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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Location: Ballina, Killaloe
Way back on 29 Jul 2000 I happened to be driving through Quin and had heard that some of my O'Halloran relatives might be buried there. I didn't know which O'Hallorans I should be looking for, so I stopped and transcribed all the O'Halloran inscriptions I could find (and a few with other surnames), but I couldn't associate any of these inscriptions with my branch of the O'Hallorans.

Nearly seven years later, on 29 Mar 2007, I thought I knew enough about the O'Hallorans that I had the temerity to address the Clare Roots Society on the subject: see
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~pwaldron/ClareRoots/

Now, nearly another six years on, I am beginning to realise how much I still don't know about the O'Hallorans ...

-----

My transcriptions in 2000 included the following one from a large railed plot on the left immediately inside the gate:

"Erected
by
John & Patrick O'Halloran
to the memory of their families
Hanora
wife of Patrick O'Halloran
died March 9th 1869
aged 24 years
Martin
son of John O'Halloran
died May 19th 1869 aged 17 years
also his beloved wife
Mary O'Halloran
died April 3rd 1871 aged 56 years
May they rest in peace Amen"

No relationship between John and Patrick is specified and no addresses are given, so it meant nothing to me.

I still have a printout dated 2 Apr 2000 of what I then knew about the O'Hallorans. I knew that John O'Halloran lived in Ieverstown House (Sixmilebridge, Kilfinaghta civil parish) and that his son Patrick O'Halloran lived in Mountallon House (O'Callaghan's Mills, Clonlea civil parish). I had no dates, no first names of wives, and no reason to suspect that a father and son might have jointly erected a tombstone, or that either might have buried his wife in Quin civil parish, although each had a son who later lived in Rine townland in that parish.

There was no overlap at all between the information which John & Patrick O'Halloran had inscribed on the tombstone in the late 19th century and the information known to me on the eve of the 21st century, so I filed the notebook with this inscription away and thought no more of it.

-----

It's only taken another 12 years to accumulate enough additional evidence that I now realise that this was the grave I had heard about and was looking for! It didn't help that I originally misread the year of Hanora's death, but Anna Ryan got that right in her attempt, which is among her transcriptions at
http://www.igp-web.com/igparchives/ire/ ... s/quin.txt

The John & Patrick O'Halloran of the inscription were indeed father & son. John's sister was my GGGgrandmother.

I now wonder if it would have been normal in 1869 for a family living in two parishes neither of which even shares a land boundary (whatever about a lake boundary) with Quin parish to acquire a new plot in Quin Abbey grounds, or should I be trying to figure out whether earlier generations might have lived in Quin parish and also been buried in the same plot?

Not only was the inscription which was done some time between Mary's death in 1871 and John's death in 1884 lacking in the relevant details that any tombstone inscription should contain (addresses and relationships and maiden surnames - Hanora Ryan and Mary Nash), but I suspect that the family continued to use this plot for another 106 years without adding any further names to the inscription!

-----

I presume that the following twelve descendants and spouses of descendants of John O'Halloran were also buried in this plot:

Francis Thomas O'Halloran, infant son of Patrick and Hanora, b. 3 Mar 1869, a week before his mother's death, and whose death was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1869.

John O'Halloran himself (d. 11 Aug 1884, Ieverstown)
Patrick O'Halloran himself (d. 31 Jul 1919, Mountallon)

Peter O'Halloran (unmarried son of John d. 13 Aug 1885, Ieverstown)
Lizzie O'Halloran née Hassett (second wife of Patrick d. 16 Jan 1888, Mountallon)
Sarah O'Halloran (daughter of Patrick and Lizzie d. 7 Feb 1896 Mountallon)
John R[yan?] O'Halloran (son of Patrick and Hanora d. after 1911 census)
Patrick Francis O'Halloran (son of Patrick and Lizzie d. 30 Dec 1959)
Mary O'Halloran née Culligan (wife of Patrick Francis, date unknown)
Josephine O'Halloran (daughter of Patrick and Lizzie, died after Patrick Francis in 1959 and before Teresa in 1969)
Teresa O'Halloran (daughter of Patrick and Lizzie d. 4 Oct 1969, bur. Quin Abbey)
Delia Mary O'Halloran (daughter of Patrick and Lizzie d.30 Apr 1977, bur. Quin Abbey)

Only in the last two cases have I found newspaper death notices confirming the place of burial; I would welcome confirmation of the missing death dates and burial places for any of the others above.

-----

Seven others who are less likely to be in the plot include:

Margaret (death apparently unregistered), James (death registered Q2 1880), Letitia (death registered Q1 1884) and a second Josephine (death registered Q2 1884) (children of Patrick and Lizzie who died in infancy); there may be a cillín elsewhere where young children were buried, although these children were all baptised.

