Fr Laurence Browne (d.1909) of Darragh; PP Tubber & Doonbeg

[smcarberry]

I realize that the value of a Maynooth College record is small at this point, as the goal was to confirm the names of Fr. Browne's parents.
However, this short list is authoritative as it was made by the president of Maynooth College in 1862, now appearing in full on the EPPI site. I have seen in it several of the priests listed in the 1888 Sadler's directory, for which I earlier provided the Clare portion. At least this confirms the graduation year of those clergymen, including Fr. Browne.

The Clare reference in the list is to the diocese, not the town of Killaloe.

I found this list while doing Carberry research. The link to the list likely takes you to that page:
http://eppi.dippam.ac.uk/documents/1439 ... ges/371776

Sharon Carberry

Maynooth College list headings.jpg (50.35 KiB) Viewed 31493 times

Browne, L., Maynooth grad 1857.jpg (57.35 KiB) Viewed 31493 times

Maynooth students Kenny, McM.jpg (28.84 KiB) Viewed 31493 times

Kenny, J., Maynooth College, 1853 grad.jpg (38.04 KiB) Viewed 31493 times

[mgallery]

If this is of any help on the Quinlivain side I am pretty sure that this Quinlivain priest is a descendant of Laurence of Rathloobain who married Miss Kenny sister to Edmond and David Kenny.
Father Pat Quinlivain was executor of the will for Father Thomas Kenny pp of Nenagh together with Dean Kenny and Matthew Kenny solicitor in 1850
Thomas Kenny was grandson of Edmond Kenny whose sister Margaret married a Quinlivain. Cecil Kenny thought Laurence of Rathloobain. The 1793 lease makes that a strong possibility. Thomas's parents were Matt Kenny of Prospect and Miss O'Brien dau of Christopher of Ennistimon.

There are as you see Paddy two Father Quinlivains in Killaloe diocese. Are they brothers or cousins ? When you say Father Quinlivain was a chief mourner do you know which one?

On Meehan an O'Meehan was executor for a Gallery O'Dwyer will at the end of the 1800s, so was Anthony O'Dwyer of Annagh another descendant of Edmond Kenny. This may mean nothing. I do not know how these Gallery O'Dwyers are related to me but a known relative stood sponsor for their children. Meehans sent a mass card for my gt uncle Michael's funeral in 1932 again may mean nothing could be neighbours but I think possibly not.

[mgallery]

I postulate that Edward Quinlivain grandfather of the bishop is son or brother of Laurence is the same Edward Quinlivain witnessing the 1793 lease in limerick archives which the Kennys (Edmond and Michael) sign. I suspect he may be a son as Edward is a Kenny name but that is only a suspicion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://museum.limerick.ie/index.php/Det ... t_id/20212

Lease, manuscript. William Thomas Maunsell of Tervoe to Michael Kenny, merchant of Limerick, of part of the lands of Corbally at yearly acreable rent of 6.16.6, 18 June 1793. No. 17. Two sheets joined at bottom. In text: land bounded on north by land in Corbally of John Smith, on south by land of Park held by William White, on east by new road from Park to salmon weir and Mr Fosbery's land, on west by Abbey river; for lives of Michael Kenny, son of lessee, John Kenny, son of Edmond Kenny, gent of Dysert, Co Clare, and James Quinlivan, son of Lanc. Quinlivan of Rathloobain, Co Clare. Commitment by Monsell to build a bridge over the Shannon capable of passage by horse and carriage. Signed by Kenny and Monsell, with fragmentary seal in red wax. Blue revenue stamp on top l. of each sheet. On top l. R/ of first sheet: witnessed by Edward Quinlivan and John Kenny. Folded and titled on outer cover.

There is an un"holy " triangle of Kenny, kelly O'Dwyer and Gallery marriages (there are fewer of us so probably not as many know about it)

[mgallery]

Paddy

I see you had another thread on this mentioning that a Father Pat Quinlivan died in 1860. I do think he was likely to be of the same family
but here you mention another Father P quinlivan of the Australian mission ?

He is possibly the will executor for Father Kenny

Margaret
**************************************************************************
From Paddy
I am not descended from the Quinlivans, but am in correspondence with several proven, probable and possible descendants.

