In Griffith's Valuation in the townland of Lisheen, Clondagad Parish there are 25 names bracketed together as being occupiers of a 31 acre allotment for which the Immediate Lessor is a Madame Dele Haye. The Description of Tenement is "Land(bog)".
Would I be justified in assuming that this was the location of a peat bog, and that these 25 "tenants" constituted a list of people with permits from the landlord (or landlady in this case) to extract peat from the site?
Murf
Occupiers of a bog
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Re: Occupiers of a bog
You would be justified in your assumption, except that in Clare (and most parts of Ireland that I am familiar with) the fuel extract from bogs (also known as `turf bogs') is known as `turf' not `peat'.
The occupiers in Griffith probably had what are known as `turbary rights' - see http://www.ipcc.ie/infoturbary.html
Would I be right in thinking that `peat' is purely an American translation of `turf'? Or are the two words used in different geographical regions of Ireland?
\pw
The occupiers in Griffith probably had what are known as `turbary rights' - see http://www.ipcc.ie/infoturbary.html
Would I be right in thinking that `peat' is purely an American translation of `turf'? Or are the two words used in different geographical regions of Ireland?
\pw
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Paddy Casey
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Re: Occupiers of a bog
The material dug from the ground and burned, e.g. for heating, is called peat in the Unified Soil Classification System (USCS) used by soil engineers (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_So ... ion_System ). The USCS evolved from the Airfield Classification System developed by Arthur Casagrande (1947) after the fundamental principles of soil mechanics had been discovered.
The peat sods which have been dug out of the ground and stacked to dry change their name to turf. Strictly speaking, the term peat is restricted to the sodden stuff in the ground but the people who cut it understandably also call it turf.
An anecdote. Some time back a farmer cousin was told that, under some new conservation regulations, he was no longer allowed to cut turf from his own bog. Since he had cut turf since he was a boy, as had his ancestors since time immemorial, he was very exercised by this new rule. However, I noticed that whenever I visited there was a nice turf fire burning. When I asked how this was, since he was no longer allowed to "harvest" his own turf, he gruffly replied that the sods were not his but "......bits I found at the side of the road....". A few months later I remarked that he always seemed to have a supply of turf "from the side of the road" but that I had never seen turf lying around the roadside myself to which he replied "Ah, well, I'm very quick, you see. As soon as a bit of turf falls onto the ground I'm there to scoop it up". Presumably that was the story he told the garda when they stopped him to enquire about the loads of turf he was carting home.
Paddy
P.S. The term The Turf is also used to designate a complex and highly regulated mammalian behavioural ritual in which the movement of money is regulated by bipeds with binoculars, notebooks and folded newspapers who watch groups of quadripeds running round a track which is surfaced with - you guessed it - turf.
The peat sods which have been dug out of the ground and stacked to dry change their name to turf. Strictly speaking, the term peat is restricted to the sodden stuff in the ground but the people who cut it understandably also call it turf.
An anecdote. Some time back a farmer cousin was told that, under some new conservation regulations, he was no longer allowed to cut turf from his own bog. Since he had cut turf since he was a boy, as had his ancestors since time immemorial, he was very exercised by this new rule. However, I noticed that whenever I visited there was a nice turf fire burning. When I asked how this was, since he was no longer allowed to "harvest" his own turf, he gruffly replied that the sods were not his but "......bits I found at the side of the road....". A few months later I remarked that he always seemed to have a supply of turf "from the side of the road" but that I had never seen turf lying around the roadside myself to which he replied "Ah, well, I'm very quick, you see. As soon as a bit of turf falls onto the ground I'm there to scoop it up". Presumably that was the story he told the garda when they stopped him to enquire about the loads of turf he was carting home.
Paddy
P.S. The term The Turf is also used to designate a complex and highly regulated mammalian behavioural ritual in which the movement of money is regulated by bipeds with binoculars, notebooks and folded newspapers who watch groups of quadripeds running round a track which is surfaced with - you guessed it - turf.
Re: Occupiers of a bog
I have heard rumours that the theft of turf from Clare bogs has reached epidemic proportions in recent years. It never occured to me before that this might arise from regulations which forbid people from burning their own turf but which say nothing about burning one's neighbours' turf!
\pw
PS: I presume the other Paddy's PS was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the only passion which rivals genealogy in this Paddy's life!
\pw
PS: I presume the other Paddy's PS was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the only passion which rivals genealogy in this Paddy's life!
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Paddy Casey
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Re: Occupiers of a bog
In my cousin's case I have no doubt that, if the garda had bothered to muddy their shoes, they would have discovered that the "..bits from the side of the road..." that he was carting back at dead of night were from his own bog and they might have reasoned that you don't need to carry a slan around with you to pick turf up from the side of the road.
Paddy
P.S. Yes, Paddy, I must admit that you were the prototypical binoculared biped I had in mind there
)) P(C).
Paddy
P.S. Yes, Paddy, I must admit that you were the prototypical binoculared biped I had in mind there
)) P(C).Re: Occupiers of a bog
Thank you Paddys for that education.
Incidentally, Paddy W since I am proudly Australian I am not prone to using American translations. As Paddy C pointed out there are other uses of the word turf. One that has become most common in this country is for those squares or rolls of cultivated grass than are lain down to establish a new lawn.
But I'll have to keep in mind that we don't "..sit beside a peat fire in the cabin..."
Murf
Incidentally, Paddy W since I am proudly Australian I am not prone to using American translations. As Paddy C pointed out there are other uses of the word turf. One that has become most common in this country is for those squares or rolls of cultivated grass than are lain down to establish a new lawn.
But I'll have to keep in mind that we don't "..sit beside a peat fire in the cabin..."
Murf