Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

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chrissyb
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 9:32 am

Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

Post by chrissyb » Tue May 19, 2009 10:17 am

I am looking for information about Thomas and Andrew Anderson, the names of their parents etc so that I can go back to the next generation. I have lots of information on Thomas military records and even his death certificate etc but no information about his parents, when he was born or where.

All I know is when they enlisted for the 40th Regiment of foot 3rd February 1832 whe they were 11 years old and stated they were born in Ennis. I think they enlisted at Rona??? They may have been twins. Both Thomas and Andrew were Discharged from HM 40th Regiment of foot 07.09.1839. Thomas enlisted in the Coldstream Guards (No 3729) 16.05.1850 discharged 17.05.1860. Andrew and Thomas joined the Navy in 1839 on HMS Wellesley both received the Medal of China HMS Wellesley was in the Opium war 1839-42. Andrew enlisted in the Coldstream Guards 08.05.1844.

What I would like to know if possible is:
Where was Thomas and Andrew born.
Names of his parents and any further information about them.
Any other siblings etc.

Any help greatly appreciated.

smcarberry
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

Post by smcarberry » Tue May 19, 2009 5:03 pm

Since I have a healthy curiosity, I'll wade in here. I don't know if the person who posted this (please, what is your first name ?) is aware of a fact which likely seems evident to most other readers, but Anderson is not a Clare surname. That in itself leads to certain research directions, such as the boys being born to a family briefly posted in the county. Checking records for the Royal Irish Constabulary is one such step. Of course, we regular readers immediately wonder if the person posting this information has run the Anderson name through the search engine of the Clare Library website to see if something pops up in a database such as the Tithe Applotment records of 1825/26. Ditto for a country-wide result from
using the entire Tithe Applotment database on the http://www.failteromhat.com website maintained by John Hayes.

Before venturing any further observations, I have some questions:
1. Is this your family (yours or your spouse's) ? Are you making this inquiry for a friend or client ? Are you needing details in order to eliminate this family as being related to your known family group ?

2. Do you have photocopies of any actual documents or is your information acquired second-hand ? If you have copies or a transcription of the military records, what is the word which appears immediately before and also after each of the place names you stated (Ennis and Rona) ?

3. Why don't you have any marriage record information ? Did neither of these men marry ? Did they have any children, and, if so, what were the names, in order of birth ?

4. Have you looked into viewing a film of the Church of Ireland or other Protestant baptismal records for the years near the birth year of these men ?

5. Are you in England ? If not, what country (so I can consider what onsite resources are accessible by you) ?

Sharon Carberry USA

chrissyb
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

Post by chrissyb » Tue May 19, 2009 11:15 pm

Thank you for your message. To reply to a few of your questions:

Thomas Anderson was my Gt Gt Gt Grandfather, his daughter Elizabeth Euphan Anderson married William Howard, and their daughter Rosina Edith Howard was my Gt Grandmother of which I have lots of photos.

Yes I do have copies of the military documentation where Thomas states he was born in Ennis, County Clare.

I don't know if Andrew Anderson married but Thomas married Euphan MacFarlane in Scotland before joining the Cold Stream Guards as a musician and living in London where he died.

No I haven't looked at the Church of Ireland records as this is the first ancestor I have that I am aware of that came from Ireland and hence my request for assistance.

Yes I do live in England.

I hope this answers some of your questions and that you will be able to assist me further in finding out more about Thomas parents and other siblings.

Kind regards, Chris

smcarberry
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

Post by smcarberry » Wed May 20, 2009 1:48 pm

Chris,

Your inquiry unfortunately hits me at a bad time, as I am in hot pursuit of info for a relative so I did not double-check the
Hayes website for the indicated databases. The Tithe Applotment records are online solely for Clare on the Clare Library
website, as we family historians are the ones who transcribed it a few years ago. John Hayes has placed on his website
the images of the 1824 Pigot's Directory for all Irish locations, sorted by major towns like Ennis and Limerick. There are no
Anderson listings (that I could see, doing a quick visual scan) in Ennis, and there are two Anderson widows (that is, listings
of "Mrs." only) in the gentry section in Limerick city. Pigot's does not appear to list military men, so you still need to find a source for the RIC. John Hayes has the full Griffiths Valuation of 1848 - 64, searchable with the provided search engine, which returns dozens of Anderson listings around Ireland. Without sufficient names provided of your Thomas's children (other than Elizabeth), I cannot recognize if there are possible cousins (the same names tend to re-appear in a family generation by generation) in the Griffiths Valuation listings for Clare and Limerick (see below). Perhaps you will see something that seems similar.

