Dispensary and Registrar's Districts

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Jim McNamara
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by Jim McNamara » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi Paddy,

Yes, that link shows the exact CD I purchased when it went on sale. It is images of the first edition book in a PDF and very useful. Here and there the images are not perfect but still very useful. The second edition book is very expensive and if you have the first edition book or this CD, that really is all you need.

All the best
Jim
Jim McNamara
Surnames of Interest: McNamara-McGrath, Cleary-Conway

"Everyone has been made for some particular work, and the desire for that work has been put in every heart." -Rumi

pwaldron
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Electoral Divisions

Post by pwaldron » Mon May 14, 2012 8:15 pm

I have been trying to work out what townlands were in Kilrush Poor Law Union (PLU) at the time of the Great Famine in the late 1840s, which has proven a somewhat trickier task than I expected.

I am making an implicit assumption that may turn out to be inaccurate, namely that townland boundaries have not been altered since first laid down by the Ordnance Survey between 1824 and 1846 (see http://osi.ie/About-Us/History.aspx ).

Earlier in this thread, I made the equally rash assumption that the boundaries of (district) electoral divisions remained unchanged from the introduction of Poor Law Unions in 1838. (I am also implicitly assuming that 'electoral division' (ED) and 'district electoral division' (DED) are synonymous, but that too may prove a rash assumption!)

I have now learned at
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-r ... guardians/
that
The 130 Unions established in 1838 were divided into 2,049 electoral divisions (later increased to 3,438 electoral divisions when the number of Unions was increased to 163).
All this is relevant to Kilrush PLU, for one of the new Unions established c.1850 was Killladysert or Kildysert, which included parts of the original Kilrush and Ennis Unions.

According to
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Kilrush/
Kilrush PLU originally comprised 13 EDs:

Kilballyoan, Kildysert (2), Kilfidduan (2), Kilkee (3), Killard (2), Killiner, Killofin (2), Kilmacdooaun (2), Kilmihil, Kilmurry (4), Kilrush (5), Knock, Moyarta (3).

(The numbers in brackets indicate the number of Poor Law Guardians elected for each ED.)

To complicate matters further, it's not clear whether Kilmurry above refers to Kilmurry Ibrickane (which remained in Kilrush) or Kilmurry McMahon (which went to Killadysert) or to both combined.

According to
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Ennis/
Ennis PLU originally comprised 18 EDs:

Bunratty, Clare, Clondagad (2), Clonlea, Cloony, Dysert, Ennis (7), Feenagh, Inagh, Inchacronan (2), Kilconry, Kilkreest, Killoan, Kilmaley (2), Newmarket, Quin (2), Ruann, Templemaley.

According to
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Kildysart/
by the time Kildysart PLU was established, it comprised 11 EDs:

Ballynacally, Clondagad, Coolmeen, Kilchreest, Kilfiddane, Killadysert, Killofin, Kilmurry, Liscasey, Lisheen, Rinealon.

The anglicised spellings of several of these EDs are quite different from those used in 1838.

Ballynacally, Coolmeen, Liscasey, Lisheen and Rinealon were presumably each carved out of one or more of the 1838 EDs.

Looking at the 1962 map at
http://www.logainm.ie/eolas/Data/Brainse/sw-sheet.jpg
one is tempted to guess that the present day Clondagad and Kilchreest DEDs were originally in Ennis Union, and that the present day Kilfiddane and Killadysert DEDs were originally in Kilrush Union. However, it is anybody's guess which Union (or Unions) the present-day Liscasey DED was in back in 1838.

I've given up on finding the answers online, but hopefully someone reading this can help.

I thought the CSO might have an online breakdown of 1841 population statistics by townland and DED, which would help, but was disgusted to find that it has removed the useful tables that I cited earlier in this thread from its website in order
to improve the structure and manageability of the CSO website and to allow us to plan for future improvements.

murf
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by murf » Mon May 14, 2012 11:55 pm

Paddy
When researching the involvment of Murphys in the Killadysert Board of Guardians I pored over the Clare Journal meeting reports between 1851 thru to the 1880s. Elections to the boards were normally held in March and the CJ of 14 Mar 1853 for instance lists the electoral district nominees for each union. The Killadysert Union had one elected rep in each of the eleven ED's.
I don't know but presumably the Clare Journal reports go back to 1838, and may provide some of the answers you are looking for.

