Coolisteige Castle
Moderators: Clare Support, Clare Past Mod
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:18 am
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Hi Gabrielle,
Captain William Taylor is mentioned at least twice in Limerick Archive's web site, in the Court of Claims Book. His son-in-law Sidley J. Rutlege who had married Rosanna, daughter of Capt. William and his wife Ann Royse,(M.2 July 1774) applied to be admitted a Freeman of the City of Limerick by right of marriage to the daughter of a Freeman. Capt. William Taylor was a Freeman since 25 June 1792. Sidley applied on 31 Dec. 1823.
The second son-in-law, William Rose, applied in 1825 by right of marriage to William's youngest daughter Dulcabelle whom he had married on 10 Feb. 1807.
In both cases Capt. William is referred to as the late and as having been of the 28th Regt. In 1825 his sister Dorathea was the sworn witness to the Court.
Given the dates above I think there may have been Two Capt. William Taylor, father and son perhaps, as I can't see daughters marrying some 80 years after their father's own marriage.
Cheers, Noel.
Captain William Taylor is mentioned at least twice in Limerick Archive's web site, in the Court of Claims Book. His son-in-law Sidley J. Rutlege who had married Rosanna, daughter of Capt. William and his wife Ann Royse,(M.2 July 1774) applied to be admitted a Freeman of the City of Limerick by right of marriage to the daughter of a Freeman. Capt. William Taylor was a Freeman since 25 June 1792. Sidley applied on 31 Dec. 1823.
The second son-in-law, William Rose, applied in 1825 by right of marriage to William's youngest daughter Dulcabelle whom he had married on 10 Feb. 1807.
In both cases Capt. William is referred to as the late and as having been of the 28th Regt. In 1825 his sister Dorathea was the sworn witness to the Court.
Given the dates above I think there may have been Two Capt. William Taylor, father and son perhaps, as I can't see daughters marrying some 80 years after their father's own marriage.
Cheers, Noel.
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Hi Noel
Welcome to the Clare Past forum!
I agree that there appear to have been two Capt. William Taylors in the 28th Regiment, both with connections in Limerick and south-east Clare.
Ann Royse's husband, apparently the older of the two, as he married in 1774, is also mentioned in the Limerick Standard 11 Jul 1837:
On Sunday in the temporary church, Bedford Row, by the Rev Dawson MASSY, Mr Lambert Drew GOGGIN to Eliza third daughter of Mr Sidney Ievers RUTLEDGE and granddaughter of William TAYLOR Esq Capt in her Majesty's 28th Regt
Ann Royse's husband may have been the Capt Taylor of Limerick whose son is mentioned in the Limerick Guardian and Advertiser of 17 Jun 1806:
At Clareville Galway an Wednesday 4th inst Lt William Vere TAYLOR (only son of the late Capt TAYLOR of this city) to the amiable and accomplished Miss BELLEW eldest daughter of John BELLEW Esq and niece of the late Maj Gen BELLEW with a handsome fortune.
William Vere Taylor, apparently the younger of the two, as he married in 1806, is mentioned again in the Limerick Chronicle 17 April 1852:
This morning, at Clonlara Church, by the Rev. Hastings Allen, Edward Hodges Goggin Esq., of Burton Hill, county Clare, to Agnes, daughter of the late William Vere Taylor Esq., Captain H.M. 28th Regiment of Foot.
Edward Hodges Goggin was a widower and had large families by both wives; his first family included Sarah Wilhelmina Goggin who married Thomas Myles - hence my interest in the Taylors.
I presume that your interest is in the William Taylor whose daughter Catherine m. James Vokes son of Simon at Kiltenanlea on 1 Nov 1849 and had a family including Eliza Vokes b. Limerick 5 Oct 1864 (see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... 0049131008 ) and another Eliza b. 29 Dec 1866 (see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... 0282659541 ).
\pw
(Newspaper marriage notices courtesy of Nick Reddan's website.)
Welcome to the Clare Past forum!
I agree that there appear to have been two Capt. William Taylors in the 28th Regiment, both with connections in Limerick and south-east Clare.
