County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Genealogy, Archaeology, History, Heritage & Folklore

Moderators: Clare Support, Clare Past Mod

Post Reply
Kevin J. O'Brien
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:19 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by Kevin J. O'Brien » Thu May 15, 2014 2:36 am

Is anyone familiar with the Catholic records in Wigan, Lancashire, England?

The family of Michael O'Brien and Anne McInerney of Kilclehaun, Mullagh, Kilmurry-Ibrickane Parish, County Clare, Ireland moved with their children to Wigan, Lancashire, England in the early 1850's. Their daughter Honora O'Brien b 1839 married Michael O'Donohoe of Inagh, Co Clare at St Mary's RCC, Wigan, England on 5 Nov 1859.

Has anyone looked at the parish records from St Mary's Parish? I want to know if there are baptism records that are available so that I can look for a connection using the sponsors names with other Clare families in Wigam. Looking at the Census records of 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 I find that the records are full of County Clare surnames. I have another O'Brien family that lives near the family of Michael and Anne O'Brien that I hope to connect.

The O'Brien's are buried in the Wigam Cemetery and the records on-line only give the name, address, and plot number. Does anyone know if there is more genealogical information held at the cemetery.

The years I am looking at are 1850-1910.
Appreciate any help. Thanks.

Slan,
Kevin J. O'Brien
Buffalo, NY

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by smcarberry » Thu May 15, 2014 3:45 pm

Kevin,

I have briefly looked at Wigan records in the past when pursuing a possible ancestor there, dropped after seeing not much potential for a connection to my family. Looking today at usual sites that should describe record transcriptions for RC people in the mid to late 1800s, I found beautiful websites that are difficult to navigate to find mention of such info. You might contact family historians there who are Irish descendants, to find the best way to reach the records. There are transcriptions but they are scattered in nature for RC records. If you use the search engine in the World Connect section of Rootsweb and input "clare ireland" on the birth line and "wigan england" in the death line, there are four entries that result, with some obvious Clare surnames. At least two of those descendants show email addresses, one as recent as 2012 (unfortunately his only listed source was Ancestry.com). The major source of free transcriptions in the past decade has been the BMD database, link shown below.

You may want to be very clear on which St. Mary's Church you are seeking in Wigan. It turns out there are two of them near each other, both RC, as well as a Protestant one nearby. Also be aware that prior to 1837, RC couples needed to marry in an Anglican church for the marriage to be legal. The nearest such church to your target St. Mary's was All Saints, with a cemetery likewise well used by Catholics throughout the 1800s.

If you find additional resources, I hope you will post again here about those. I had thought there would be more digitized, and maybe there will be after the hubbub about the new Manchester Archives website settles, and effort can be devoted to getting records online, not just describing visiting a facility with hard-copy records.

Sharon Carberry


Descendant's posting
Polly/Mary O'Brien: Tarmon marriage 1872 to Patrick Flanagan, might be in 1881 Wigan census
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1288166974

St. Mary's, Standishgate, Wigan, parish No. 34 stmaryswigan.com
St. Mary's, Birchley Rd, Wigan, parish No. 3
http://liverpoolcatholic.org.uk/index.php?p=502

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Wigan/index.html
screenshot (below) on RC records available

Transcription effort for births, marriages, deaths, from civil registrations:
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Catholic Register index, with search engine, Manchester only at this time:
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_search.php
Wigan RC records, by year.jpg
Wigan RC records, by year.jpg (49.23 KiB) Viewed 28550 times

Kevin J. O'Brien
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:19 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by Kevin J. O'Brien » Thu May 15, 2014 5:40 pm

Sharon,

Thanks for the help. I will look into the sources and let you know it I have any success.

Slán,
Kevin

mick o
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by mick o » Thu May 15, 2014 8:37 pm

hello kevin,
on the 1911 uk cencus wigan clare born residents are recorded in the cencus with the parish of their birth.
ennis inagh ennistymon carron milltown malbay all recorded as parishs of birth.
regards michael oloughlin

mick o
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by mick o » Mon May 26, 2014 9:58 am

hello kevin
With regard to the Wigan Ince cemetery records on line if they click on the plot number it will tell you who else is buried in the same grave.

