Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Genealogy, Archaeology, History, Heritage & Folklore

Moderators: Clare Support, Clare Past Mod

Post Reply
smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:15 pm

As posted on Claire Santry's Irish Genealogy news blog, the Local Studies Centre has added a new online database for Clare residents signing a tribute to Col. Wyndham in 1844 after he distributed to them some land, undoubtedly freed up by tenants whom he evicted and/or moved out to Canada in earlier years. Here is the link: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... yndham.htm

You may recall that the Library's genealogy section also has a list of signators to another 1844 letter expressing gratitude to Wyndham's contribution to the new Fair Green in Ennis. Did this fellow have his own publicist ? I also have a letter from his Cobourg ONT former tenants, which will be added here later when I locate it. I am substituting a more formal letter from an observer of the time.

In any case, there does not seem to complete consistency among observers of the time as to the actual extent of Wyndham's largess. The parish priest said that not many of those turned out of their Wyndham tenancies actually emigrated; families tried hard to stay locally. Testimony by Henry Spaight and John Molony differs on Wyndham's practices - see attachments.

While too much of Wyndham's estate records are in Sussex, England (now catalogued), I wish someone would undertake further research and write it up. None of my people were involved, so it won't be me.

Sharon Carberry
Wyndham tenants to Cobourg 1839, letter.jpg[/attachment [attachment=1]Wyndham's scheme as of1844, per Molony.jpg
Wyndham's scheme as of1844, per Molony.jpg
Wyndham's scheme as of1844, per Molony.jpg (94.82 KiB) Viewed 12741 times
Attachments
Spaight on Wyndham, Moloney's asst emig as of 1844.jpg
Spaight on Wyndham, Moloney's asst emig as of 1844.jpg (128.15 KiB) Viewed 12741 times
Wyndham tenants to Cobourg 1839, letter.jpg
Wyndham tenants to Cobourg 1839, letter.jpg (27.22 KiB) Viewed 12741 times

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:23 pm

Just reviewed materials collected from a trip earlier this year to Dublin, including the National Archives where I copied out the below Wyndham letter in RLFC/3/1/950, not titled. So far as I know, this letter has never been published or cited, so this is the first time that the genealogy community can read Wyndham's own view in 1846 of his Irish estate management and the value of assisted emigration. SMC


Petworth Mar 24 1846 [Sussex, England]

Sir

I have received your letter [that of J.P. Kennedy, Esq.] of the 21st respecting the County of Clare – I have already thought much upon the subject and am ready to take it into further consideration.

I beg however to state that I have already set apart £5000 for the improvement of my farms in Ireland £2000 for the County of Limerick and £3000 for the County of Clare, and works to this amount have long since been decided upon, and are in progress – I have also received pressing applications for 160 full passages from persons wishing to emigrate to Upper Canada, and who are, or have been, upon my property in Ireland – This is now being carried into effect, at a cost of not less than £800 including one pound to each full grown person, on landing in the Colony – These applications come in every day, and I have no doubt of receiving many more from persons anxious to join their friends already gone, and doing (according to their own letters) remarkably well.

I hold also a considerable quantity of land in my own hands in Ireland, as model farms, where pupils in agriculture are received, as sons of my tenants, and a very considerable outlay is now going on upon one of these.

I shall be obligated to you for another copy of the printed page you sent me, as I have forwarded the one I received this day, to Ireland.

I have the honor to be Sir your obedt. servt

George Wyndham

P.S. Where removals from land are required, and especially in the present distressed state of the country, I think it will be well if the government were to adopt a properly regulated system of emigration to Canada – the home govnt [government] bearing one third of the expense – landlords one third, and the Colonial authorities the other.

[To] J.P. Kennedy, Esq. [Relief Committee secretary]
Wyndham letter, NAI catalog entry.jpg
Wyndham letter, NAI catalog entry.jpg (18.62 KiB) Viewed 12712 times

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by Sduddy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Hi Sharon

Thank you for that Wyndham letter. I think this is the letter that is cited in Chapter 13: “Colonel George Wyndham, 1st Baron Leconfield (1787-1869) and his estate in Clare”, by Matthew Lynch, in ‘Clare History and Society’ pp 289 -341 (Geography Publications, eds Mathew Lynch and Patrick Nugent, 2008), but you are probably the first to publish it.