Ann Royse's husband, apparently the older of the two, as he married in 1774, is also mentioned in the Limerick Standard 11 Jul 1837:
On Sunday in the temporary church, Bedford Row, by the Rev Dawson MASSY, Mr Lambert Drew GOGGIN to Eliza third daughter of Mr Sidney Ievers RUTLEDGE and granddaughter of William TAYLOR Esq Capt in her Majesty's 28th Regt
Ann Royse's husband may have been the Capt Taylor of Limerick whose son is mentioned in the Limerick Guardian and Advertiser of 17 Jun 1806:
At Clareville Galway an Wednesday 4th inst Lt William Vere TAYLOR (only son of the late Capt TAYLOR of this city) to the amiable and accomplished Miss BELLEW eldest daughter of John BELLEW Esq and niece of the late Maj Gen BELLEW with a handsome fortune.
William Vere Taylor, apparently the younger of the two, as he married in 1806, is mentioned again in the Limerick Chronicle 17 April 1852:
This morning, at Clonlara Church, by the Rev. Hastings Allen, Edward Hodges Goggin Esq., of Burton Hill, county Clare, to Agnes, daughter of the late William Vere Taylor Esq., Captain H.M. 28th Regiment of Foot.
Edward Hodges Goggin was a widower and had large families by both wives; his first family included Sarah Wilhelmina Goggin who married Thomas Myles - hence my interest in the Taylors.
I presume that your interest is in the William Taylor whose daughter Catherine m. James Vokes son of Simon at Kiltenanlea on 1 Nov 1849 and had a family including Eliza Vokes b. Limerick 5 Oct 1864 (see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... 0049131008 ) and another Eliza b. 29 Dec 1866 (see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... 0282659541 ).
\pw
(Newspaper marriage notices courtesy of Nick Reddan's website.)
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Love the history given in the above dialog, I meet twice with the owners of the Castle and Mrs Moloney's husband offer to sell me the castle before I met with Mrs. Moloney herself. Mrs. Moloney was on oxygen in her care facility and we spoke briefly. The information she shared with me was that three Castles in the Limerick area were owned/constructed by the O'Moloney sept that the her castle dated back to the 14th century. She was not interested in selling the Castle and most likely had already planned to leave the castle and her 35 acre farm to the lady who cared for her, which she in fact did as I discovered a few years later on one of my many return trips to Ireland. Her Husband survived her and was allowed to live his remaining day there until his death at which time the Lady caretaker and her family move into and rehabilitated the farm house. She (Lady caretaker)offered to sell me the castle but I had subsequently read the article in the Clare journal Vol. 31 putting into question the original owners being MacNamara Sept. My later research throws doubt on MacNamara being the original owners and this castle could very possible be as Mrs. Moloney stated the 1300 era construction of the O'Moloney's. That's another story that stems from my research on the Clan O'brien battles for the throne of Thomond. Gerald Maloney/Moloney nanahohey@yahoo.com
Re: Coolisteige Castle
MOLONEY’S connection to the Knight Templar or Hospitaller orders;
Question of Moloney's ownership of Coollisteige Castle
Question regarding O’brien/Maloney Knighthood and participation in Crusades
Recorded Heads of families participating in 3rd and 4th Crusade
Irish Knighthoods & Related Subjects by Chevalier William Marmion.
Third Crusade (1187-1192) O’Brien, Conor: of Munster and many Knights/soldiers recorded by the Irish Monks of the Abby of St Peter in Ratisbon, Germandy.
Butler, a relative of Theobald, Ancestor of the Earls of Ormond, Cantwell, Sir Thomas: of Kilkenny, Irish continued all the way up to the fall of Acre in 1291.
Fitzgerald, relative of Baron of Nass; Jordon, and DeLacy, Pippard, Sir Giolbert, lord of Ardee in County Louth, Died in Crusade, Riddesford, A knight of the county of Dublin family. DeVerdon, Bertram: most significant Irish Lord on Crusade. Lord Dundalk and Cooley in County Louth.
Many of the Irish people participated directly in the late Crusade but because Irish Chieftains could care less about titles or association with royal families much history is lacking on the complete extent of their peoples participation. What is clear from Works like Herbert Wood’s “The Templars in Ireland” 1907 The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries in Ireland , Irish Knighthoods William Marmion 2002 and The Knights Templar and Ireland by Michael J. Carroll 2006, the Irish people entered and fought both indirectly under the Norman-Irish and the catholic church in the early crusade and more directly in the 3rd and 4th Crusades. It worth noting that few noble families other than O’Briens Sept which included the Moloneys actually fought in the 3rd and 4th Crusades.
