Finding mother's maiden name

[jhmilltowner]

I am trying to find Andrew Hennessy's mother's maiden name.

-Andrew was born around 1839 in Co. Clare.
-I can't find any Parish record for Andrew's baptism (including research by Clare Heritage Center).
-Andrew married Ann Honan in England in 1863.
-They returned to Ireland and settled in Miltown Malbay (Anne's birthplace) around 1864 and raised 11 Children.
-Andrew appears in the 1901 and 1911 census in Miltown-Malbay.
-Andrew's Civil Registration of death is attached.

Can anyone suggest a way to look for Andrew's mother's maiden name? For example, his death record says he was an old age pensioner. Are there any records for pensioners which might show his mother’s maiden name?

Joe Hennessey

Civil Death Registration for Andrew Hennessy

Civil Death registration for Andrew Hennessy.jpg (300.6 KiB) Viewed 18072 times

[Dermo_D]

Joe,

I found a entry for Andrew Hennessy's death on familysearch.org as follows:-
Name: Andrew Hennessy
Registration District: Ennistimon
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1927
Estimated Birth Year: 1832
Age (at Death): 95
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101737
Volume Number: 4
Page Number: 127
Digital Folder Number: 4202044
Image Number: 00023
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

If this is the correct Andrew, his year of birth is 1832 rather than 1839 as you mentioned in your post. I'm not sure if that will make any difference in terms of finding Andrew's baptism record, but it might be worth a try.

Regarding his OAP records, a shot in the dark might be to ask the National Archives if they hold old OAP claim files. They hold government department records relating mainly to the period 1922–1981, so I'd guess there's at least a slim possibility they might have Andrew's OAP claim papers. I don't know who you'd contact there but their website is http://www.nationalarchives.ie/index.html and you might find some info there.

Not sure if this helps, but good luck in your research and if you try the National Archives, maybe you'd let us know if you had any success.

Regards,
Dermot

[smcarberry]

For what it may be worth, I happened to have found a few things that may be good to know while trying to determine and confirm Andrew's mother's maiden name:

1. Andrew is listed as an old-age pensioner in the census but he is not listed in the Library's index of old-age pensioners. While there may have been requirements that changed over time, the initial group of pension applicants were required to provide information so that pension staff could locate the applicant with his/her birth family in either the 1841 or 1851 census records, which were still extant before 1922. The Clare County Library website has what seems to be a very full compilation of the Clare pensioners, but inquiry with the Library might result in learning that there are other old-age pension databases that were not used for the online version and thus there might still be a resource of this type. Old-age pension applicants typically provided a mother's maiden name. Here is the link to the current online Clare pensioners' database, which is listed on in the Genealogy section under the rubric referring to the 1841 and 1851 census search forms:

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ame_ek.htm


2. Many marriage records provide the names of the groom's parents including the mother's maiden name. From the Free BMD site, there is this marriage listed in index form; further research might yield the fuller record with the details you need:

Marriages Sep 1863
Hennessey Andrew Birmingham Vol. 6d p. 290
[Birmingham is in Warwickshire and was a typical destination of a Clare-born person in the mid-1800s.]

You have not provided the names of Andrew's children but here are the only two Hennessey children born in Birmingham after 1863 for many decades:

Birth Jun 1864
HENNESSEY Robert Birmingham 6d 150

Birth Sep 1865
HENNESSEY Mary Catherine Birmingham 6d 20


3. You can circumvent that effort potentially by conferring with someone who has posted Andrew's mother's maiden name
as O'Brien, according to a Clare Heritage report. Perhaps his report was produced subsequent to any that you have on hand; the Clare Heritage Centre is not known for sharing reports among descendants. See the posted information at:

http://www.ramblinroots.net/web/ancokeefe/pafn04.htm


posted by Sharon Carberry

[jhmilltowner]

Dero_D:

Thanks very much for the info from Familysearch.org. Everyting in the record leads me to believe it is the Andrew I'm looking for.

I'm guessing Andrew's most likely birth date as 1839 from his marriage cert (Sept 1863) where he himself gave his age as 24.

My experience is that ages given in Irish records are often wrong especially with older people.

I have emailed Clare Library to see if they know of any Old Age Pension Records held in Clare before I go to the National Archives in Dublin.

Thanks again,
Joe Hennessey

[jhmilltowner]

Sharon,

I looked through the Old Age Pension returns at Clare Library and as you know, there is no Andrew Hennessy. I've emailed the Library to see if they know of any other pension records held in Clare before I try the National Archives in Dublin.

Unfortunately, I've already researched the other suggestions you gave without result. I have the names and DOBs of all the children and I've been in contact with some of the descendants but no one knows Andy's mother's maiden name. I obtained a copy of Andrew's marriage cert (attached). It only gives his father's name as John.