Remember most Irish were poor & were therefore buried in a shared common grave with other people who all died around the same time.
this is a good web site for wigan family history.
the wigan family and local history society web page message book.
regards.
mo

tbh
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 2:15 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by tbh » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:21 pm

I was very interested to read this post, as I am the great-grandson of Margaret McInerney, the sister of Ann McInerney who was the wife of Michael O’Brien of Kilclehane. After the death of her husband, Ann and her family settled in Wigan, Lancashire, and it was one of her daughters, Honora O’Brien, who married Michael O’Donahue in Wigan in 1859. Another daughter, Bridget O’Brien, married Michael’s brother, John O’Donahue, in Wigan in 1863. These O’Donahues were a remarkable family. James (“Jim”) O’Donahue, one of the sons of Michael O’Donahue and Honora O’Brien, became Mayor of Wigan in 1906-1907; and another, Thomas Aloysius, was a highly respected mining engineer and the author of a number of text-books on the subject.
My own great-grandmother, Margaret McInerney, married Michael McCarthy of Clohaninchy. One of their daughters, Honora (“Annie”) McCarthy, came to Wigan in the 1870s at the behest of her cousin and namesake, Honora (O’Brian) O’Donahue, where she met and married my grandfather, Thomas Francis Hegarty, whose parents had arrived in Wigan from Clare in the early 1850s.
Wigan was an attractive destination for post-Famine immigrants because of the opportunities for unskilled employment in the coal-mining and cotton-spinning industries. It also harboured an old-established catholic community which had retained its faith during penal times. The earlier waves of Irish refugees in the immediate aftermath of the Famine had tended to settle in Scholes, an area on the opposite side of the River Douglas from the town centre, in which a good deal of cheap housing had been built in the first half of the nineteenth century. But most immigration from Clare seems to have taken place in the early 1850s and subsequent years; and most of these immigrants tended to settle in areas in or close to the old town centre in the catholic parishes of St John’s and St Mary’s, whereas Scholes lay within the catholic parish of St Patrick’s.
Copies of the baptismal and marriage registers of both St John’s and St Mary’s are available on microfilm at the Museum of Wigan Life (formerly the History Shop) in Wigan and at the Lancashire Record Office in Preston. Both the baptismal and marriage records of St John’s were fairly well kept, save for a period between 1850 and 1860 when the marriage entries (or at least those which I have seen) were rudimentary and, I suspect, incomplete, Those of St Mary’s were also well kept throughout the relevant period, though there appears to be a lacuna in the baptismal register between about 1848 and 1856. But the handwriting is not always easy to decipher; and the clerics sometimes struggled to reduce into writing the names of their unlettered Irish flock.
The baptismal records of both churches provide the names of the god-parents, who would often, of course, have been close relatives; but otherwise, they give no more information than will be found on the statutory birth certificates. The marriage records almost invariably provide the father’s name of each party and quite often the mother’s Christian name, (though the practice varied over the years); but they rarely, if ever, give the mother’s maiden surname. They sometimes also provide more detailed addresses for the parties than the statutory certificates; and quite often they give the godparents’ addresses (though, once again, the practice varied). These records constitute a useful finding aid for a researcher looking for a statutory certificate and, of course, no fee is required in order to look at them. Furthermore, the additional material as to the identity of the baptismal sponsors, the Christian names of the mothers of the parties to a marriage, and the addresses of the witnesses, can sometimes provide useful clues for the elucidation of family relationships.
A particular example which may be of some interest concerns the very marriage referred to in the inquiry, namely that between Michael O’Donahue and Honora O’Brien at St Mary’s Church, Wigan on 5th November 1859. The statutory marriage certificate gives Michael’s address as 16, Adelaide Street, Wallgate, Wigan, and Honora’s, rather less informatively, simply as Adelaide Street, Wallgate, Wigan. It also names the two witnesses as James O’Brian and Bridget Whealon. Now it might be natural to assume that this James O’Brian was Honora’s brother of the same name, who was living with Michael and Honora (and her mother, Ann O’Brian) at 22, Adelaide Street, Wigan, a little over a year later when the 1861 census was taken, though the fact that he was said to have been only 15 years of age at the time might, I suppose, give rise to some doubts about the identification.
However the marriage records of St Mary’s church provide a little more information about the individuals concerned. In Michael’s case, he is said to have been living at “16 Cort”, Adelaide Street, which would seem to refer to a yard adjoining the main dwelling-house. But in 1861, his mother, Bridget O’Donahue, was residing at 16, Adelaide Street itself, together with her other children, Michael having by this time decamped to live with his mother-in-law at 22, Adelaide Street. The church records also state that Honora’s address at the time of the wedding was 23, Adelaide Street. But I think this is likely to be a mistake by the person responsible for the entry, or a transcription error on my part, as the O’Brian family were living at 22, Adelaide Street in 1861, which was on the opposite side of the street from number 23.