Evidence abounds regarding Irish membership in many of the Orders; Knight Templar, Knight Hospitallers and Knight of St. John and many lesser known monastic orders unfortunately the Irish people have to a certain extent have buried the past dealing with the those families connected to such orders as the Knights Templier (French spelling). This is probably best explained based on the transfer of land and possessions’ held by certain families considered outlaws, not by the Irish people but by those families who aligned with Turlough O’Brien’s clan after the battle of Desert O’Dea.
Overview:
My family’s connection to the Templars became clear based on historical accounts of why the Molony’s choose to give safe harbor to Brien Roe O’Brien.
Brien Roe, then ruler of Thromond fled his nephew’s (Turlough O’Brien) armies in his quest to maintain the Throne in the area know as Munster. When Brien Roe sought safety in the Molony’s castles of Northern Limerick, he pledged to honor the tax-free status originally granted from both the ruling monarchies and the Catholic Church. Here the Molony clan and its Templar connection would have given justification for their seeking this exemption. Tragically, the time coincided with elimination of the Templar order by the Catholic Church and the English’s desire to get back at anyone who aided the Scott’s in their quest for Independence. Politic and Religion no long were the allies of the Molony Clan who chose to support the wrong O’Brien.
Historical accounts also speak of an oath of blood administered upon bells and crozies and upon relics of the Saints: Holy Eucharist was divided between them
and Brien Rue became a member of the (Templar) brotherhood sealing both the O’Molony’s , O’Grady’s and the clans of East Clair to the defense of Brien Roe’s title to the throne.
Insult to the English:
The East Clare tribes had provided both arms, armor and knights to aid Robert the Bruce In 1314 (Battle of Bannock Burn) and Edward the Bruce was subsequently sent to assist Ireland in separating from English control. The plan was to aid Brien Roe’s and the families aligned with him assuring his title to the throne and cementing Ireland connection with Scotland. Richard De Clare a fellow knight was to meet the Ui mBlod to defeat Turlough and the MacNamara at Scariff (1315). Unfortunately De Clare turned back leaving the Clare Tribes to suffer a terrible defeat at the hands of Turlough and the MacMamara clan.
The missed opportunity was that the army of Edward the Bruce, Richard De Clare and the East Clare tribes didn’t united to form a Norman-Irish front to rid Ireland of the English who were busy solidifying there connection with Turlough and the MacMamara side.
The final battle of Dysert O’Dea in 1318 is where the tribes of East Clare and Richard De Clare (Normans) were finally defeated by Turlough O’Brien and MacNamara clans. Here is where the Molony and many other chieftain of East Clare were killed.
Brien Roe, appears to have succeeded in his escape and later meets with Richard DeClare at Bunratty castle where it is said that he is duped into participating again in a ceremony/ritual which reveals his treachery and breaking of the Solemn Templar oath. He is then subjected to a peculiar death set under the book of Jeremiah for someone who had broken the sacred covenant. He is disemboweled and torn apart by horses. Later his death is attributed to his complicity in the death of Patrick Fitmaurice, Richard DeClare’s brother-in-law.
The rest is history written by the MacNamara clan who had much to gain in taking the land and castles of the defeated East Clare chieftains.
Question of Moloney's ownership of Coollisteige Castle
Question regarding O’brien/Maloney Knighthood and participation in Crusades
Recorded Heads of families participating in 3rd and 4th Crusade
Irish Knighthoods & Related Subjects by Chevalier William Marmion.
Third Crusade (1187-1192) O’Brien, Conor: of Munster and many Knights/soldiers recorded by the Irish Monks of the Abby of St Peter in Ratisbon, Germandy.
Butler, a relative of Theobald, Ancestor of the Earls of Ormond, Cantwell, Sir Thomas: of Kilkenny, Irish continued all the way up to the fall of Acre in 1291.
Fitzgerald, relative of Baron of Nass; Jordon, and DeLacy, Pippard, Sir Giolbert, lord of Ardee in County Louth, Died in Crusade, Riddesford, A knight of the county of Dublin family. DeVerdon, Bertram: most significant Irish Lord on Crusade. Lord Dundalk and Cooley in County Louth.
