I'm hoping you can help me find my ancestors from Clare. Francis Kneeland was born in 1824. His parents were James and Bridget - I do not know where they were from in Clare, possibly it was Ennis or Ennistymon. He came to Boston in the 1840's, but his brothers remained in Ireland. One, James, married to Bridget Kane/Cain. had a daughter, Margaret who was born about 1872. She came to Boston, and was married in 1895 - the Massachusetts vital record states that she was from Co. Clare, Ireland.
I cannot find any Kneelands anywhere in Ireland - only Neylons. I had asked older family members about the spelling of the name, and they always insisted it was Kneeland.
If anyone knows about any Kneelands, I'd love to hear from them - I've really been hitting a brick wall so far.
Thanks you so much!
Joanne
KNEELANDS IN CLARE
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Paddy Casey
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Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
I guess this is a difficult one, what with all the possible alternative spellings (Neylon, Naylon, Neilon, Nealon, Nilon, Niland, Neiland, Nyland).
Interestingly, http://www.4crests.com/kneeland-coat-of-arms.html says "The surname of KNEELAND is the anglicized form of the Irish O'Faolain, and ranks amongst the fifty most common surnames in Ireland.............* but I can't find a clue as to the authenticity of this statement. It goes on to say that "The name is also spelt CLELAND, KNELAND, CLEALAND, CLILAND, CLEILLAND and CLAYLAND."
On the other hand, the Internet Surnames Database at http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Niland says that "This is a very confusing surname, which can be either Irish or English, although the roots are completely different. In general it is accepted that if the name is spelt Neylan, Neilan, Nelon, Neylon and Neiland, it is Irish and derives from the ancient gaelic O'Naillain, loosely translating as 'The descendant of the son of Neil', a reference to the saga known as 'Nail of the nine hostages', from whom the famous O'Neill clan claim their descent over fifteen centuries....."
But you probably know all this.
Just to get a clearer idea of the facts, Joanne: where does the statement "Francis Kneeland was born in 1824" come from ? Do you have an original piece of paper which uses that spelling ? If so, what was the date of that piece of paper and who was the author ?
When you write "One, James, married to Bridget Kane/Cain. had a daughter, Margaret who was born about 1872", do you mean that she was thought to have been born in Clare, possibly in or around Ennis ? If so, have you checked the birth registers, which began in 1864, for a Margaret Neylon born around 1872 ?
Paddy
Interestingly, http://www.4crests.com/kneeland-coat-of-arms.html says "The surname of KNEELAND is the anglicized form of the Irish O'Faolain, and ranks amongst the fifty most common surnames in Ireland.............* but I can't find a clue as to the authenticity of this statement. It goes on to say that "The name is also spelt CLELAND, KNELAND, CLEALAND, CLILAND, CLEILLAND and CLAYLAND."
On the other hand, the Internet Surnames Database at http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Niland says that "This is a very confusing surname, which can be either Irish or English, although the roots are completely different. In general it is accepted that if the name is spelt Neylan, Neilan, Nelon, Neylon and Neiland, it is Irish and derives from the ancient gaelic O'Naillain, loosely translating as 'The descendant of the son of Neil', a reference to the saga known as 'Nail of the nine hostages', from whom the famous O'Neill clan claim their descent over fifteen centuries....."
But you probably know all this.
Just to get a clearer idea of the facts, Joanne: where does the statement "Francis Kneeland was born in 1824" come from ? Do you have an original piece of paper which uses that spelling ? If so, what was the date of that piece of paper and who was the author ?
When you write "One, James, married to Bridget Kane/Cain. had a daughter, Margaret who was born about 1872", do you mean that she was thought to have been born in Clare, possibly in or around Ennis ? If so, have you checked the birth registers, which began in 1864, for a Margaret Neylon born around 1872 ?
Paddy
Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
Hi Paddy - Thanks for your prompt reply!!