The proven and probable descendants of this family include farmers, corn merchants, many priests, a bishop, a mayor of Limerick, an award-winning actor, two Irish rugby internationals, a journalist and newspaper editor, the wife of an ambassador, etc. This has resulted in numerous references in print, many of them using tantalising but imprecise phrases like `near relative to' (e.g. Irish American, 11 Sep 1852, p.3) or `cousin'. Other references include blatant errors, e.g. the Old Limerick Journal of Spring 1981 at http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/Media,3939,en.pdf

(The OLJ article has two errors. Firstly, Fr. Michael Quinlivan died in 1894, not in 1904 as it states. Secondly and more significantly, his brother Laurence was not the Laurence who was Mayor of Limerick. Fr. Michael's brother Laurence married Margaret Hogan in 1861 and she was still alive in 1901 (census, Gower North townland). The Mayor married firstly Ellen Mary Kelly (d.1851) in 1850 and secondly Margretta Cullinan (d.1869) in 1863. Both errors are reproduced on p.4 of Fr. Thomas J. Morrissey's `Bishop Edward Thomas O'Dwyer of Limerick, 1842-1917' (Four Courts Press, 2003) and at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 0969816126 ).

The earliest apparent reference to this Quinlivan family that I have found is in a lease for lives at http://museum.limerick.ie/index.php/Det ... t_id/20212, dated `18 June 1793', `witnessed by Edward Quinlivan', and in which one of the lives is described as `James Quinlivan, son of Lanc. Quinlivan of Rathloobain, Co Clare'.

I am merely guessing that Rathloobain was Rathluby. Am I correct?

Declan Barron has sent me this entry from the 1825 Freeholders list for Tulla Barony:

Laurence Quinlivan, Abode - Rath, freehold- Rath, Landlord - Mrs. Comyn, Lives on lease - Edmond, John and James Quinlivan.

Is Rath the same place as Rathluby? If so, why is it listed under Tulla and not under Bunratty Upper?

I have second-hand accounts of the marriages of two daughters of Laurence Quinlivan of Ballyroughan:

1. On 14 Feb 1790, a marriage agreement was registered between Tim Killeen of Moloska and Catherine, daughter of Laurence Quinlivan of Ballyroughan

2. The Limerick Advertiser, in 1813 (date not noted), reported the marriage of John Fitzgerald Currunekeale and Miss Quinlivan daughter of Laurence, Ballyroughan

I have not yet seen either of these sources myself.

Whether Laurence lived in Rathluby or Ballyroughan, I am reasonably satisfied that he had these three children:

a) Michael of Ballyroughan (c.1780-1862):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=193 has: April 25, aged 82 years, Michael QUINLIVAN, Esq., of Ballyroughan, county Clare. This excellent gentleman was the father of the Rev. Michael Quinlivan, P.P., Kilacduan, and of the Rev. P. Quinlivan, of the Australian Mission.
Freeman's Journal 2 May 1862

b) Bridget m. (before 1810) William Meehan:
Five of their children are listed in the early Quin baptismal registers (1817-1823). Hugh Weir in Houses of Clare (1999. p.141) confirms that Father Michael Quinlivan of Gower Hall `was a first cousin of Father Meehan [c.1810-1878] of Moveen [sic, recte Moneen] at the time of the Little Ark.' (Strictly speaking, this too is just hearsay.)

c) James of Ballyroughan (c.1787-1857):
The Clare Journal of Monday 23 Nov 1857 reported the death `on Friday evening at Ballyroughan in this county, aged 70 years' of `Mr. James Quinlivan'.
The Tithe Applotment Books for Quin (1 May 1825) included:
Quinlivan Michael Part Ballyroughan Quin
Cunlivan James Ballyroughan Quin
Despite the different spellings of the surname, I believe that these were brothers.

I am altogether less certain whether the following are siblings of Michael and Bridget, or related in some other way, if at all:

1. Mrs Killeen above

2. Mrs Fitzgerald above

3. Edward Quinlivan (father of Mayor Laurence Quinlivan and grandfather of Bishop Edward Thomas O'Dwyer)

4. Mrs Jane Browne (see discussion at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1697)

5. A twice-married Mary Quinlivan, wife of Edmond Palmer of Caherdavin (d. 21 Jun 1804, children bapt. 1799 and 1800) and Michael McCarthy of Shelbourne Cottage (m.27 Apr 1808).

6. Fr. Patrick Quinlivan
Clare Journal Feb 27 1860
`Deaths
At Lahinch, on Wednesday [22 Feb 1860], after a short illness, at an advanced age, the Rev. Patrick Quinlivan, formerly P.P., of Inagh. From the beginning of his sickness which he dreaded would prove fatal, he was constantly attended by one of the Ennistymon Curates. Though comparitively a stranger, and apparently friendless - he experienced much kindness and attention from both the parochial clergy, and the people.'

All six potential siblings appear to be of roughly the same generation and in cases 3, 4 and 5 I have found some imprecise or inaccurate reference to a relationship. The inclusion of no. 6 is purely speculative, given the number of priests in later generations of the family.