More importantly for present purposes, the church records also provide the addresses of the two witnesses: James O’Brian was said to be living at Robbins Lane Ends, Pemberton (a mining area just outside Wigan); and Bridget Whealon was living close to the centre of Wigan at 16, Adelaide Street, which was almost certainly the same address as the O’Donahue family, though there is a possibility that one or other was living in the court rather than the house itself.
Bridget Whelan was no longer living with the O’Donahues at 16, Adelaide Street at the time of the 1861 census, as she had gone off to get married, as will be seen. But the 1861 census does show that an unmarried man named John Whealdon, aged 29, born in Ireland, was living there as a boarder at that time. Since they both seem to have been residing with the O’Donahues at the same address at about the same time, it is highly likely that Bridget Whelan and John Whealdon were closely related, probably brother and sister, despite the rather odd spelling of John’s surname. Furthermore, since the term “boarder” was usually used to refer to someone who was living as part of the occupier’s family rather than simply lodging with them, it may well be the case that there was some family connection between these two Whelans and the O’Donahues or O’Briens.
It also seems highly probable that the John Whealdon, who was living with the O’Donahue family at 16, Adelaide Street in 1861, was the same person as the John Whelan who married Susan Campbell later that year on 14th October 1861 at St Mary’s, Wigan. According to the church records, he was living in Adelaide Street at the time of his marriage; and his father’s name was given as Michael Whelan (which, as will be seen, was the same as that of Bridget Whelan’s father). Susan Campbell was living at Barrack Yard, Wigan; and her father’s name was Patrick Campbell. The witnesses were Richard Donahoe, of Adelaide Street, and Mary Garrahee of Bottom Croft (a side street off Hallgate, Wigan). Richard was almost certainly Michael O’Donahue’s brother of the same name, who was living at 16, Adelaide Street in 1861 and who subsequently emigrated to Lowell, Massachusetts, where he died in 1911. His death certificate, incidentally, shows that the maiden name of his mother was Bridget Wrenn. The name of the other witness, Mary Garrahy, is one which typically found in the Ennistimon Union.
But it is clear from the address recorded in the church register entry for the marriage of Michael O’Donahue and Honora O’Brien that the James O’Brian who acted as a witness at the wedding cannot have been Honora’s brother of the same name. In fact, this James O’Brian can easily be identified from the same church records, since he married his fellow witness, Bridget Whelan, at St Mary’s, less than a year later, on 19th August 1860. Once again, his address is given as Robbins Lane Ends, Pemberton; and Bridget’s is recorded simply as Adelaide Street. James O’Brian’s father is named as Timothy O’Brien and Bridget Whelan’s father as Michael Whelan. The two witnesses were John Donoghue, Adelaide Street, and Anne Gallagher, Princess Street. The microfilm copy of the manuscript is not easy to decipher and I am not absolutely confident that I have accurately transcribed the name of the first witness as “John”; nor have I obtained a copy of the statutory certificate to check. But it seems highly probable that the witness was indeed John O’Donahue, Michael’s brother, who was living at 16, Adelaide Street at the time of the 1861 census less than a year later.
James O’Brian and Bridger Whelan continued to live in Pemberton for many years and had quite a large family. It is of some interest, given the widespread distribution of both surnames, that in the 1881 census they are each said to have been born in Clare. Even more interestingly, in the 1911 census schedule (which she herself signed), Bridget (Whelan) O’Brian, now a widow aged 73, but still living in Pemberton, gave her birthplace as “Annistymon”. The Clare GenMaps show that the Whelan surname was not particularly common in the Ennistimon Union; and it is tempting to infer that she may have been a member of the family of that name who came from Ailbrack in Kilfarboy. But further research would obviously be needed to confirm that hypothesis.
It is, of course, possible that James O’Brien from Clare, the son of Timothy O’Brien, became a witness at the marriage of Honora O’Brien from Clare, the daughter of Michael O’Brien, simply because he was a friend of the bride or bridegroom, despite the fact that he was living some distance away from them at the time. But it seems more likely that he did so because he was in some way related to Honora’s family. In this particular instance, therefore, an analysis of the information to be found in the parish records of St. Mary’s, Wigan, provides support for a family link which could not be derived from what was contained in the statutory marriage certificate.
The other James O’Brien, the brother of Honora O’Donahue, emigrated to Queensland in about 1862, where he married Ann Maguire and died in 1929 at the age of 83.
I conclude by returning to the two McInerney sisters, Ann and Margaret. I have so far been unable to establish any links between them and any other individuals of the same name or to make any obvious connection with any other family, whether in the same vicinity or elsewhere. I have, however, found two other references in the Kilmurry-Ibrickane records to individuals named McInerney who were residing in the townland of Kilclehane in the mid-nineteenth century, namely: (i) the baptism on 28th February 1840 of Elizabeth Markam, the daughter of Patrick Markam and Anne McInerney of Kilclehane, the sponsors being John Downes of Clohaninchy and Anne Macnamara of Kilclehane; and (ii) the baptism on 11th July 1840 of Elizabeth Cavanagh, the natural daughter of John Cavanagh and Bridget McInerney of Kilclehane, the sponsor being Mary Welsh of Kilclehane. There was also a man named James McInerney who was living in Quilty at about this time, together with his wife, Catherine Egan. I may very well have missed other relevant entries in the parish records. But it is perfectly possible that the McInerney sisters were not local and that they came from some other part of Clare.
Any suggestions would be more than welcome.