I suggest that you look over all this data and form a working assumption, to give a focus for your research. You can always
modify the assumption as you find new data. The Scottish government has a great website for ordering documents,
which I encourage you to do for the marriage of Thomas and Euphan. Focusing just on Thomas and Andrew being potentially twins, their birth in a city might be the product of prior planning by their parents, without the parents actually
residing in Ennis. Help of a medical nature is available in a city, within the time needed for birthing. The boys may not have
been baptised there, although in 1821 a baptism likely would have taken place within a day or two, particularly for twins who might have been small and viewed as medically fragile, needing a really quick baptism. You can check with the Church Representative Body (title from memory) office in Dublin as to church records for Ennis and for Limerick of that time period.

The other observation that might prove useful is that, in this time period, the younger sons of gentry tended to join the
army because they were not going to inherit any land. Eleven seems young but the apprenticeship system of the time
normally started boys at almost that age, and the military did take young boys for non-combatant positions, as support
staff to the soldiers. Of course, one of your prime goals is to get confirmation of any dates appearing in military records,
which can be faulty (and placename spellings are terrible, too).

I will keep your people in mind as I continue to review materials, both saved already and those I encounter in the future.

Regards,
Sharon Carberry

http://www.failteromhat.com/pigot.php 1824 directory

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php

Anderson William Errina Kiltenanlea Clare
Anderson William Town of Ennistimon Newtown Street Kilmanaheen Clare
Anderson William Town of Ennistimon Market Place Kilmanaheen Clare
Anderson John Town of Milltown Malbay Main Street Kilfarboy

Anderson Johanna Garryellen Fedamore Limerick
Anderson John Newpark Croagh Limerick
Anderson John Newpark Croagh Limerick
Anderson Johanna Garryellen Fedamore Limerick
Anderson Johanna Garryellen Fedamore Limerick
Anderson James Briska, More Kilkeedy Limerick
Anderson James Briska, More Kilkeedy Limerick
Anderson James Briska, More Kilkeedy Limerick
Anderson John Newpark Croagh Limerick
Anderson Patrick Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Christopher Coolbaun Castletown Limerick
Anderson Patrick Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Denis Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Denis Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Patrick Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Denis Carrigbeg Castletown Limerick
Anderson Christopher Coolbaun Castletown Limerick
Anderson Christopher Coolbaun Castletown Limerick

smcarberry
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Thomas and Andrew Anderson - born in Ennis around 1821

Post by smcarberry » Thu May 28, 2009 12:11 pm

Some light Internet surfing as a break between tougher tasks yesterday led to an inspiring instance of valor which included a Limerick man. First though I will show items that might be of interest to the posted inquiry, concerning members of the military born in Ennis, in the first half of the 1800s. This additional information may make possible a working assumption that there was a family with a tradition of military service involving more than one generation.

Sharon Carberry USA


Anderson, Thos. L. [made lieutenant] 1799; later, 43rd Foot
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Mi ... itia1.html

JOHN ANDERSON, Born ENNIS, Clare. Served in 43rd Foot Regiment; 77th Foot Regiment; 34th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 39. Date range 1825 – 1846
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... e_docs.htm

A Google book (Google main page, upper lefthand corner links - click on "more" and then click on "books"):
"On 18th November, 1820, the regiment embarked at Liverpool on board seven small packets, and arrived in Dublin on the 20th. After a short stay in Dublin, during which time it was quartered in Richmond Barracks, the regiment marched out in detachments. It proceeded on its way to Ennis, and occupied some villages in the vicinity of that place.

On 12th April, 1821, the grenadiers and first and light companies, marched for Limerick to strengthen the garrison there...

The head-quarters of the regiment left Ennis on 23rd May and arrived at Templemore on the 23rd, leaving detachments at Ennis and in the neighbouring villages; also furnishing two companies (second and third) to occupy the barracks at Cashel. These companies joined head-quarters on 12th June."
p. 212
Historical Records Of The 40th (2nd SOMERSETSHIRE) Regiment, Now 1st BATTALION The Prince Of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment) From its Formation, in 1717, to 1893.
by Captain R.H. RAYMOND Smythies,
Printed by A. H. SWISS, Devonport, 1894

The Limerick-born Anderson in the military, 43rd Regt. Infantry:
ANDERSON, John Rank: Private Number: 2706 Place Enlisted: Buttevant
Date Enlisted: 20-10-1851 Age Enlisted: Yrs 18 Mth 04 Service To Date: Yrs Day 128 Born: Limerick
Information: Drowned
http://www.lightinfantry.org.uk/regimen ... enhead.htm

The captain of Pvt. Anderson's ship ordered the famous "Every man for himself" when it became apparent that the ship would go down out at sea, beyond any assistance. However, passengers were onboard, and the military on their own undertook the sacrifice which started the tradition of "women and children first." The website (link above) on this event reports:
"The 43rd was sent to South Africa for the Kaffir Wars. They were shipwrecked off the Cape on 24th February 1852 and stood steady on parade on deck as the ship went down, to allow the women and children into the lifeboats."

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