Matthew J. O'Halloran (married son of John, d. 20 Mar 1886, Ieverstown) - his widow remarried so she was probably buried with her second husband.

Thomas O'Halloran J.P. of Rine (son of John, date of death unknown) and his wife Bridget née Scanlan d. 17 Jan 1918, Rine. (They at least lived in Quin parish, and were succeeded in Rine by Thomas's nephew Patrick Francis above.)

-----

Delia Mary O'Halloran who died in 1977 appears to have been the last of the surname descended from her grandfather John, and indeed from John's father, whose first name remains unknown to me. There are many living descendants of John O'Halloran with other surnames - mostly Dundons, Fitzgeralds, Macinerneys, Kellys and Robinses. I have recorded 289 descendants (living and deceased) to date.

-----

I suspect for many reasons that Hanora above, née Ryan of Cappamore (co. Limerick), was a sister of her contemporary Kate Quinlivan of Ballyroughan in Quin parish, also née Ryan of Cappamore. Kate's husband James was also buried at Quin Abbey, on 24 Apr 1904, and presumably Kate also was, but Anna Ryan's transcriptions do not include the Quinlivans. (See Quinlivan of Ballyroughan thread at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3873 for more on this family.)

-----

Three important morals for genealogists can be drawn from this story:

1. Give full details on tombstone inscriptions.
2. Don't wait a hundred years to update tombstone inscriptions if a grave is re-used.
3. Re-read your old genealogy notebooks regularly, as something that did not register first time round may become highly significant in the light of new information.


Last edited by pwaldron on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:37 am 
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This may or may not add to your knowledge or provide a lead for new information, but it certainly relates to the involved family.

Sharon C.
Attachment:
O'H, John the father d. 1884.jpg
O'H, John the father d. 1884.jpg [ 32.64 KiB | Viewed 5109 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Location: Ballina, Killaloe
Many thanks, Sharon. I missed that one. It's definitely the John O'Halloran who erected the Quin tombstone.

I'm not sure whether it's better than the Clare Journal report of John O'Halloran's death on Monday evening, 11 Aug 1884, which unfortunately provided absolutely no genealogical information:

`DEATHS
O'HALLORAN - This morning, at his residence,
Sixmile-bridge, Mr. John O'Halloran, at an
advanced age. Deceased gentleman had been
in declining health for some time, and his death
was not unexpected. He had always borne[?] the
character of an upright, and honest man, and
by his strict integrity, industry and zeal in the
business of life, may be said to have been
highly successful as one of our self made men.'

The genealogical information in the Irish American Weekly appears to be wrong; Fr. John O'Halloran lived until 9 Mar 1924, so should not be described as `late'!

My search for Fr John's grave is another long story ...

I knew he died as Parish Priest of Youghalarra in county Tipperary, and expected to find him buried in the local church grounds, so checked the map (back in the days, not that long ago, when maps were pieces of paper!), discovered that Youghalarra was somewhere near the village of Newtown, which I drive through regularly, and drove every back road in the vicinity looking for a church.

Several years later, I happened to glance at the old school building beside the church in Newtown village and saw `Eochaill Arra' (obviously the Irish equivalent of Youghalarra) embossed on the plasterwork. Only then did I realise that this was one of the countless examples of a parish with two names - the ancient parish name and the modern village name. There are only about three graves in the church grounds and one of them is Fr. O'Halloran's!

The further moral which I learned from this story is that most rural Irish parishes in fact have at least three names - parish name, town or village name, and the saint(s) (etc) to whom the church(es) in the parish are dedicated. The last-mentioned name is mainly used by the diaspora, mainly in U.S. cities, who have grown up with an affiliation to their local parish and saint; it generally rings no bells with the native Irish living outside the parish.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:24 am 
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Paddy

on your acquiring a plot at Quin comment. My Quinn family lived in Inch and outside Ennis (edenvale). They are buried in a plot in Quin abbey in the abbey itself. They have a family story about how they helped the last friar. They think that their ancestors came from Drim. The vault has a modern inscription. We are sure at least one generation back from that inscription is buried in the vault and we suspect many more,

Margaret


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:04 am 
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I just thought of looking for Mary O'Halloran's death notice in the Limerick Chronicle of 4 Apr 1871 at http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/Burden,%20Bogan.pdf and duly found it, but with no mention of where she was to be interred:
`O'Halloran - On Monday, at Sixmile-bridge, Mary, the be-
loved wife of Mr. John O'Halloran, aged 56 years. Her
remains will be interred at 12 o'clock on to-morrow (Wed-
nesday) morning.'


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:24 pm 
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pwaldron wrote:
Re-read your old genealogy notebooks regularly, as something that did not register first time round may become highly significant in the light of new information.