[mgallery]

MARRIAGE: L and CE, February 16, 1848
Married
At the house of her father, on Sunday, by the Rev. Michael Quinlivan, (cousin to the bride), Edward Beveridge, Esq. cloth merchant, fourth son of the late Lieut. Beveridge, RHA to Maria, only daughter of Michael M‘Carthy, Esq.; Shelburne Cottage.
and also Dean John Kenny says he is related to her brother James, Dean John Kennys aunt was Margaret Kenny Quinlivan in correspondance about a row over Edward Beveridge and the workhouse supply ‘Tom Browne in 23.07.1850 Limerick Reporter and Tipperary Vindicator letter to Dean Kenny alludes to James M’Carthy being Kenny’s relation ; Kenny acknowledges relation in 27.07.1850 Limerick and Clare Examiner

[pwaldron]

Another clue to the Browne family tree:
The Clare Journal Jan 1895.
Gillespie & Browne
Jan 26, 1895 At the Parish Church, Balaha by the Rev. Laurence J. Browne PP Doonbeg uncle of the bride, Patrick Gillespie, Her Majesty's Customs, Glasgow to Margaret Frances daughter of Patrick Browne Ennis.

Patrick (50 in 1911) and Margaret F. Gillespie (46 in 1911) returned to Glasgow where they had two daughters, Mary E. (12 in 1911) and Catherine F. (9 in 1911). They were just one of six families living at 409 Paisley Road W. in 1911.

I used my last Scotland's People credits to check Catherine Frances Gillespie's birth certificate: b. 21 Apr 1901 at 78 Clifford Street, Govan; her father was an Examining Officer (H.M. Customs). The birth certificate confirms the details of the parents' marriage, apart from the date being given this time as 25 Jan 1895.

But I have still found no record of Fr Laurence Browne's mother's maiden surname.

[pwaldron]

Over four years after I started this thread, about a puzzle which had thwarted me for many years before that, I have finally found the clue which confirms that Fr. Laurence Browne's mother, Fr. Michael Quinlivan's father and Fr. Patrick Meehan's mother were three Quinlivan siblings.

Tipperary Vindicator 5 Jul 1867:
`CATHOLIC CHURCH.
CATHOLIC CHURCH, KILRUSH.
On Monday the 1st instant, a solemn Requiem Of-
fice and High Mass were offered in the Catholic
Church of Kilrush, as a Month's Mind, for the eter-
nal repose of the soul of the late Mrs. Browne,
mother of the Rev. Laurence J. Browne, C.C., Kil-
rush. The beautiful and affecting ceremonies were
carried out with great solemnity and a strict accor-
dance with the Catholic Ritual. Whilst imparting
that soul of deep feeling which gives life to the out-
ward form, they produced a thrilling effect among
the large congregation, including several or her im-
mediate relatives, assembled within the spacious
Church. The two nephews and son of the deceased:
the Rev. Michael Quinlivan, P.P, Kilmacduane, Rev
Patrick Meehan, C.C, Carrigaholt, Rev. Laurence
Browne C.C, Kilrush, officiated as High Priest,
Deacon, and Sub-deacon, assisted by the Rev. Timo-
thy Hogan, C.C, Cooraclare, as Master of the Cere-
monies. The Very Rev. Dr. Kelly, V.G, P.P, Kil-
rush, presided. The Rev. Michael Pyne, C.C,
Kilrush, and the Rev. P. Roughan, Knock, in the most
pathetic and melodious notes chanted the solemn office.
The response being given by the attending Priests.
The clergymen present in the procession were the
Very Rev. Dr. Kelly, V.G., P.P., Kilrush; the Rev.
Timothy Breen, P.P., Kilkee; the Rev. MIchael
Quinlan [sic], P.P., Kilmacduane; ...
Rev. Patrick Meehan,
C.C., Rev. Laurence J Browne, C.C, ...'

It is strange that the above article does not mention Fr. Michael Meehan, then P.P. of Moyarta and Kilballyowen. He was probably still on his three-year fundraising tour of North America. The omission leaves open the possibility that he was a half-brother rather than a full-brother of Fr. Patrick Meehan, then acting as his curate in his absence.

[Jimbo]

Paddy, here is more information on Father P. Quinlivan of the Australian Mission who you mention already as a descendant of Michael Quinlivan (c1780 - 1862):

a) Michael of Ballyroughan (c.1780-1862): April 25, aged 82 years, Michael QUINLIVAN, Esq., of Ballyroughan, county Clare. This excellent gentleman was the father of the Rev. Michael Quinlivan, P.P., Kilacduan, and of the Rev. P. Quinlivan, of the Australian Mission. (Freeman's Journal 2 May 1862)

From the Irish American Weekly (New York) of May 8, 1869 (genealogybank.com newspaper archive)

The Clare Journal of late date says : The Australian mail brought the sad intelligence of the death by drowning of the Rev. Father Quinlivan, brother of the Rev. Michael Quinlivan, P.P. , of Ballincally, and son of the late Michael Quinlivan, Esq. Ballyvaughan, in this county. The deceased rev. gentleman, previous to his college course for the foreign mission, was educated in Ennis, and many remember his gentleness of manner and the other high qualities which endeared him to friends and associates, and lament with his immediate relatives his untimely death. He was drowned while bathing at Port MacGuire.