The relevant passage (p. 307) goes: “While Wyndham had professed himself immune to public praise he was easily irritated by and intolerant of press and public criticism, particularly where, in his view, it was not justified. The fact that emigrants were simply abandoned in Canada was, however, a valid and serious cause of criticism. In fact, the future fate of most of the Wyndham emigrants from Ireland has never been followed up, unlike some of their Sussex counterparts (55). The termination of the emigrant scheme in 1847 was influenced by a lot of factors. Wyndham had always held the view that only government could implement an emigration scheme at such a level as to make a real impact on what was a national rather than a local problem. He wrote to the Relief Commission in Dublin in March 1846 suggesting the adoption of a regulated system of assisted emigration, with the government, the landlord and the colonial authority each bearing one third of the cost (56)”.

(56): Letter from George Wyndham, Petworth, to the Relief Commission, 24 March, 1846, RLFC3/1/, no. 950; Cameron and Maude, Assisting emigration, pp 291-2.

My copy of Clare History and Society – a hefty volume – I got by ordering from http://www.geographypublications.com/pr ... y-society/. I see that it costs €50, which very good value I think. The article on Colonel George Wyndham gives some background information on how George’s ancestor, Percy Wyndham, by a lucky fluke, inherited the estate of Henry O’Brien, 4th Earl of Thomond, in 1741. It was a condition of the inheritance that Percy Wyndham adopted the name O’Brien. And here’s an amusing story: “In a court case opposing the inheritance of the estate by Percy Wyndham it was argued that there was no ‘consideration’ for the inheritance, but counsel for Percy Wyndham successfully argued that it was ‘consideration’ enough that his client had to ‘lay aside the noble name of Wyndham and assume the barbarous appellation of O’Brien’”.

Thank you again, Sharon, for posting your findings on Col. George Wyndham. I, for one, am very interested.

Sheila

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:02 pm

Good catch, Sheila, and good to hear that someone used the vast resources at the National Archives for a publication on our Clare history.

I did finally find the emigrant's letter of 1844, now attached.

You may be interested in Wyndham's Canadian agent Rubridge and what he was reporting back to his boss. Those attachments have to be added in a new posting, as "the board attachment quote has been reached" on this posting. Ditto for an 1848 observation made on Wyndham's model farm at Spancilhill.

SMC
Callaghan 1844 to Denis Connell, Derrymore.jpg
Callaghan 1844 to Denis Connell, Derrymore.jpg (51.31 KiB) Viewed 12691 times

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:12 pm

I will try some workarounds to the "quote reached" bar to my uploading any more files, no matter how small in size. I have tried doing a new posting. I might have to turn off my computer, clear my cache, and come back to this site.

SMC

No, sorry, after every clearing function that I can think of, I can't do any more uploading. Maybe I can return to this subject in the future and try again.

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:23 am

Three attachments show the 1841 letter of Charles Rubridge, Wyndham's Canadian agent to receive and settle Clare immigrants in different areas of Ontario Province, as listed in parts 4 & 5 (there are 2 labeled "Pt 2" due to splitting my screenshot into smaller files for uploading here). There are Keefes in that list.

My attachment limit is reached for this posting, so I will do another for the 1848 comment on Wyndham's model farm (maybe tomorrow or thereafter, as again the board quote limit is reached after doing this posting). However, these are the files I could not upload yesterday, so thank you to Jimbo for freeing up space on the server.

Sharon Carberry
Brighton Gazette 14 Jan 1841.jpg
Brighton Gazette 14 Jan 1841.jpg (55.25 KiB) Viewed 12667 times
Rubridge pt 2.jpg
Rubridge pt 2.jpg (31.09 KiB) Viewed 12667 times
Rubidge 1841 letter, pt 2.tif
Rubidge 1841 letter, pt 2.tif (1012.77 KiB) Viewed 12667 times
Rubridge, imm.jpg
Rubridge, imm.jpg (26.29 KiB) Viewed 12667 times
Wyndham's imm fams per R.jpg
Wyndham's imm fams per R.jpg (31.88 KiB) Viewed 12667 times

smcarberry
Posts: 1281
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: USA

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by smcarberry » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:30 pm

Wyndham's model farm in Spancill Hill received favorable comment in 1848; see the attachment.
Wyndham's model farm Spancill Hill 1848.jpg
Wyndham's model farm Spancill Hill 1848.jpg (31.35 KiB) Viewed 12642 times

Sduddy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Wyndham's activities resulting in letters of the time

Post by Sduddy » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:37 am

Anyone interested in this subject will be interested in Flannan P. Enright’s article, “Pre-Famine Reform and Emigration on the Wyndham Estate in Clare” in The Other Clare, Vol. 8 (1984). This is one of the few Other Clare articles available online: http://www.duchasnasionna.eu/other_clare/journal.html (flagged on this forum by P. Waldron in 2010). You will need to scroll through “A Sixmilebridge Emigrant” in order to reach Flannan Enright’s article.

Sheila

Post Reply