Yes, I do know all about the Kneeland/Neylon variants - I gather that Kneeland is Scottish, and Neylon would be Irish - it does make a difference, as I don't know whether I am Irish or Scottish! It's possible that we are descended from Scots who went over to N. Ireland, and then to Clare. If you want the whole story, here it is -( or maybe you don't want to know ):
My great-grandfather, Francis (Frank) Kneeland emigrated from Clare (? Ennistymon, my father thought) in the 1840's. He came with probably 2 brothers. I can't find any written record of him until 1857 in the City of Newton, Massachusetts, when the birth of a son was recorded.
He and his wife were listed as "Frank and Ellen Kneeland." A daughter, Mary Kneeland, was born to them in 1859, and thereafter Frank and the whole family became "Neylon's". All children born after 1860 were listed as "Neylon", and then Frank Neylon died on 6/27/1979 in Newton, Massachusetts. His age was listed as 55 (hence the 1824 date of birth), his parents were recorded as James and Bridget Neylon, and he was born in Ireland.
Now the puzzling part - Just about immediately after Frank's death, the whole family became Kneelands again - no one has ever said why, but the family has always maintained that the name was always Kneeland - they totally discounted the fact that their name was once Neylon!
The Kneeland brothers that emigrated together apparently did not stay in touch with each other, as I do not know their first names, or how they spelled their surnames. I do know that one went to Vermont, and married a Presbyterian minister's daughter. One elderly aunt told me that he didn't speak to our branch of the family because we were Catholic - what does that mean? Did Frank convert to RC when he married an Irish Catholic? It makes sense that Kneelands could be Protestant if they were of Scottish origin - Neylons would of course be Catholic.
In 1895, Margaret Kneeland, the daughter of a Kneeland who did not emigrate left Ireland, and was married in Newton, Massachusetts. Her marriage record states that she was from Co. Clare, that she was 23 years' old, and that her parents were James and Bridget (Kane) Kneeland. She was married in the Catholic Church, so I assume she was a Catholic Kneeland.
By the way, I'm not sure that "from" Co, Clare is the same as "born" there.
So, it appears that great-grandfather Frank had at least one brother, James, in Ireland. I cannot find any Kneelands at all there, but of course there are a lot of Neylons. No one has ever been able to locate Kneelands in Ireland, although some relatives have gone to Ennistymon and looked. I don't really know where they looked, or how hard they looked!
At any rate, those are the facts that I have - I know it's not much, but my Kneeland ancestors must have existed somewhere - I am living proof of that!
Any light that you can shed on the Kneelands would be much appreciated. You obviously have a lot of knowledge about Clare, so I'm hoping you can help - at least tell me where to look - I have made it my mission to solve this genealogical mystery!
Thanks so much ! !
Joanne
Yes, I do know all about the Kneeland/Neylon variants - I gather that Kneeland is Scottish, and Neylon would be Irish - it does make a difference, as I don't know whether I am Irish or Scottish! It's possible that we are descended from Scots who went over to N. Ireland, and then to Clare. If you want the whole story, here it is -( or maybe you don't want to know ):
My great-grandfather, Francis (Frank) Kneeland emigrated from Clare (? Ennistymon, my father thought) in the 1840's. He came with probably 2 brothers. I can't find any written record of him until 1857 in the City of Newton, Massachusetts, when the birth of a son was recorded.
He and his wife were listed as "Frank and Ellen Kneeland." A daughter, Mary Kneeland, was born to them in 1859, and thereafter Frank and the whole family became "Neylon's". All children born after 1860 were listed as "Neylon", and then Frank Neylon died on 6/27/1979 in Newton, Massachusetts. His age was listed as 55 (hence the 1824 date of birth), his parents were recorded as James and Bridget Neylon, and he was born in Ireland.
Now the puzzling part - Just about immediately after Frank's death, the whole family became Kneelands again - no one has ever said why, but the family has always maintained that the name was always Kneeland - they totally discounted the fact that their name was once Neylon!
The Kneeland brothers that emigrated together apparently did not stay in touch with each other, as I do not know their first names, or how they spelled their surnames. I do know that one went to Vermont, and married a Presbyterian minister's daughter. One elderly aunt told me that he didn't speak to our branch of the family because we were Catholic - what does that mean? Did Frank convert to RC when he married an Irish Catholic? It makes sense that Kneelands could be Protestant if they were of Scottish origin - Neylons would of course be Catholic.