The editor of the Irish American Weekly was Patrick J. Meehan who was a first cousin of Father Michael Meehan. So the fundraising efforts of Father Michael Meehan in America for a new church to replace the "Ark" received plenty of coverage in the Irish American newspaper. Subscribers living in New York were listed by their townland in County Clare. One interesting article written by the anonymous "A Kilrush Man" accompanied a subscriber list from 1865 and told the story of Father Michael Meehan being involved in the escape from Ireland of Richard O'Gorman in August 1848.

The Irish American Weekly of June 10, 1893 included an obituary for Rev. Patrick Meehan that stated "the deceased was the younger brother of the late Rev. Michael Meehan, Parish Priest of Carrigaholt, and of Captain William Meehan, 63d Regiment, N.Y.S. Volunteers ("Meagher's Irish Brigade"), and also first cousin of Patrick J. Meehan, of the IRISH AMERICAN."

[pwaldron]

Thanks, Jimbo.

[murf]

A report of the drowning of Rev Quinlivan appeared in the Sydney Mail (NSW : 1860 - 1871) Saturday 6 February 1869 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... -title=697

I haven't checked other newspapers.

[Jimbo]

So the Quinlivan family had five grandchildren who were Catholic priests. I wonder if this is an Irish record for the most grandchild-priests?

Paddy, on the Clare Past forum you may have read the obituary for Eugene O'Curry written by Patrick J. Meehan of the Irish American Weekly that references a "grand uncle" that was also a priest. In light of your posts about the confusion between nieces / nephews and grandchildren being reported on the census records, the two articles below give further evidence that there was a general confusion in large Irish families on how individuals were related:

Irish American Weekly of August 30, 1862
(full obituary & photo here: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=367

... Among his warmest friends at this period was the Vicar-General of the diocese of Killaloe, the Rev. Mr. Meehan (granduncle of the present writer) who was parish priest of Doonaha, the place of O'Curry's birth, and who, belonging to a family that had sacrificed everything through their steadfast adherence to the faith and national aspirations of Ireland, sympathized to the fullest degree in the feelings which the young scholar contemplated the decay which was devouring all that was valuable in our annals..

Irish American Weekly of October 11, 1862 (genealogybank.com newspaper archive)

THE LATE EUGENE O'CURRY
Carriagaholt, Co. Clare (Sept 17, 1862)

My Dear Patrick - your long and very interesting notice of the last and second last IRISH-AMERICAN of the famous Eugene O'Curry deserves for your paper the deep gratitude of every Irishman at home and abroad.

The likeness on the paper of August 30, is admirable. In the same paper you say truly that the Rev. Mr. Meehan, the patron of Eugene O'Curry, was amongst the warmest of his friends. You say "he was your grand uncle" - but he was your uncle - the brother of your father and my father; and I am now the parish priest of this parish where our uncle was P.P. at the time of his death, about forty years ago, up to which period he was the attached friend and patron of the young and promising Eugene O'Curry. Doonaha, his native place, is in my parish: and in the chapel there on this morning I had all the parish assembled at a solemn requiem Mass for the repose of his soul.

[several long paragraphs on the building of schools in his parish and the teaching of the Irish language. I suspect that his parishioners suffered through very long sermons each Sunday]

I saw a nicely written letter from poor William [of the Irish Brigade in American Civil War] to you about two months ago. I hope the poor fellow is yet alive. James wrote to me, and I wrote two letters in reply about five years ago. He did not write to me since. Indeed the war is a source of sadness to all true Irishmen. Perfidious Albion is the cause of all.

This year the crops have recovered greatly since the middle of Summer, when they were in a very bad state due to the incessant rain. Three hundred people have emigrated from this parish alone, of 7,000 population, since the beginning of the year. And the wish to emigrate is every day but increasing, notwithstanding the war. There are some in this country that will go when they arrange their families so as to be able to go conveniently - even the fee simple of the land, if given them, would not keep them at home. The best members of the families are always the first sent out, and this causes the great attraction. England will make no law for the tenant, but leave him to the agent and landlord.

I am ever, my dear Patrick, your affectionate cousin,
MICHAEL MEEHAN
P.P. Carrigaholt

P.S. - If you meet Richard O'Gorman soon, give him my warmest wishes for his increasing fame.

[pwaldron]

More on Fr. Browne and the Grogan family at
http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=6623