Many of the Irish people participated directly in the late Crusade but because Irish Chieftains could care less about titles or association with royal families much history is lacking on the complete extent of their peoples participation. What is clear from Works like Herbert Wood’s “The Templars in Ireland” 1907 The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries in Ireland , Irish Knighthoods William Marmion 2002 and The Knights Templar and Ireland by Michael J. Carroll 2006, the Irish people entered and fought both indirectly under the Norman-Irish and the catholic church in the early crusade and more directly in the 3rd and 4th Crusades. It worth noting that few noble families other than O’Briens Sept which included the Moloneys actually fought in the 3rd and 4th Crusades.
Evidence abounds regarding Irish membership in many of the Orders; Knight Templar, Knight Hospitallers and Knight of St. John and many lesser known monastic orders unfortunately the Irish people have to a certain extent have buried the past dealing with the those families connected to such orders as the Knights Templier (French spelling). This is probably best explained based on the transfer of land and possessions’ held by certain families considered outlaws, not by the Irish people but by those families who aligned with Turlough O’Brien’s clan after the battle of Desert O’Dea.
Overview:
My family’s connection to the Templars became clear based on historical accounts of why the Molony’s choose to give safe harbor to Brien Roe O’Brien.
Brien Roe, then ruler of Thromond fled his nephew’s (Turlough O’Brien) armies in his quest to maintain the Throne in the area know as Munster. When Brien Roe sought safety in the Molony’s castles of Northern Limerick, he pledged to honor the tax-free status originally granted from both the ruling monarchies and the Catholic Church. Here the Molony clan and its Templar connection would have given justification for their seeking this exemption. Tragically, the time coincided with elimination of the Templar order by the Catholic Church and the English’s desire to get back at anyone who aided the Scott’s in their quest for Independence. Politic and Religion no long were the allies of the Molony Clan who chose to support the wrong O’Brien.
Historical accounts also speak of an oath of blood administered upon bells and crozies and upon relics of the Saints: Holy Eucharist was divided between them
and Brien Rue became a member of the (Templar) brotherhood sealing both the O’Molony’s , O’Grady’s and the clans of East Clair to the defense of Brien Roe’s title to the throne.
Insult to the English:
The East Clare tribes had provided both arms, armor and knights to aid Robert the Bruce In 1314 (Battle of Bannock Burn) and Edward the Bruce was subsequently sent to assist Ireland in separating from English control. The plan was to aid Brien Roe’s and the families aligned with him assuring his title to the throne and cementing Ireland connection with Scotland. Richard De Clare a fellow knight was to meet the Ui mBlod to defeat Turlough and the MacNamara at Scariff (1315). Unfortunately De Clare turned back leaving the Clare Tribes to suffer a terrible defeat at the hands of Turlough and the MacMamara clan.
The missed opportunity was that the army of Edward the Bruce, Richard De Clare and the East Clare tribes didn’t united to form a Norman-Irish front to rid Ireland of the English who were busy solidifying there connection with Turlough and the MacMamara side.
The final battle of Dysert O’Dea in 1318 is where the tribes of East Clare and Richard De Clare (Normans) were finally defeated by Turlough O’Brien and MacNamara clans. Here is where the Molony and many other chieftain of East Clare were killed.
Brien Roe, appears to have succeeded in his escape and later meets with Richard DeClare at Bunratty castle where it is said that he is duped into participating again in a ceremony/ritual which reveals his treachery and breaking of the Solemn Templar oath. He is then subjected to a peculiar death set under the book of Jeremiah for someone who had broken the sacred covenant. He is disemboweled and torn apart by horses. Later his death is attributed to his complicity in the death of Patrick Fitmaurice, Richard DeClare’s brother-in-law.
The rest is history written by the MacNamara clan who had much to gain in taking the land and castles of the defeated East Clare chieftains.
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Collisteige Castle in my humble opinion was of an earlier date than reported in The Other Clair Vol. 31 for the following reasons: Construction in two section and its location atop a solid rock mound is the most telling, I believe that this structure was originally a Keep based on the placement atop its solid rock base and that the grounds below it were always wet and marsh-like (strategic KEEP design based on earlier battles of Strongbow) . The perimeter fighting walls attached and remnants of outlining buildings. The interior and all the photos I shot reflect that the vaulted roof with its 13th century Anglo-Normans construction techniques, the absents of both a fireplace and garderobe all indicated that as a KEEP this structure's floors were accessed by a ladder not the spiral stone staircase added possibly a century later by the Teige MacNamara. The 13th century arch and window forms of the main castle keep are significantly different than those found in the attached portion of the tower house second structure. The shoddy addition of a fireplace and garderobe to the main KEEP was undoubtably done after the MacNamara clan took the Moloney lands and castles after the battle of Desart O'Dea in 1318. Much of history is conveniently discarded and rewritten by the winners and in all likelihood that is what happened here.