In 1895, Margaret Kneeland, the daughter of a Kneeland who did not emigrate left Ireland, and was married in Newton, Massachusetts. Her marriage record states that she was from Co. Clare, that she was 23 years' old, and that her parents were James and Bridget (Kane) Kneeland. She was married in the Catholic Church, so I assume she was a Catholic Kneeland.
By the way, I'm not sure that "from" Co, Clare is the same as "born" there.
So, it appears that great-grandfather Frank had at least one brother, James, in Ireland. I cannot find any Kneelands at all there, but of course there are a lot of Neylons. No one has ever been able to locate Kneelands in Ireland, although some relatives have gone to Ennistymon and looked. I don't really know where they looked, or how hard they looked!
At any rate, those are the facts that I have - I know it's not much, but my Kneeland ancestors must have existed somewhere - I am living proof of that!
Any light that you can shed on the Kneelands would be much appreciated. You obviously have a lot of knowledge about Clare, so I'm hoping you can help - at least tell me where to look - I have made it my mission to solve this genealogical mystery!
Thanks so much ! !
Joanne
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Paddy Casey
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Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
This is indeed a curious matter, Joanne.
If one goes to http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/ and enters 'Kneeland' it turns up very large numbers of Kneelands purporting to have been born in Ireland. On the other hand the search facility at the Clare Library site at http://www.clarelibrary.ie does not find any Kneelands. And a cursory search in the present-day Irish telephone book at http://www.eircom.ie also fails to reveal Kneelands.
Either all the Kneelands were driven out of Ireland in one fell swoop in the early 19th century (unlikely) or a lot of Neylons/Nilons/Neilons etc. emigrated and were automatically rechristened Kneeland by a clerk at the port of entry in the USA*. Or - even more farfetched - some fugitive Neylons/Nilons/Neilons etc. changed their name to Kneeland to escape the Law.
And then the business about the family's name change after Frank's death (that will be 1879, not 1979, right ?)........
It really is very puzzling.
Paddy
* Rechristenings were common at POEs in the US, typically when, for example, a Yiddish-speaking clerk from the Ukraine was confronted with an Irish-speaking immigrant and simply wrote down his phonetic understanding of the name. If the immigrant was illiterate he would walk out of the Immigration shed clutching his immigration papers and grateful that he now had a written version of his name.
If one goes to http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/ and enters 'Kneeland' it turns up very large numbers of Kneelands purporting to have been born in Ireland. On the other hand the search facility at the Clare Library site at http://www.clarelibrary.ie does not find any Kneelands. And a cursory search in the present-day Irish telephone book at http://www.eircom.ie also fails to reveal Kneelands.
Either all the Kneelands were driven out of Ireland in one fell swoop in the early 19th century (unlikely) or a lot of Neylons/Nilons/Neilons etc. emigrated and were automatically rechristened Kneeland by a clerk at the port of entry in the USA*. Or - even more farfetched - some fugitive Neylons/Nilons/Neilons etc. changed their name to Kneeland to escape the Law.
And then the business about the family's name change after Frank's death (that will be 1879, not 1979, right ?)........
It really is very puzzling.
Paddy
* Rechristenings were common at POEs in the US, typically when, for example, a Yiddish-speaking clerk from the Ukraine was confronted with an Irish-speaking immigrant and simply wrote down his phonetic understanding of the name. If the immigrant was illiterate he would walk out of the Immigration shed clutching his immigration papers and grateful that he now had a written version of his name.
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smcarberry
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Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
Joanne,
I assume you know that on the U.S. side there is a lot of research to be done, so you have posted in hopes that there is a bright ray of light on the Clare side of your family, just waiting for you. But, as Paddy has indicated, no such clear evidence of your family exists back in the old country. If indeed you are up to the task, there are standards ways of finding the critical records that contain the Irish placename you want. If you are in New England, the best free source of expert help is at the New England Historic Genealogical Society's headquarters in downtown Boston, well worth the trip and parking hassle.