Amen to that, Paddy. Those "orphan" info scraps in the notebooks are, for me, a bit like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle lying around the puzzle unassigned. As the puzzle takes shape suddenly one of those bits finds its place with a loud "Aaaaah !". For me, the same applies to books. I have a well-thumbed book on the history of Kilkeedy/Tubber parish ("my patch") edited by Frank Brew. Every year or so I browse through it again and each time some hitherto seemingly insignificant facts drop into place.

Paddy C.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:24 am 
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I just what might be my Halloran's listed in the 1901 census of Ireland. Patrick age 62 a farmer, wife Mary 60 Son Michael 32 and Mary 27. They were listed in Rylane, Rathclooney, Barony Bunratty, East Clare, Parish Clooney. I'm wondering if they were close to Ennis. My ggGrandfather was said to be from Ennis. I can't find their burial in Clooney gravesite but perhaps they are buried in the Halloran vault in Abbey Quin? Not much info for me yet about this area they were in the census. I also found just Patrick and Mary living in Ballyvroghaun Oughter in the 1855 griffiths. My great grandfather and his brother John and Patrick immigrated to Hornell NY and were living with a couple named Fitzgerald. Any thoughts on how they might tie in to things you know of Halloran's in Co. Clare? Thanks!! Kathleen


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Location: Ballina, Killaloe
Kathleen

Without some idea of dates for your greatgrandfather and his siblings, nobody will be able to say how they might tie in with any other Hallorans or O'Hallorans. Posting links to other freely available online information about the people you write about will also help you to get a reaction.

Google Maps says that Rylane is 13.9km by road from Ennis:
http://goo.gl/maps/4eoQg

I found what are possibly your Hallorans at
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1087122/
with another Halloran family farming in the next house at
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1087121/

The same two families are in Rylane in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ne/370244/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... ne/370243/

Between 1901 and 1911, Mary senior had died (leaving Patrick a widower) and Mary junior had left home (or possibly also died).

There are numerous (O')Halloran inscriptions in and around Quin Abbey; those I have transcribed don't mention Rylane.

Quin Abbey is 11km by road south of Rylane, again according to Google maps.
http://goo.gl/maps/xyCUJ

There is no Mary (O')Halloran in Ballyvroghaun Oughter in Griffith's Valuation (20 Sep 1855). Unless you have evidence to the contrary, the Hallorans in Rylane in 1901 and 1911 are far more likely to descend from the Joseph and Michael Halloran occupying houses in Rylane in Griffith than from the Patrick Halloran occupying a house in Ballyvroghaun Oughter. The fact that the heads of household in 1901 and 1911 are both called Patrick would prompt me to investigate if they might be first cousins named after their common grandfather; if so, then the 1855 occupiers might be their respective fathers and might be brothers. But this is pure speculation without consulting the relevant church registers and Valuation Office cancelled books.

Paddy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:47 am 
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Thank you Paddy! Yes you did find them in the Rylane census Patrick Mary Thomas and Mary. I saw alot of notes that said people lived in the area and did business in Ennis. I know there is a Thomas working on a street as a butcher i think. Looked like the area had people of means and were not liked for that. Maybe they had carriage to take them to and fro? First time i have hit on anything that even could be. Praying i am getting closer. Thanks for the links and maps. Appreciate it!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:21 pm 
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I did NOT find any Thomas Halloran or O'Halloran in Rylane in either 1901 or 1911 or in Griffith's Valuation.

Accuracy and attention to detail is a critical part of successful genealogical research. Please check and re-read what you type before you submit your message. And if you are tempted to type `I think', please wait until you have time to check your sources before you submit your message. Submitting messages riddled with errors, misquotes and inaccuracies are a waste of both the submitter's and the readers' time and will not advance your research at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:49 am 
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Paddy W. I thank you for your time and for the valuable leads to my ancestors. I still have not found the great great gr. parents to start to branch off from. Info I have is Patrick Halloran married Mary Green and they were from Ennis area. The only fact i have and date is my great grandfather was John Joseph Halloran b. 1859 immigrated 1876 to NY and Patrick Halloran b.1853 was living with P. Fitzgerald family as boarders in the 1880 census P. Fitzgerald was 49yrs.old and wife Catherine 50yrs old. I am guessing they might be relatives of Patrick and John. And i was told Patrick and John had 4-6 sisters who went to Austrailia. From only this info i search 10yrs for Patrick and Mary Green) County Clare It is the Green name that is the real kicker. I've found tons of Patrick and Mary's Halloran married. I guess i jumped on the Rylane family not proving Mary was a Green. Hoping, praying this is them. But i read Peter O' Halloran from Austrailia pdf book online and found his ancestors were from Rylane and the Mary's were not Green's.


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