonmore (locally known as Clohanes) in 1901, the family headed by Timothy Cahill (66) included his "nephew" Willie Williams (10) and "niece" Lizzie Cahill (16). From people who knew Willie Williams, I was certain that he was Timothy's grandson, and I have verified this in other sources. I am still trying to definitively identify Lizzie Cahill and her place in the family, but I suspect that she too was really a grandchild.
In Ballard (locally known as Baltard) in 1901, the family headed by Martin Mc Mahon (70) included his "niece" Maria Kitson (6), "niece" Maria Marrinan (13) and "nephew" Michael Marrinan (16). I have established that Maria Kitson was Martin's granddaughter, and suspect that the Marrinans too were really grandchildren, but can find no other record of them.
I have seen several other similar examples.
Can anyone definitively prove Lizzie Cahill, Maria Marrinan and Michael Marrinan's places in their respective families?
Were these discrepancies more likely to be (a) because a son of the head of the household filled out the forms and simply gave some relationships with respect to the head and others with respect to himself? or (b) because the English words "nephew" and "niece" were used with different meanings in the past? or (c) because there were Irish words with different meanings that people mistranslated to English?
The moral is to be very sceptical of any census return showing a large age discrepancy between an uncle or aunt and a niece or nephew.
Freddie spoke frequently about his "nieces". I soon realised that he used this word where others would say "granddaughters" or possibly "grandchildren". I don't recall him mentioning grandsons or nephews, so perhaps they too were encompassed by his usage of the word nieces.
I assumed for many years that this was a one-person idiosyncracy. Then I began to notice a pattern in census returns.
In Cloonmore (locally known as Clohanes) in 1901, the family headed by Timothy Cahill (66) included his "nephew" Willie Williams (10) and "niece" Lizzie Cahill (16). From people who knew Willie Williams, I was certain that he was Timothy's grandson, and I have verified this in other sources. I am still trying to definitively identify Lizzie Cahill and her place in the family, but I suspect that she too was really a grandchild.
In Ballard (locally known as Baltard) in 1901, the family headed by Martin Mc Mahon (70) included his "niece" Maria Kitson (6), "niece" Maria Marrinan (13) and "nephew" Michael Marrinan (16). I have established that Maria Kitson was Martin's granddaughter, and suspect that the Marrinans too were really grandchildren, but can find no other record of them.
I have seen several other similar examples.
Can anyone definitively prove Lizzie Cahill, Maria Marrinan and Michael Marrinan's places in their respective families?
Were these discrepancies more likely to be (a) because a son of the head of the household filled out the forms and simply gave some relationships with respect to the head and others with respect to himself? or (b) because the English words "nephew" and "niece" were used with different meanings in the past? or (c) because there were Irish words with different meanings that people mistranslated to English?
The moral is to be very sceptical of any census return showing a large age discrepancy between an uncle or aunt and a niece or nephew.