If you need more extensive guidance, I know a reliable professional genealogist specializing in Boston Irish research. Having
done a quick survey myself of the Kneeland and Neelan listings in Boston city directories starting in 1845, I see that your Francis was not using Kneeland but that Kneeland Street is the lasting memorial to a colonial family of that name in Boston. So, your own family may well have "mainstreamed" their surname by adopting a more well-known and respected spelling.
A happy ending to your story depends on how much time and effort you put into it. I see this as very do-able. The resources are definitely there, as I know from having used them while living near Boston a few years ago.
Sharon Carberry USA
I assume you know that on the U.S. side there is a lot of research to be done, so you have posted in hopes that there is a bright ray of light on the Clare side of your family, just waiting for you. But, as Paddy has indicated, no such clear evidence of your family exists back in the old country. If indeed you are up to the task, there are standards ways of finding the critical records that contain the Irish placename you want. If you are in New England, the best free source of expert help is at the New England Historic Genealogical Society's headquarters in downtown Boston, well worth the trip and parking hassle.
If you need more extensive guidance, I know a reliable professional genealogist specializing in Boston Irish research. Having
done a quick survey myself of the Kneeland and Neelan listings in Boston city directories starting in 1845, I see that your Francis was not using Kneeland but that Kneeland Street is the lasting memorial to a colonial family of that name in Boston. So, your own family may well have "mainstreamed" their surname by adopting a more well-known and respected spelling.
A happy ending to your story depends on how much time and effort you put into it. I see this as very do-able. The resources are definitely there, as I know from having used them while living near Boston a few years ago.
Sharon Carberry USA
Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
Hi Paddy - I did mean 1879 - I'm amazed that was my only typo!
A lot of Kneelands emigrated to Boston in the 1800's, and stayed in the area. I suspect that the Kneeland name may have died out in Ireland - those that remained there either did not have sons, or had only daughters who married and changed their names. That almost happened in my own family - had it not been for my brother having a son, our name would have disappeared!
How can I find a birth record for Margaret Kneeland born in Clare in August, 1872? Since she was my great-grandfather's niece, I might be able to trace my roots through her - I can only hope!
Thanks so much for all your help - you've been great!!
Joanne
A lot of Kneelands emigrated to Boston in the 1800's, and stayed in the area. I suspect that the Kneeland name may have died out in Ireland - those that remained there either did not have sons, or had only daughters who married and changed their names. That almost happened in my own family - had it not been for my brother having a son, our name would have disappeared!
How can I find a birth record for Margaret Kneeland born in Clare in August, 1872? Since she was my great-grandfather's niece, I might be able to trace my roots through her - I can only hope!
Thanks so much for all your help - you've been great!!
Joanne
Re: KNEELANDS IN CLARE
Hi Sharon - we have been round and round with the possible spelling change on Kneeland on arrival in the US. However, there are a lot of Kneelands, and I can't imagine that they all
were written incorrectly! Even if the names were changed by Immigration clerks, wouldn't
immigrants continue to use their names as they originally spelled them? My ancestors knew how to read and write, and would have signed documents with the correct names, I would imagine.
Also, thanks for your tips on research - I have just joined the New England Genealogical Society, and having been using their website, but haven't gone there yet. Also, it's good to know you can refer me to a professional - I may have to come to that, but first I will see what I can find out.
You are so right about my wanting a "ray of light" from Clare - I was really hoping I would find some relative living in a castle in Ireland that is just dying to meet me!
I know my Irish roots exist somewhere - I will keep you posted as to what I find out!
Thanks so much for replying to my message - I really appreciate your help!
Joanne
were written incorrectly! Even if the names were changed by Immigration clerks, wouldn't
immigrants continue to use their names as they originally spelled them? My ancestors knew how to read and write, and would have signed documents with the correct names, I would imagine.
Also, thanks for your tips on research - I have just joined the New England Genealogical Society, and having been using their website, but haven't gone there yet. Also, it's good to know you can refer me to a professional - I may have to come to that, but first I will see what I can find out.
You are so right about my wanting a "ray of light" from Clare - I was really hoping I would find some relative living in a castle in Ireland that is just dying to meet me!
I know my Irish roots exist somewhere - I will keep you posted as to what I find out!
Thanks so much for replying to my message - I really appreciate your help!
Joanne