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Another reference to a William Vere Taylor:
Name: John Odwyer
Birth Date: 1809
Birthplace:
Age: 44
Spouse's Name: Kate Taylor
Spouse's Birth Date: 1825
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 28
Event Date: 28 Jul 1853
Event Place: Kilfenora, Clare, Ire
Father's Name: William Odwyer
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: William Vere Taylor
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70208-5
System Origin: Ireland-VR
GS Film number: 101346
Reference ID: 2:3F5FV10
Name: John Odwyer
Birth Date: 1809
Birthplace:
Age: 44
Spouse's Name: Kate Taylor
Spouse's Birth Date: 1825
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 28
Event Date: 28 Jul 1853
Event Place: Kilfenora, Clare, Ire
Father's Name: William Odwyer
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: William Vere Taylor
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70208-5
System Origin: Ireland-VR
GS Film number: 101346
Reference ID: 2:3F5FV10
Re: Coolisteige Castle
Just a little more information on Captain William Vere Taylor of the 28th Regiment of Foot. Earlier posts give marriage details of Agnes and Kate Taylor, daughters of Captain William Vere Taylor of the 28th Regiment of Foot. There was a third daughter Dora, who married James McMahon (clergyman).
Dublin Evening Mail - Monday 24 May 1852:
May 19, at Milltown Church, James, son of James McMahon of 72 Georges St, Limerick Esq to Dora, third daughter Wm Vere Taylor, late captain in her majesty’s 28th Regiment of Foot.
James McMahon is again referred to in the announcement below.
Irish Times - Tuesday 24 October 1876:
Styles and Goggin, at St Michael’s Church Limerick, by the Rev B Jacob assisted by the Rev. J.F. McMahon, uncle of the bride, George Styles Esq, 46th Regiment, to Mary Hodges Goggin, 6th daughter of the late Edward Hodges Goggin Esq., of Burton Hill, County Clare, and granddaughter of Captain William Vere Taylor, late 28th Regiment.
Captain William Vere Taylor was the son of Captain William Taylor according to the death notice in the Limerick Chronicle - Saturday 30 April 1836:
Suddenly, on Monday, in Dublin Captain William Vere Taylor, formerly 28th Regiment, son of the late Captain Taylor, of this city.
They are linked again in the following death notice:
Morning Chronicle - Saturday 31 March 1855
On the 29 inst., at 46, Devonshire Street, Queen square, Bloomsbury, in the 72nd year of her age, Mrs Rose Rutledge, daughter of Captain William Taylor, of the 28th Regiment of Foot, and sister of the late William Vere Taylor, Captain of the same regiment.
Brendan
Dublin Evening Mail - Monday 24 May 1852:
May 19, at Milltown Church, James, son of James McMahon of 72 Georges St, Limerick Esq to Dora, third daughter Wm Vere Taylor, late captain in her majesty’s 28th Regiment of Foot.
James McMahon is again referred to in the announcement below.
Irish Times - Tuesday 24 October 1876:
Styles and Goggin, at St Michael’s Church Limerick, by the Rev B Jacob assisted by the Rev. J.F. McMahon, uncle of the bride, George Styles Esq, 46th Regiment, to Mary Hodges Goggin, 6th daughter of the late Edward Hodges Goggin Esq., of Burton Hill, County Clare, and granddaughter of Captain William Vere Taylor, late 28th Regiment.
Captain William Vere Taylor was the son of Captain William Taylor according to the death notice in the Limerick Chronicle - Saturday 30 April 1836:
Suddenly, on Monday, in Dublin Captain William Vere Taylor, formerly 28th Regiment, son of the late Captain Taylor, of this city.
They are linked again in the following death notice:
Morning Chronicle - Saturday 31 March 1855
On the 29 inst., at 46, Devonshire Street, Queen square, Bloomsbury, in the 72nd year of her age, Mrs Rose Rutledge, daughter of Captain William Taylor, of the 28th Regiment of Foot, and sister of the late William Vere Taylor, Captain of the same regiment.
Brendan