I've also been in contact with the poster who had Andrew's mother's maiden name being O'Brien. This was a "possibility" provided by CHC who didn't have a record of Andrew's marriage in England and is proven wrong by Andy's father being "John".

Thank you again for your suggestions. I've seen your name "all over the place" in my Clare research and I am happy to have someone with your knowledge helping me.

Joe Hennessey

[miriam scahill]

Hello Joe - I think you will find a baptismal record for Andrew at St. Joseph's Church, Milltown - which as you know is parish of Kilfarboy - on www.clarelibrary.ie - Genealogy - Church Records - it says Bapt. Records for Kilfarboy Parish start from 1831 !! There may be a Parish Office from which you could request a copy. Miriam.

[jhmilltowner]

Hi Miriam,

St. Joseph's Church, Milltown has no record of Andrew's baptism. They do have his 11 children (attached).

I've been in touch with some of the descendants of these children but no one knows Andy's mother's maiden name.

Thanks for your help,
Joe Hennessey

[smcarberry]

I am supposing that the records of St. Peter's Church in Birmingham, England, have also been consulted for the parish entry of the Sep 1863 marriage, as you seem to have gone every standard step so far.

I went back into Google Books to get the relevant section of hn Grenham's book on the availability of old-age pension records. See the screenshot below. Prospects don't look good, but there is mention of miscellaneous records that could be pursued. Here's the title of that book: Tracing Your Irish Ancestors: The Complete Guide.


I assume that you view John and Bridget Hennessey in the Clare parish baptisms as sponsors to be Andrew's parents, and so you have been locating death registrations for them and seeing if the details fit your family. Finding the death date for Bridget could lead to a news item, which might contain names of mourners. Likewise finding her gravestone near others that are already on your radar as being possible siblings is a potentially useful direction, but your thoroughness has already included these steps, I imagine.

I should mention that some Clare families are fortunate to be included in pedigrees donated to the Genealogical Office (now consolidated with the National Library, Dublin) and that staff there offer an in-person consultation session, as a guide to the manuscript collection holding such pedigrees and similar papers, as well as an overview of likely resources for research. Since you plan to be in Dublin for NAI research, a visit to the National Library could be done as well.

Sharon Carberry

Grenham p. 21

Old age pension papers, p.jpg (68.52 KiB) Viewed 18001 times

[pwaldron]

A few ideas:

1. How has it come about that Old Age Pension Applications which relied on a search of the 1841 or 1851 census returns for proof of age are widely available, but those where a baptismal certificate (the only alternative for those born before 1864) was available as proof of age are not readily available?

2. The index entry posted by Dermot merely points to the death certificate which had already been posted by Joe and will not lead to any additional information.

3. Andrew Hennessy may have been born before the start of surviving parish registers, but may have had younger siblings born after the start of surviving parish registers. So any family with father John Hennessy having children baptised in Clare in the 1830s or 1840s should be of interest.

4. I have found several cases in which a baptismal sponsor for the first child was a grandmother, more often the maternal grandmother, listed by her maiden name. Have you identified Mary Kinnucane? Is there such a surname or is it a mistranscription of Finnucane?

5. Although there is no Andrew Hennessy jr. in the CHC list of children of Andrew sr. and Anne Honan, the parents probably followed the traditional naming patterns and called their first two daughters Bridget and Mary after their two grandmothers.

6. There might be a report of Andrew's funeral in the Clare Champion of 1926 or 1927 listing the chief mourners at his funeral, which might give further clues.

Paddy

[jhmilltowner]

Sharon & Paddy,

Thanks again for your help.

Andrew was born in Clare per 1901 census. I don’t know where in Clare but from my own research of Parish Records and Clare Heritage Center I’ve yet to discover any record of his baptism. I suspect he was born in a Parish where the records don’t go back far enough. When he and his wife Ann returned from England they settled in Miltown Malbay which was Ann's "home town" possibly not his.

I have not consulted the records of St. Peter’s Church, Birmingham. I didn’t think to do this although I have found in other cases that the actual record has more info than appears on the cert. This is something I will have to pursue.

As to the John & Bridget Hennessy who appear as sponsors, I do think they might be Andrew’s parents but I’m very suspicious since I don’t know if it was customary for parents to be sponsors at their grand child’s baptism. It may be more likely that they are Aunt and Uncle to Andrew.

Also, unfortunately, I don’t plan to be in Dublin anytime soon. I only meant that I would be directing my research there from here in PA.

Besides Andrew’s, I also have Civil Death Registrations for a John and Bridget Hennessey (attached) who died in Miltown Malbay. I’m going to email Clare Library to see if they will do a look-up of Obits in The Clare Champion for me.

Thanks again,
Joe Hennessey
Lititz, Pennsylvania