Kurt in S.A.
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by Kurt in S.A. » Tue May 15, 2012 12:03 am

Are the Clare Journal meeting reports available on-line?

Thanks...Kurt

pwaldron
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by pwaldron » Tue May 15, 2012 10:21 am

Kieran Sheedy's book cited above is based on the contemporary newspaper reports. However, it doesn't appear to say which townlands were in which ED either before or after the redrawing of electoral boundaries c.1850 - there's no index, which doesn't help in an 886-page book!

murf
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Location: Qld Australia

Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by murf » Tue May 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Paddy
Regarding your assumption about townland boundaries not changing, in 1902 a healthy chunk (about 40 acres) of Ballycorick south of the Owenslieve River was annexed to Innishaellaun, more than doubling that townland in size. This was a fairly major change, I'm not sure if it was an isloated one. The maps that accompany the Cancelled Land Books show townland boundary changes in different coloured inks. The couple of copies that I have show other minor changes in this same general area.

and Kurt,
The Clare Library history page features some minute books for Ennistymon http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... inutes.htm
and Kilrush
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... inutes.htm
I'm not aware of any others online.

pwaldron
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by pwaldron » Wed May 16, 2012 10:25 am

If the authorities could have done anything to make administrative divisions more complicated and confusing, they did!

JohnInMass
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by JohnInMass » Wed May 16, 2012 5:05 pm

When I first joined in to this forum (not long ago) I read through the entire list of posts, just to familiarize myself with the place. I cannot be more pleased that this thread bubbled up to the top again because I now reread it with a greater awareness of how this might relate to my Madigan ancestors.

Specifically, if I understand this correctly, the placename Labasheeda is not only a village but also a dispensary district. That dispensary district includes some 55 townlands in parts (or all) of the parishes of Kilfiddane, Killadysert, and Killofin. All of these parishes at least partly within the Killadysert union. And also, the Killadysert Union was created or carved out of the Killrush and Ennis PLU's about 1850.

This actually makes sense, however complicated it may now be. At the same time it explains something I've noticed in many US naturalization papers for those from County Clare: often the place of birth is simply "County Clare, Ireland" without a parish and/or townland (or other subdivision) given to narrow it down. There is certainly space for it on the preprinted forms in use in Massachusetts courts at the time, but in answering that question a petitioner could very well give a somewhat convoluted answer with explanation of new and former civil divisions and upon hearing such, the clerk at the court could very well have abbreviated "County Clare" as a shortcut.

Speaking of subdivisions, I notice on the 1901 census form "N" that there's a place where "sub-district" may be recorded. Are these constabulary divisions and sub-districts related in some way to dispensary districts? I went to this link to read about the 1901 census:http://books.google.com/books?id=QR9RAA ... ct&f=false
Thanks again.








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pwaldron
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Re: Dispensary and Registration Districts

Post by pwaldron » Thu May 17, 2012 12:21 am

Thanks, John, for reminding us of even more administrative divisions which have been used in Ireland!

1911 Census Form N has spaces for eleven layers of subdivision:

Parliamentary Division
Constabulary District
and Sub-District
City, Urban District, Town or Village
Parliamentary Borough
Barony
Parish
Poor Law Union

as well as for

District Electoral Division
Townland or Street
County

which are familiar from the online transcriptions.

Some of the above are relevant only in urban areas.

In the example which I am looking at as I type this ( http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 002469548/ ), the Constabulary District and Sub-district are both the same as the Poor Law Union (Cahersiveen), but the very fact that there are separate slots for them on the form surely indicates that this will not always be the case!

I think from looking at old directories that the Post Office and the Petty Sessions Courts also had their own administrative subdivisions, not asked for on census returns, which may have paid no respect to the boundaries laid out by other branches of the administration. Each branch, however, tended to use the names of the major towns and villages, like Labasheeda for example, for districts of different sizes centred around them.

Paddy

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