Kevin J. O'Brien
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:19 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by Kevin J. O'Brien » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:40 pm

TBH,

This is wonderful. Thank you so much. I will have to read this over a few times and digest the facts. My head is spinning now.

Would you please contact by email, killernanfarm@gmail.com I have some information of the McCarthy's of Clohaninchy you may be interested in.

Thank you again!
Slan,
Kevin J O'Brien
Buffalo, New York

mick o
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by mick o » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:04 pm

to tbh,
a good insight in to the irish in wigan family history
re your query on thewhelan and wheldton surname
the following extract from the clarelibrary may help
Deaths and Staff in Kilrush and Ennistymon Workhouses 1850-51

Ennistymon Workhouse
Ennistymon Workhouse was located at Lehinch, between Ennistymon and Lahinch. In 1850-51 it had accommodation for 900 people. The attached Hospital had accommodation for 50 patients.
Return of Deaths in Ennistymon Workhouse, from 25 March 1850 to 25 March 1851.
M. Kean, Clerk of Union
Charles Finucane, M.R.C.S.L.
James Shannon, M.D.
Whealon Joney 6 F Measles 6 Nov 1850 30 Oct 1850
Whealon Kate 12 F Smallpox 25 Oct 1850 3 Sept 1850
Whealon Peg 5 F Fever 6 Jan 1851 3 Sept 1850
Whelan James 16 M Diarrhoea 11 Mar 1850 26 Sept 1850
Whelan Peggy 58 F Dysentery 6 Mar 1850 27 Feb 1851
Wheylon Kate 7 F Dysentery 28 Oct 1850 12 Aug 1850 Died of dysentery. J.S.
Wheylon Mary 7 F Dysentery 6 Oct 1850 3 Sept 1850
Woods Denis 65 M Diarrhoea 3 Mar 1850 6 Dec 1850
Woods Pegg 3 F Diarrhoea 17 Mar 1850 22 Aug 1850
Yoley John 3 M Measles 3 Sept 1850 12 Aug 1850

regards michael oloughlin

mick o
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by mick o » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:43 am

hello kevin,
extract from the c b s school records ennistymon.
obrien name.

ennistymon c b s school
details for j obrien

born wigan 9 may 1893
father coal miner
start school 21 /10 1901

O'Brien (j) John 9 May 1893 Main Street Coalminer 21 October 1901 533 Wigan Fr. Hynes

regards michael oloughlin

Bernadette105
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:47 pm

Re: County Clare Irish living in Wigan, Lancashire, England

Post by Bernadette105 » Tue May 12, 2015 10:25 pm

tbh,

Your history of Immigration from Clare to Wigan is wonderful. I have spent many, many hours researching my family. My great great grandfather Michael O'Brien was married Bridget Harney (maybe Hartney) in 1854 at St. John's in Wigan. We have the official marriage certificate but no church records for them. We know from the marriage certificate my Michael's father name was James... and the witnesses were Patrick O'Bsrien and Ann O'Brien.. My great grandfather Patrick was born at 39 Adelaide St. in 1861. One month later when the census was taken the family was at 39 Victoria St. which is the next street over and if you look at an old map of Wigan it appears that Adelaide and Victoria streets shared yards on one side of the street.

I have for 6 years been trying to get our O'Briens back to Ireland. In the process I had spent many hours researching Ann McInerney O'Brien family and the John O'Brien/ Bridget Whelan family in hopes they were my family too! My brother had a DNA test and it appears that we are not directly related to Michael O'Brien ...Ann McInerney's husband. But have found a DNA connection with John O'Brien/ Catherine Mulqueeny from Miltown Malbay (Kilfarboy). I have done a tremendous amount of research with a help of a friend who lives close enough to Wigan to make visits to Wigan Historical Society. I have notes on every O'Brien family in Wigan in the St. Thomas Ecclesiastical section from the 1861 census which was the most important from an immigration stand point. I am really interested where you were able to find the historical references for the families that came from Clare to Wigan and in particular to the area around St. John's and St. Mary's. I am interested because it is the story of my family. I would like to document the stories of all the families.. There are many, many family names particularly from the west coast of Clare that are on the census records in Wigan. I have been working to make those connections as a sideways search for my family.

If you have anything you can share I would be grateful. I did find another Whelan on Adelaide St. in 1861 census... is is a Patrick Whelan who was 19 years old and living as a lodger at 35 or 39 Adelaide st. the census is a little confusing.

All the best to you and Thank you for your work,
Bernadette

Post Reply